CHORO44

I think we should play to win. The whole lottery and franchise player hope is fool's gold. I'd rather be mediocre and make the playoffs every year with a chance. Then tank in the hopes you can land a franchise player. I have yet to see the balls bounce our way in the lottery.

Perhaps what we are seeing is a mix of bad coaching and just young players without an established roll. I don't get to catch many Hawks games but I do see a bunch of King's games. Adelman was a good coach who lost his job because he couldn't win the big series. Yes he can take some blame but at the end of the day the players have to do their part. I can clearly recall when they got Artest and the man spent half the game going one on one turning the ball over or wasting the shotclock. In this scenario the team was still figuring out what Artest's roll should be. Fast forward to the Hawks and we have Woodson's terrible substitution patterns mixed in with young players still figuring out their roles. Who is the second scorer after JJ? Marvin? If that is the case why was Woodson on his ass for taking a shot at the end of the Bull's game? Then you have Josh who some nights fills up the stat sheets and other nights steals minutes. Perhaps JJ is basically saying that the Hawk's don't yet have an identity to fall back on to close games. From Woodson's press conference I got the feeling he is just as annoyed with the fact that his coaching is not translating to the end of games. We've never heard the players say they were not prepared. All we've heard from them is they don't know what to expect out of themselves and have a pattern of not closing out games. Blame both I say.

Quote: I don't imagine that Belkin will attempt to take over the franchise without significant financial backers. Most teams have minority partners who stay in the background. That is what we need, no a group of beer buddies who fly around and say "Look what I bought daddy, Iz got a basketball team." It takes a few qualities to amass wealth: strong bloodlines or business savvy. I'll give it to Belkin he knows how to read and take advantage of contracts. The opposing side of the Spirit group obviously relied on some high-powered lawyers who probably could have worded the agreement a bit clearer. The fact that savvy businessmen rely on lawyers to protect their interests is not uncommon. You calling them beer buddies and insulting their intelligence is assinine. I'll take the guys who love the team, love Atlanta, and actually reach out to the fans over a shark who doesn't care who the team is so long as he can own it on the cheap and make money off it. There are plenty of guys who are sharks that you would not want near the Hawks. Belkin's method of appeal, while supposedly legitimate, would not be acceptable to an outsider judging the contract from a viewpoint of equality. To be able to get an appraisal, strike it down, then commission the next one is obviously a flawed way of interpreting the mechanics of the operating agreement. Will Belkin prevail? Who knows. Trust me from a long-time Oakland A's fan you don't want an owner who may relocate the team. Fremont A's, Santa Clara 49'ers, and Las Vegas/Anaheim Hawks. Pray Belkin fails.

Quote: I had my rally corndog during halftime. Did you? I'm pretty sure mine is what got them to OT in the first place, but if only one more of Nicholasp27, Lascar, DJ_Money or anyone else had pitched in, we could have had the win. Does this mean the corndog magic is gone? Does it mean we stop here? No. It means we eat even more. I ate a chicken burrito...does that count?

This poster speaketh the truth with his 187 post nonetheless. He murdered all your theories and told it like it is. Props. As a lifelong patriots fan I can sympathize with the plight of your bengals but it's good to see them shining now.

Look. Harrington is an Unrestricted free agent who no longer fits with the direction the Hawks are going. We are going young, long, and with the ability and desire to play defense. Harrington has skills and is 19/8 but he gives up more on the defensive end. He simply no longer fits with what BK and Woody are trying to do. With the young guns stepping up and coming into contract years soon we can not take any significant salary back. This includes the fantasy that is Allen Iverson. To sign and trade Harrington to Indy for the exception and a pick is the right move for the Hawks. We maintain cap flexibility, get a trading chip in a draft pick, reward Al for his contribution, and give Indy a defensive black hole at the forward spot. If you thought you would have gotten a king's ransom including Bynum you are mistaken. The best you could have hoped for was Joe Smith's expiring contract and some change. Taking back Murphy or any other junk contract only hurts the Hawks long term. Why can't we just accept that a financially responsible plan is in place to let our youngs guys earn their next contract?

