Diesel has MORE DOUBTS!!!!

[Diesel]

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2002/column...id/1389713.html

The reason I brought this article to this forum is to say this... WHo is to say that if we have a really good run that we won't get Screwed too. Surely NOBODY wants to see Atlanta in the finals. We don't have the market to appease Stern (sorta like the Kings).

Is basketball fixed?

[chillzatl]

The conspiracy theories are a joke. The kings sell out night after night. They have one of the highest attendence totals in the league. They also have TONS of fans now who live outside that area. Game 6 was a sham. But it's not because of any league mandate.

It's in the leagues best interest to have diversity. The kings are a perfect example. A team that went from having nothing to being one fo the most followed and enjoyable teams in the league. Their success has picked up the entire league. The same goes for the Mavs. They were a junk team. Winning has turned them into a legitimate draw.

The refs call the game the way they call them. It's partly the leagues fault for not punishing them when they consistantly do that (which many refs do). But they aren't telling the refs to give certain teams breaks. If they were, it would have came out already from someone on the inside. If Stern was circulating memos to the refs to call games in the favor of a team or player, someone would have seen said memo. If they were holding meetings with the refs and telling them the same, someone would have heard it. But nobody has ever had any real proof, be it physical or spoken, that the league wants games called in a teams favor.

It's easy to think that sometimes though. But people have been claiming this "conspiracy" for 30 years now, or more. Yet nobody has ever gotten anyone to admit to it, caught anyone on tape or overheard someone "in the know" talking about it or seen anything that said it.

[Diesel]

Sell outs in Arco is different than Sellouts in LA. At the gate, Arco loses about $500 per person in comparison to LA. That means that it's important that LA sells out and plays more games.

In reply to:

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It's in the leagues best interest to have diversity.

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not really? A LA and NY dynasty is much more appealing than an atlanta dynasty.

[chillzatl]

it is in the leagues best interest to have diversity. It's a simple economic fact and it holds true in every sport. People didn't bother to watch the finals for the last three years because "the lakers will win". It was the same thing that happened when the Bulls were dominant. Sure people in chicago/LA and whatever city they were playing watched, but the average basketball fan didn't bother.

And nobody is talking about an Atlanta Dynasty. You were trying to say that the league doesn't want smaller market teams to win and that's absurd. It's in their best interest to have "other teams" win and develop a history. Otherwise people just stop watching because it's the same old teams over and over again.

A simple example is the Braves. They were a crap team with little fan support until they started winning. Once they started winning they had fans everywhere they went. They were 'americas team' and were the biggest draw in baseball, home and away, for the majority of the 90's. Their winning created fan interest in every city they played and as a result the entire league benefited from it. Before people who lived in a bad teams city wouldn't bother to go see the braves because both teams sucked. Now they go see because they know they are at least going to see one team playing great ball.

I went to a hawks/kings game a few years back and it was like any other game against a bad team. You'd see a few Mitch Richmond jerseys. But not many. The omni was semi-full as was usual when a bad team came (or most teams really). I went to a recent kings game and it was like we were playing the damned knicks. A packed house with Chris Webber jerseys everywhere. Kings fans coming out of the woodwork. Winning did that for them and it benefited the Kings, Hawks and the league as a whole. DIVERSITY.

[Nique21]

I just wanted to point out, that the Braves had the title of America's Team in the 80's, because of the national coverage by TBS, and not them winning so much.

[Guest]

I'll never forget...Braves win!Braves win!Braves win!

I think it was Sid Bream that slid in home for the

game winner.Although I haven't been a Braves

fan since 1993.

[Diesel]

The League has tried diversity.

In the 70s, small market teams like:

Seattle, Portland, Milwaukee, and Washington won the NBA Championship. Diversity in those cases almost killed the League. It was not appealing to anyone. They had moved from Boston's dynasty, to the Wilt and Jerry Show, to diversity... And people lost interest. Then came D- Stern. During his reign, Boston and LA came back. Then bigger market teams stayed atop the NBA... Stern then started to carve out his teams. How does NY get Pat Ewing? How does Orlando get Penny and Shaq? How does Boston not get Tim Duncan or Keith Van Horn?? Why can't they just show the drawings on draft night? Why are a lot of games called (won or lost) by the refs?? Stern made the game about Players and not teams. So you hear more about Jordan, Bird, Isiah, Magic, Shaq, and Kobe than about there teams.

