EazyRoc

Quote: Quote: What the hell is a bailout call, anyways ? Do people really believe the refs love Marvin Williams enough to "bail him out" ? The bail out call is when you know Marvin is wrong, but the refs bail him out with a foul call. How many times does Marv stumble into other players and get the call...? MOST. Huh ? A foul is a foul. Marvin doesn't have enough status to get the D.Wade treatment. Some people need to forget about their vendettas, and see things for what they are.

Quote: #1. Marvin/Speedy for Chauncey Billups. Briefly, after this trade, we line up Bibby, Billups, JJ, JS, Horf. #2. Marvin/Speedy/Bibs for Chauncey Billups/Rasheed Wallace Billups, JJ, JS, Horf, Sheed. Here's the deal. Billups is on the blocks. He's got 3 years left on his contract. He's still an excellent PG/SG. Statwise, last year was the best career he had as a pro?!! So there's no deterioation of his game yet. I believe we can actually play him WITH Acie and Bibby as an OG. His 40% shooting from outside, championship experience, pressure defense, and Mr. Big Shot awareness makes him an interesting player to have. It was said that the Bucks were looking at him for ending contracts. The only ending contracts that they have are Charlie V. Desmond Mason, and Gadzurich??? Sheed to me is one of the most dominate PF/Cs in the game. He just don't know it. My thought about this trade is that it gives our young guys some experienced guys to play with and these guys would probably like to play for Woody. I still believe that the Bobcats will eventually make a big offer for Billups. Great trades. I would definitely do both. However, I like the second one because having Rasheed would allow us to start Josh at the 3.

Quote: Have we thought about giving him a look? Magloire is a classic underachiever, and is the type of veteran we don't need. How do you go from being an All-Star to being completely irrelevant so fast ?

Quote: Quote: What I hate worse is Smoove starting at the 3. I hate the thought of Zaza or Kwame starting worse than Josh playing the 3. I'm going to have to go with Josh playing the 3. He wouldn't be able to consistently beat SFs off the dribble, and he doesn't have a back-to-the-basket game just yet, so he won't be able to post up smaller players effectively. I also think Smith would get into a lot of foul trouble guarding smaller players, as well. I think you keep the same starting lineup and bring Kwame and Zaza off the bench as your C and PF.

Does anybody have any more information on the two new hires ? Are either one of them people who can help improve the jumpshots of some of more jumpshot-deficient players ?

Quote: Quote: Quote: How powerful cap space can be. The question is... what will we do with our 15 Million dollar cap space of Bibby and our 4 Million dollar cap space of Zaza. Camby is by no means a bad player. I say we keep Bibby all season, and just let him walk at the end. That 15 mil could get us a good FA next summer. Yeah, like J-Smoove LOL You lost me.

Quote: I didn't click the link. I did see the comment about Marvin being a "bruiser" inside. You know what, that's somewhat correct. He looks awkward as heck driving to the hole but when he gets there he finishes........ at the FT line. Some will call them "bailout calls." It is what it is. Marvin scores down low, just a bit uncoventionally. What the hell is a bailout call, anyways ? Do people really believe the refs love Marvin Williams enough to "bail him out" ?

Quote: Quote: I think he's good enough to play with our first team... even if Zaza starts. So your in favor of benching Al or Smoove and Marvin just so Zaza and Kwame can start? I think he meant Kwame playing minutes with the first unit, not actually starting. At least I hope he meant that.

Quote: Quote: Our starting frontcourt actually does fine in defensive rebounding, by rebound rate (% of defensive rebounds collected), Smith is a better than avg. D rebounder for a PF and Al is a better than avg. D rebounder for a C. The problem is that our backup big men (post trade) were Zaza and Marv who are near the bottom in terms of D rebounding for PFs and Cs resepectively. Also, Childress plays 30 minutes a night and is bottom 5 in terms of defensive rebounding for SFs and top 5 for offensive rebounding which is a big reason why we are a great offensive rebounding team and poor defensive one. This is all true. What you left out, was thar Smith is one of the worst offensive rebounding starting PFs in the game. Why? Because he loves to hang out on the perimeter. With his athleticism, he could easily be a 10 - 12 rpg guy. Easily. But because he's on the outside all the time, and rarely crashes the boards unless he's already in the paint, his rebounding fluctuates wildly depending on the strength of our opponent's frontline. The same goes for Marvin. That's why the bigger frontlines seem to bully us around a bit. Those two guys have to get tougher and become scrappers, like Horford. Quick . . . when is the last time you've seen Smith catch a rebound off the rim in mid air, and slam it back home? Not that he has to do this, but I've NEVER seen him do that. Ever. But even Nate Robinson has pulled this off. ( His dunk in his rookie year @ summer league was amazing ). It's rare to see an elite level athlete like Smith not pull off something like that. But when he's 23 feet away from the goal, you see why. If we're going to continue to play Horford at the 5, Smith can't keep playing like a Rasheed Wallace/Rashard Lewis hybrid. He has to get tougher, much tougher. Play like a Shawn Kemp or a Shawn Marion. That's why that Boston series was so beneficial for these young guys. They now have an idea of the level they need to play at on a nightly basis. Never, because Josh Smith doesn't crash the offensive boards. Another thing, too. People say we were one of the better defensive rebounding teams in the league, but I'm pretty sure we were also one of the top teams in the league when it came to giving up offensive rebounds. Stat check, anyone ?