Quote: The bottom line to this arguement is that Zaza isn't a very good center (comparatively speaking) but he's cheap. Isn't the bottom line is that we don't know how good a center he is because he is still developing. Add that to the fact that most of our team is still developing and learning to play defense and it is hard to make an unbiases talent evaluation. I can only look at Chandler and his prototypical size and undeserving contract to realize that complete centers are rare. I think Zaza is worth his current contract but may well outplay its value this year and next. And to Walter's continues rant about the 2 SF lineup and a dominant center; let it go. Basketball is based on matchups and we currently have enough depth to mix and match lineups. We have not seen enough of MW and JS together to fully understand their strengths and limitations. They may in fact cause so many problems on the offensive end that other teams may have to substitute smaller to defend them. Blanket statements are seldom absolute.

Quote: Quote: I am getting sick and tired of the arrogance of some of you guys on here. I mean some of you crap on our players and praise the garbage on other teams. For instance Zaza put up 12 and 8 last year. Considering his salary that is a steal. He isn't the best defender in the world but you guys are acting as if he can't improve but you are ready to give half the team away for Bynum and the only thing he has everydone was dominate high school kids and dunk on a overweight, broken down, Shaq. We need to start appreciating what we have here. Zaza played hard every night and with AL gone he may very well put up 15+ and 10+ next season. But for some reason that may not be enough for you guys. Teams would love to have ZAZA. But you guys seem to overlook the major flaws that other players have (Dalembert, Magloire, Iverson, Camby, NeNE. Swift, etc. No player is perfect. Same with Marvin and Smooth. You guys get on here and run them down for what they can't do instead of looking at the fact that they are improving. But then turn right around and discuss trades that would get overpaid bums on this team and some of which don't even start for the team that they are currently on or trade for players who are on teams more talented than Atlanta and in the process making that team better and making us a mirror image of the team we trade with (Iverson). Excellent post, that's how i feel too. I too agree.

Quote: The main raps against Reef were that he was overpaid and seemed to always play for losers. Now he's a good value salary wise and hopefully someday he gets lucky enough to play for a good team, maybe even the Hawks. He does play for a good team they are called the Sacramento Kings. With Artest available for a full season and the further seasoning of Kevin Martin and Francisco Garcia this team is on the rise again.

Quote: I agree, I think Iverson would be great on this team. I am sick of us Atlanta fans being afraid to bring in anyone who is self confident and has a bit of an edge to them. I don't know about the whole edge thing, that's irrelevant in my eyes. The issues are: - Age and durability - Can he hold up? - Amount and length of contract - Will we be able to resign our young core? - Play style - Will AI dominate the ball and prevent growth from our young core There are other points and counterpoints of course. I feel you have to at least look at these top three and make a sound decision. At the end of the day I think BK, Woody, and the ownership group like the talent level and age of our core group and want to grow that instead of banking the next two years on AI. I'd rather have 8 to 9 years of JJ, JC, MW, JS, SW, SS then AI and some scrubs. Just My Opinion.

Quote: At the end of the day, because BK so skillfully let Pryz walk for nothing all we received for Nazr was a 2nd..His 5 million dollar a year salary was well in line with his ability and would not have been any burden on the Hawks..BK screwed up..Just say it..It will make you feel better.. Saying Nazr was worth $5 million is debatable. If I'm rebuilding and looking to build a team Nazr would not make my cut either. He has some decent tools and played ok with Duncan this past year but I'd rather have the capspace personally. As for Edwards some of you act like $1 million per year is a crap load of money. It's peanuts when you are rounding out a roster and need bigs who have some potential. Even the Hawks coaches say that if he can put it together he can contribute. Will he? Who knows but the fact is the talent is there. I'd rather pay him $1 million and gamble then pay Nazr $5 million. Just my opinion. Also for those of you bitching about Duhon we all know hindsight is 20/20. If have the knack to always pick the best player available in the NBA Draft at all times I'll send you my life's savings for access to your mock drafts.

Either delete this whole post or get it the f!@k out of Homecourt. I want to read about the Hawks not idiot views on American foreign policy. We never get the truth here anyways to make smart decisions with.

