Hawks bashing -- HELP!!?!?

[ATLJA316]

my brother posted all this on my facebook page...

thinks it's hilarious when he's talking to me about the hawks...he hates em.

i wanna be able to come up with a great solid comeback for it...but it's tough

any ideas?

DIESEL!?

graymule!?

Hotlanta!?

lascar1!?

ANYYYYYYONE!?

this is what he posted:

Fact:

Over the last 5 years the hawks winning percentage? A MEASLY .327 (and that's rounding up) - their winning percentage HAS CONSISTENTLY DROPPED OVER THE LAST 3 years

FACT:

NO OTHER TEAM IN PRO SPORTS CAN CLAIM THIS - Even the Detorit Tigers have a higher winning percentage over the last 5 years with a .389

FACT:

What about point differentials? The hawks was a minus 9.70 last year - THE WORST in the league and it has only gottent worse - over the last 5 years their points for have decreased while points against has increased....

FACT:

Lets see...the last conference title was 44 years ago - only the Atlanta Falcons have gone a longer time without a conference title AND THAT WAS ONLY BECAUSE THEY WERENT EVEN AROUND in 1961.....

hmmm... last division title....1994...11 years ago....OK, not the longest drought in that area, but with wild card teams in other leagues and the fact that Basketball is second only to the NHL in the number of teams that can advance to postseason, that is still pathetic....

Let's face it, they MIGHT have potential for the upcoming season, but people have been saying that now since 97...the fact of the matter is that the team has consistently worsenned over the last 5 years or maybe more....

Let's not even talk about superstars, guys that are game changers - who was the last superstar that the hawks really had? 'Nique - didn't he retire 13 years ago?

Another fact:

Over the last 5 years the hawks have had NO guys in the top 10 in any of the major defensive or offensive categories – PPG, points, assists, FG, free throws, turnovers, rebounds (neither defensive nor offensive)

One player led the league in rebounds and blocks – Dikembe Mutombo (his last year with the hawks was in ’01) Since that season, they haven’t had ANY player AT ALL in the top 10 and maybe not even in the top 20…

This furthers the claim that they ARE IN FACT THE ABSOLUTE WORST TEAM IN THE 4 MAJOR SPORTS....but again, maybe they will do something this coming year...I predict they will improve on their 13 win season and win 15 games this year, but they will still finish DEAD LAST in the division.

did I also mention that the Hawks last year had THE SECOND LOWEST WIN PERCENT of any other team in professional sports? (the 49er's had a .125 win pct last year, which was a fluke) I might have forgotten to mention that earlier....

very tough act to follow

[Lascar78]

lascar1? lol anyway, I don't have time to get on this, but the basic fact is that we HAVE stunk for the past 5 years, there is no debating that. The fact is that the Kasten-babcock era crippled this team, and it was not until we got new management that give BK the green light to rebuild a little over a year ago that hope came back. Last year was an intentional year of sucking. The thing is, as much as we've gotten worse and worse every year, we're about to get better and better every year starting this year. If you want to argue that post, all you can really go to is that we have a pretty good franchise history (% of playoff years, 1 title, etc...), we intentionally scrapped the whole team so it's not like our losing was accidental, it was the plan, and that we have some of the best young talent in the country. We also have more dunk championships than anyone else I believe (check that we might be tied) for what that's worth.

But really, the bottom line is you can't argue on our stats for the past 5 years. The only ways to argue are either to look at the history of the franchise (pretty good), or at non-stat things. i.e. that anyone who knows hoops knows that we are turning it around and have a ton of young talent with good ownership and GM. Unfortunately that won't show up in the W/L stats for at least a year or two.

Who is your brother a fan of anyhow? You could also go after him for not knowing what it means to be a true fan, to be a bandwagonner of the latest winners if that's the case.

[Paul2Smoove]

wait it out...when we start to dominate see who is laughing

[Weez]

you could also point out that outside of ben wallace...I doubt that very many of Detroit's 'individual stats' make the top ten list.

or what exactly has occured in the past five years in terms of personnell, mgt. and ownership.

the fact that unlike football, salaries are guaranteed, thereby one bad decision must be traded or waited out.

unlike baseball, basketball is to a large degree more 'dependant' on an individual player/ their impact makes more of a difference. if he is hurt or otherwise not playing up to par...the team suffers greatly.

finally...those are the facts, and there's no denying them. we have stunk the past five years...

[Weez]

i'm sorry, but we're still not the clippers. we've tried, under poor mgt. and decisions, to 'build a contender.'

the clippers remain the single sorriest franchise in all of pro sports.

[Diesel]

Look to the Patriots!!!

In 1990 - 1995 they were god AWFUL..