Quote: Quote: I can understand people not liking Smith because of his basketball IQ or the fact that he doesn't shoot a high enough % or something. What I can't understand is why they complain about his "10 cent head" and they say that they want to go out and get one of the least focused players in the league... Do people realize that Kaman gets as many TOs as Smith with fewer points and assists? Do people realize that they complain about Smith shooting 46% as a PF (even though he gets a lot of FTs) and then wants a C who shoots 48%, gets less FTs and less shots? The "grass is greener" movement is going strong. Thank you for supporting my point of view. Poster making an illogical argument to trade Smith for a player that is inferior to his talent because they don't like Smith. But instead of saying that they don't like Smith, they try to convince other posters that Smith is the worse player in the trade. Man up. Name names or keep your mouth shut.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: How powerful cap space can be. The question is... what will we do with our 15 Million dollar cap space of Bibby and our 4 Million dollar cap space of Zaza. Camby is by no means a bad player. I say we keep Bibby all season, and just let him walk at the end. That 15 mil could get us a good FA next summer. I haven't checked the numbers but I believe next summer we won't be able to spend more than the MLE because we won't have cap room even with Bibby's contract coming off the books. It depends on how much we spend for Smoove and Chillz. We stand to lose 20 Million with Zaza, Bibby, and Solo coming off. That can take us from 65 Million to 45 Million. So you're right, we won't be close enough to get a big free agent. I don't understand. 15 million is 15 million, we wouldn't be able to offer someone a 5/70 to make up the gap left by Bibby's expired contract ? The Knicks lose salary every year off their cap but their number is so high they can't bid on FAs (other than the MLE). To bid on an unrestricted FA, you need to be under the cap. Here is a simplistic example: If the cap is 55M and the luxury tax is 70M and we are at 68M next season, we can lose 15M off that number and we are only down to 53M. That would leave us 2M in cap room to make an offer - not enough to get a real FA. Even if we are only at 62M next year in this hypo, 15M coming off the cap would only put us at 47M and give us only 8M to bid on a FA. Ah! Ok. I was thinking that once you went over the cap, you were in luxury tax land. But there is a 15 mil gap between that. Thanks.

Quote: Quote: Exactly Northcyde people around here act like Smith is a top 15 player.He has potential but also a 10 cent head. Small forwards are easier to get than centers but i do understand the doubt in Kaman only one good year without Brand who played in 8 games. I guess Hawk fans think they can win championships with Marvin/Horford and Smoove.Well this is a mood point I doubt Kaman is available. It will be interesting to see how Marvin/Horford and Smoove grow or remain the same and the Hawk's ability to win games. I love this attitude. People hear someone say "championship teams are built around centers" so they think "hey, if we get a center we will win a championship! Lets trade Smith for Kaman!" I can understand people not liking Smith because of his basketball IQ or the fact that he doesn't shoot a high enough % or something. What I can't understand is why they complain about his "10 cent head" and they say that they want to go out and get one of the least focused players in the league... Do people realize that Kaman gets as many TOs as Smith with fewer points and assists? Do people realize that they complain about Smith shooting 46% as a PF (even though he gets a lot of FTs) and then wants a C who shoots 48%, gets less FTs and less shots? The "grass is greener" movement is going strong. As the focus of his team's offense it's only natural that he's going to turn the ball over. People don't complain because Smith is shooting 46%, people complain because he thinks he's a jumpshooter when he's not. His % would skyrocket if he just played in the post. However, that's not the point. Like northcyde said, it's all about how the players fit (theoretically, in Kaman's case). Kaman made big strides this year, and the reason he appeared to be "unfocused" is because he's dyslexic. Even with his faults, you cannot deny his value, and downplay him as if Josh Smith is so much better than him.