Quote: Wow, dude. I am very glad that your grandmother questioned the doctor in that situation. Doctors are definately not "perfect". I am starting medical school soon, and I sure hope that the other people I am going to be in med school with don't think that way. Shoot, the further I get along in school, it seems like I find out how little I actually know. PS -- I should clarify that questioning doctors can go overboard, though, because many people just refuse to listen to anyone Just make sure that you take some chiropractic classes to balance out your ideas on the human body. I've met so many doctors who have the god complex and can't see an inch past their textbooks. There are many different ways to treat the body. Also it's funny how close you, KB, and me registered. When did the new board go live? I remember the old one. Did we have to reregister?

Quote: Billy did not work out Shelden at all. I know that with 100% certainty. I was told when I called Mullin that the Hawks think that individual workouts can be overrated. The Hawks did see Shelden in the pre-draft camp in Orlando. The "promise" took place two days later on or about the 2nd of June. The Hawks draft was essentially finished at that point as far as the #5 pick. What else is there to see at that point anyways? They spend all year scouting and more than a year depending on the player's age. I would think that one personal workout isn't going to show you that much more than previous bodys of work. Yeah you might find a guy is a bit quicker when he's playing 3 on 3 versus 5 on 5. Measurements are another debatable topic but who cares if a guys standing reach is 4 inches shorter than IDEAL if he can outright play? I'm not saying Sheldon is the right pick or the wrong pick I'm just saying we need more time to find out.

Quote: Quote: KB's a doctor? He's studying to be one. Scary, isn't it? ****note to self, if ever in need of medical treatment, stay AWAY from the state of Mississippi. Leave KB alone. He is actually Billy Knight in disguise. Just reverse KB and you have BK. I agree wholeheartedly with KB actually. I'm not a BK worshipper but I agree with what he is doing. He is strategic and has a long-term plan. There are ZERO perfect GM's out there. Some really work wonders and some luck into favorable situations. I keep reading how SW is a bust but I just can't understand how that can be true after three freakin summer league games. None of us have even seen any of the games and we are supposed to believe draftexpress and espn? Come on how often is ESPN even correct about things? They are a glorified celebrity blog IMO. As much as I enjoy reading draft express you can not convince me that they are anything more than just serious fans of the nba. I will put BK's scouts head and shoulders above them. I agree with Sturt that it appears BK deviated from BPA but given our situation Sheldon fit the bill. Looking at all the draft day trades I suspect someone would have grabbed Sheldon if BK traded down to force BK's hand. Portland for one definitely seemed to employ that tactic. I'd like to give BK two more years and Woody at least one. I really think we are turning the corner and I'm glad we have a laborer in SW to develop. He will do all the unsexy things we want MW and JS to avoid.

Monta is the truth. He is small but makes up for it with incredible quickness. His stroke is pure and he can get to the rack. The kid just needs to put on a little more weight, although he looks wiry, and get more playing time. He started getting some burn towards the end of the season and to be honest although he made mistakes you can see his potential. I'd love to have him as a Hawk.

I don't know. Clipps are not trading Livingston he is their future. Walter I respect your opinion but you have turned into a ranting lunatic lately. I think we should you should write your state of the hawks and we can just sticky it at the top of the forum. Let BK have this year and next before killing him verbally. The man had a five year plan and did a total rebuild. The fruits of his labors are just ripening. Realistically his players are developing nicely and Salim and MW only had their rookie season so far. If Chillz and MW come back stronger from their core training in Canada and Josh Smith keeps improving his handle then we will be fine. Toss in a legitimate defensive PF/C in Sheldon as well as a more experienced ZaZa and Bautista and we are cooking. I really only think we need to add a Cassell or Bobby J to run the point. They are both effective on or off the ball. I prefer Bobby J due to his rebounding ability and defense. He also has a good four years left in him. I'd sign him for three and/or Cassell for 2.

Quote: Quote: Please change your avatar. i am not that interested in continually seeing your teeth. jackpot ROFLOL....

Man this is bullshit. If this goes through and BK is dumped I'm officially done. I've suffered years of ineptitude by the owners and players of this team save for a few brightpoints. Come on Stern save us. Don't make me wear the white and purple. If I do convert after 20 years of worshipping/defending the Hawks at least I'll have the comfort of having Eric Musselman as my new coach. DAMN YOU BELKIN!