In 1996, they were in the super bowl...

1997 to 2000 they went back to mediocrity or below mediocrity.

2001 they started their dynasty....

The way of sports is that there are certain Cycles... Some years, a team will be good, in some years Bad. The cycle is strongly influenced by Coaches, FAs, and GMs. Admittedly, Atlanta has not had good GMing and at one time, we had bad GMing and Bad Coaching at the same time (Babs and Lon). However, that was part of the downward cycle. JJ represents the upward swing of the cycle...

[Lascar78]

I agree 100%. And you can look at their % of playoff years to confirm that.

[Plainview1981]

Sounds like the truth to me. Like it or not, that's the

way it has been. The team set a franchise record in losses

last year by a LARGE margin.

[Weez]

it is the truth. it is harsh...

but I still say, honestly...for whatever reasons...would you rather be a Hawks fan or a Clippers fan?

[Gray Mule]

Dang, it's tough to fight stats. Hawks ARE on the bottom.

No question about that.

Under new ownership and new management, the Hawks had

two choices.

1 - Sign / trade for a star or two and put a patch or

two on an old, leaky boat. In doing this, we would have

been assured of winning more games. Maybe even making

it to the first round of the playoffs.

Hawks have been there before. We loose out in the first

round. We're good enough to get there but not good enough

to advance. Then, because of our record, we can't get

any of the top draft picks. We are stuck between being

very good and very bad.

2 - Flush. Just like a toilet. Get rid of everything.

Hawks had some good players, not great, but very good.

They were capable of getting us to to the playoffs but

no further.

This puts the team in a downward spiral. The bottom of

the league.

Hawks chose to do #2. You see the results by our record

the last couple of years. Terrible one year and hitting

the bottom last season.

Now, the good part. We don't have ANY high priced, non

preforming players.

What we do have: High draft picks for two years. An

entirely new team from the one we had that carried us

just so far and no further. Remember the flush?

The way the Hawks did things, they had to hit bottom

before they could bounce up. Try to dribble a basketball

without hitting the floor with it. You get the idea.

Last season, we hit the bottom.

Hawks have a new owner, a new GM, a new head coach and

staff and all new, young players. Our building material

for our new team means that, like a garden, we expect it

to grow and produce much. And it will.

Unlike some teams in the NBA, the Hawks team doesn't have

the worry of winning everything right away before our

stars get to old to play. We are not over the cap and

worried about paying the luxury tax.

This year is our growing season. We're on our way to

the top. The climb will not be easy, but Atlanta is

on the right road. We're growing our own. Our's are

future stars, not old players, hanging on for one more

shot before they retire.

The future looks bright! We're growing! Watch out,

here comes the NEW Hawks!!!

[Dragitoff]

I like your way of thinking Mule! So many teams say they are in a "rebuilding phase" but you never truly see them rebuilding. They bring in good, young talent, but by the time they are good enough to contribute, their contract is up and they walk. That's not rebuilding your team, that's restocking another team. Look across town at the Braves. That's how they've done what they have for so long is because they build their teams usually with players they've developed and secured services for over a long period of time. I know baseball contracts and the NBA's restrictions on rookie contracts are very different, but the concept is the same. Of course, you can sign alot of young players to long term deals and get stuck with kids that make a fair amount of money and nobody wants if they don't pan out, but that's the risk a GM takes. He's either the hero or the goat. I applaud the steps this franchise is taking towards building a good team that won't be a one and out team. They'll be strong season after season. Get the friggin' season started already.....GOSH

[OGRat]

Nobody ever said it would be easy being a Hawks fan, but there is hope for the future.

If you really want to respond, I suggest focusing on Hawks' history and future. Our current state is only part of what define us. Even he admits there was past success and that some good changes have been made.

Focus on the changes for the better, and the fact that there is a plan in place that shines a light on a better future. I expect our team to be a lot better than last year's team for the simple facts that we have more shooters and rebounders/interior D now. There is still work to be done b/c we are riding potential, but improvements have been made.

What team does he support? Is he a bandwaggoneer or a die hard fan? All teams go through cycles.

[AHF]

You can point to the Chicago Bulls as a comparable. They sucked worse than the Hawks for four of the last five years:

10 games worse in 2000-01

12 games worse in 2001-02

5 games worse in 2002-03

5 games worse in 2003-04

34 games better in 2004-05

Go back one or two more years and their record is worse:

11 games better in 1999-00 (overall 9 games better than the Bulls over a six year period)

18 games better in 1998-99 (overall 27 games better)

Your brother just cherry-picked the window to catch the Hawks at their absolute worst point in history. That said, you won't have much of a response until the team improves.