Horford will be just as good of a shooter as Carlos Boozer. Whether or not he surpasses or equals his offensive output depends on whether he improves his footwork and handles.

Quote: any chance we sign Kwame and Randolph? I'd do this even at the expense of Chillz..... Horford/Brown/Zaza Smith/Morris/Horford Marvin/Smith/Richardson JJ/Richardson/Bibby Bibby/Law/Claxton I think that team definitely makes the playoffs....if we could miraculously keep Chills our second team could be one of the best in the east. I wouldn't.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: How powerful cap space can be. The question is... what will we do with our 15 Million dollar cap space of Bibby and our 4 Million dollar cap space of Zaza. Camby is by no means a bad player. I say we keep Bibby all season, and just let him walk at the end. That 15 mil could get us a good FA next summer. I haven't checked the numbers but I believe next summer we won't be able to spend more than the MLE because we won't have cap room even with Bibby's contract coming off the books. It depends on how much we spend for Smoove and Chillz. We stand to lose 20 Million with Zaza, Bibby, and Solo coming off. That can take us from 65 Million to 45 Million. So you're right, we won't be close enough to get a big free agent. I don't understand. 15 million is 15 million, we wouldn't be able to offer someone a 5/70 to make up the gap left by Bibby's expired contract ?

Quote: Quote: Most of the time he passes up his shot is because he is at or around the 3 pt. line (I never understood why they had him so far away from the hoop, but hey) Whenever Horford got the ball around 17 ft, and he was open, he would shoot it. First of all that isn't true. Secondly if Horford does catch the ball out of his shooting range there is no law that says he can't take a dribble or two to get closer. Considering that his man is the opposing center playing several feet off him that shouldn't be hard to do. He got plenty of touches but too often he just didn't do anything with theml. He stood around with the ball for several seconds far more often than anyone on the team. Quote: His offensive skills are not advanced, but they aren't as bad as you make them seem. I am not saying they are bad. I am saying he is too timid to actually use them. Then Dolfan comes in and says that he isn't timid which begs the question as to why he never beats guys like Big Z or Bogut off the dribble. Either he is timid or his ball handling skills suck. I say it is because he is timid. Yes it is. I've seen a number of plays where Horford will have the ball at the top of the key, he'll looks around and eventually pass it off to Joe, Mike, or Josh Smith (though it's usually Joe or Mike). Whenever he's around 15-17 ft, and he's open, he doesn't hesitate to shoot the ball. He didn't get plenty of touches as you imply. How can he possibly get "plenty" of touches as the 5th or 6th option ? There were games when he did, and more often than not it resulted in a productive offensive night for him when he did. There is absolutely no timidity with Al Horford, it's just he doesn't have the handles to get through the lane to beat bigger players off the dribble. He's got good handles in the open court, but dribbling through/around traffic is a different story.

Quote: The guy had his career year without Elton Brand down low to take any rbs away and he didn't even finish the entire year and now he is comparable to Smoove? You speak of those stats as if they were his career numbers. One year, my bad 3/4 a year wonder is fooling you people on this board. I never compared him to Josh Smith. I just said he is a rare commodity like Josh Smith. If I say Lassie and Odie are both dogs, does that mean I'm comparing them ? I also like how you try to change the subject, instead of admitting that you could have been wrong about downplaying Chris Kaman's value/rarity in today's NBA. If Chris Kaman and Josh Smith were both on the market as UFA's, who do you honestly think would get the bigger contract ?

Quote: Quote: Could you imagine how crazy the Squawk would have been if Horford started doing what Josh Smith did and hoist up jump shots just because he was open ? Horford isn't setting up at the 3 pt line like Smith. He also shoots his jumpers far better than Smith. There is no reason for him to consistently pass up those shots when a man is several feet off him. He needs to shoot those shots because he can actually make them. That would force the opposing center to come out and guard him and then Horford could easily drive by him. Plus getting the opposing center out of the lane opens up chances to drive for everyone else. Most of the time he passes up his shot is because he is at or around the 3 pt. line (I never understood why they had him so far away from the hoop, but hey) Whenever Horford got the ball around 17 ft, and he was open, he would shoot it. Horford didn't get enough touches to even be considered timid. His offensive skills are not advanced, but they aren't as bad as you make them seem.