Man this thread is awful. I liked JT as much as the next guy but he had a terrible attitude at the end and our team sucked. We always say we could have gotten more in trades but how do we really know what is being offereed? We don't. Maybe the JT deal was the best on the table. What if we held on to him and his attitude got worse and teams actually started offering less? I'm with KB. I like where we are and where we are headed. We are going to have a SERIOUS team next year. These young guys have heart and talent and if we get Roy or a nice Big it is over we are going playoffs. Crying over Diaw and JT makes me laugh. They weren't part of the solution here. BK blew it up and started over. I'd rather have what we do now then JT and Diaw anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

Boris Diaw has talent. He's long, agile for his size, and has good court vision. BK saw these traits and that's why he drafted him. Was Diaw perfect? No. Boris was timid and would not take the open jumper. He repeatedly would pass up shots the offense called him to take. How many times did defenses slack off of him congesting the lane even further for Reef back in the day. Woodson brought a changing of the guard and a new system in place. Boris obviously wanted to go back to his Euro system in France where passing and ball movement are more appreciated. We did not have the luxury in Atlanta because we did not have enough talent. Now he's in Phoenix in an open system where he is used regularly. I just think he has more confidence now and knows if he messes up he has four other guys who can shoot and bail hiim out. Phoenix's ability to score and put pressure on the other team allows a player to relax knowing leads can be made up. I liken Boris to Kenyon Martin. Both talented players but obviously better in certain systems. Kenyon is much more suited for an uptempo attack that the Nets ran. Sure J Kidd makes things easier as does Nash for Boris but the style/offensive philosophy makes all the difference. Boris was the right pick at his spot in the draft but the team wasn't ready for him. No shame in that.

Quote: Oh, he's only 19. To me, Marvin is only 1 yr and 12 days younger than Chris Paul. Does 1 year and 12 days make that much of a difference. Chris Paul is ROY. Marvin at 1 year, 12 days behind is expected to take 3 - 4 yrs to develop? YET, Marvin was the BPA?? I'm not sure if I buy into the age factor either. I do think it is hard to compare big men to guards, especially point guards. Diesel you seem to be firm in your rationale that MW was not the BPA. However, you should give it time before coming to such a conclusion. Perhaps give it three years and then compare the two. What if MW goes for 20 and 10 next year and CP's numbers drop? I think Billy knew AH was gone(price tag, defense) and that he needed to fill that spot. MW brought the most to the table in his eyes. With JJ on board I don't think BK is looking for a PG that dominates the ball like Paul. I think Livingston is the type of PG BK wants, excellent floor vision, length, and makes quick decisions. You don't see Livingston holding the ball, pounding it into the floor. He gets the ball and passes or makes a move. I hope BK can trade for Livingston.

Real classy. Tell someone they don't know anything about basketball because of their gender. You need a mind, not a wenis to understand sports.

Exo, I'll admit I did not get to see many of the Hawks games on my coast. I did see a few early games and a few late games and agree with your points. I'm excited to see what Marvin and Josh Smith can do on the floor together. I think they are developing nicely.

Quote: However, in the most simple to understand way, you're wrong. BK can't afford to be snooty to the fans becuase the Hawks still have one of the worst attendence records of all the sports franchises. When Mark Cuban took over in Dallas, the first thing he did is fix the arena and the second thing he did was make the team more fan friendly. Dallas fans truly feel tied to the team and when you feel tied to the team, you don't mind going out and spending money to be with the team. I don't know if I agree that the GM needs to be PR-friendly. You build fan support by winning. The Kings have some of the best fans on the planet and it is not because of Geoff Petrie. Geoff himself is very secretive and makes moves that defy convention(K-Mart, trade J Will, trade Webber). The difference is the owners do their best to promote their team and the team wins. I'm not from Atlanta so I won't profess to know what the local scene is like but the Kings started their own sports channel and their announcers also run radio shows. They get the fans tied to the players and to their announcers. The GM is never discussed. Why can't the Hawks do the same. Take BK out of the picture and promote the players and player discussions. And if you are gonna regurgitate the "well we aren't winning" theme just stop there cause BK deserves at least one more year until that chatter starts. We are still a piece or two away.