Quote: Quote: Quote: To Dolfan, you honestly think I can remember who posted what on this board. For you to act like you didn't see people saying they would trade Smoove for Kaman and a 1st or even Dalembert at one time is simply not being truthful. Traceman, what is your definition of overachievement for a ball player? Mines is a player who comes in with low expectations and has others who were picked ahead of him thought to succeed more. Having analyst doubt you from day one and call you a likely bust. Becoming a major contributer for a team when there were three other players picked ahead of you on your team who you are clearly better than(MW,SWChillz). Demanding a big pay raise because of your talents and being pursued more than other RFA(Okafor,Deng,Gordan,etc) even though they also were higher draft choices. Should I go on or do you get my point? As for Bibby, ZaZa and Marvin its not all about talent in wanting to replace them(though it is first on the list). Its me believing there combined 20+ mil in salary could be used for better players or players who will help fit what this team needs more right now. What's wrong with that ? Just like Josh Smith is a rare and hot commodity, so is a player like Chris Kaman. Kaman a rare player. Yeah, because every team has a 7 footer who averages 16/13/3 and can shoot FTs.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: very raw If you've been in the league 4 years and are still considered "raw" it's either because you're athletic but have no basketball skills or have both but are not very smart. Everyone talks about how great Josh is going to be, but his head might get in the way. That's why I try to point out (often) that Smith has played over 300 NBA games and like 10,000 minutes. That's not small sample nor can it be ignored because of his age. His production can't be ignored either. He averaged 17/8 while being the only guy in the league in the top 10 in blocks and steals. People excuse Horford's lack of offense since he is a rookie but he is the same age as Smith and obviously had the benefit of college instruction. Okafor averaged 15/11 in his rookie year. Howard averaged 12/10 straight out of high school. Looking at guys Horford was compared to last summer Amare averaged 13.5/9 straight out of HS. Zo averaged 20/10 with 3 blocks in his rookie year. It isnt like Horford put up huge numbers. Howard, Mourning, and Stoudemire are all future Hall of Famers. When Okafor came into the league, he was the focus of his team's offense. Those are very bad comparisons.

Quote: Quote: In fact I just watched the Boston-Atlanta games the past couple of days and saw several times where Al knocked down the outside jumper Which is exactly why HE SHOULDN'T BE STANDING AROUND WITH THE BALL 18 FEET FROM THE RIM WITH HIS MAN 5 FEET OFF HIM. The whole point of running an offense is to get open shots. The team only has 24 seconds to shoot so when Horford consistently passes up opportunities to score he is hurting the team. Could you imagine how crazy the Squawk would have been if Horford started doing what Josh Smith did and hoist up jump shots just because he was open ?

Quote: The 5/$45 million offer, would Marvin accept that? I know we all have different opinions on Marvin. I think one thing we can all agree on Marvin. We don't want to lose him for nothing. I think you offer Marvin like 5/$42. He would be dumb not to accept 9 mil a year.

Quote: To Dolfan, you honestly think I can remember who posted what on this board. For you to act like you didn't see people saying they would trade Smoove for Kaman and a 1st or even Dalembert at one time is simply not being truthful. Traceman, what is your definition of overachievement for a ball player? Mines is a player who comes in with low expectations and has others who were picked ahead of him thought to succeed more. Having analyst doubt you from day one and call you a likely bust. Becoming a major contributer for a team when there were three other players picked ahead of you on your team who you are clearly better than(MW,SWChillz). Demanding a big pay raise because of your talents and being pursued more than other RFA(Okafor,Deng,Gordan,etc) even though they also were higher draft choices. Should I go on or do you get my point? As for Bibby, ZaZa and Marvin its not all about talent in wanting to replace them(though it is first on the list). Its me believing there combined 20+ mil in salary could be used for better players or players who will help fit what this team needs more right now. What's wrong with that ? Just like Josh Smith is a rare and hot commodity, so is a player like Chris Kaman.

Quote: How powerful cap space can be. The question is... what will we do with our 15 Million dollar cap space of Bibby and our 4 Million dollar cap space of Zaza. Camby is by no means a bad player. I say we keep Bibby all season, and just let him walk at the end. That 15 mil could get us a good FA next summer.

Quote: We need to get Kwame because it will give us a legit backup at the 5 and he will allow Zaza to focus on scoring instead of trying to play defense. Funk that. ZaZa needs to worry about playing D and passing the ball.