[Guest]

D -

your points are valid, to a degree. The smaller market teams did win in the 70's...coincidentally, that was also when the ABA collapsed/ fused with the NBA. It changed the league tremendously.

Scoring was at an all-time high, as was the amount of "street ball" and a marked divergence from the more "fundamental style" of play that predominated.

While I agree that it is in the Association's best interest to have the large market teams thrive, I don't think that there has been a conspiracy to do so.

This year, due to the theories and repeated scrutiny, several members of the media were invited to the ping-pong ball selection that determines the order of the draft. Stern has power, and for the most part, I think he's used it well. And while I can't argue with the 27 fourth quarter free throws in game 6 of this year's WCF, I don't think Stern plays god (some say he might try though...if so, it's been an unsuccesful attempt). Using your own analgies even, small-market San Antonio won the "Duncan sweapstakes" over historically powerful (and upper middle class market) Boston, Bowie was drafted ahead of Jordan (by small market Portland), Orlando is hardly a "large market" city, and they got Shaq (who has said Jerry West was the sole reason he went to LA).

In short, competition is good for the League, though "diversity" may not be. Stern has power, but it has been the GM's and organizations that have dictated the championships, not League mgt. Fact of the matter is, the large market teams are generally more willing to break the bank to sign a big name because they have larger fan bases and are higher expectations by the owners. Pointing that finger at Stern just doesn't hold much water.

[Diesel]

The reason San Antonio won the lottery over Boston was not about Market. It was about a coach. Rick Pitino took the Boston job because Boston had 2 lottery picks and the worst record in the NBA. Stern Screwed him. 3 yrs after Krause allowed Jordan to walk.... Stern Screwed him in all three drafts. Chicago has had the worst record but has not gotten the top pick in either of the yrs. The Media being there this yr leads to what? A draft with no real surprises.

However, there was another Small market team to come along after the collapse of the ABA that shows how the league like Big Markets.

Houston.

The Knicks were expected to beat Houston in the finals. They didn't. Then the world would rather watch OJ drive down the street than to watch the finals. Stern had to beg for Jordan to return...

[Diesel]

Who was it that stopped Miami from building it's dynasty?

Back when they signed Mourning, Howard, Owens, and Hardaway.

Surely, they would have had the best frontcourt in the game. However, Stern played a favorite for his friend who was the owner of the Bullets and he pulled the plug on Miami's free agent signing.

I just believe that Stern does a lot using the refs, using his power, using the power to change the rules of the game in order to cause certain situations to go the way he wants them to go.

[chillzatl]

All I'll say is that from a purely economic standpoint, it's suicide to not have diversity. Ask major league baseball about it.

I'm not going to argue your opinion with you. If you want to believe in some conspiracy theory, knock yourself out. I'll just keep cheering for my team and let other worry about nonsense that is impossible to prove or even come close to proving.

[Boondocks]

Well I don't know if the lottery is rigged but look at this

Rod Thorn leaves the NBA and joins the Nets, gets the 1st round pick

MJ is considering reentering the NBA, gets the 1st round pick as an extra incentive

Houston is having an extremely lousy year in attendance while they were leagu leaders, gets the 1st round pick

[Diesel]

How much viewership will the NBA get if Atlanta wins the Championship. Honestly, we are a boring team by NBA status. Again, its about players. We don't have any nationally marketable players. There would be as little interest in us as that was in Houston. Stern Love Kobe-Shaq. It's marketable. Right now, Stern is wishing for an LA- Washington finals.

However, you keep thinking that there's money in diversity? Which yrs was baseball better? The yrs that the Marlins won the championship or the yrs that the Yankees and Braves won the championship?

Diversity?

[beav]

believe in conspiracy theories, but I just knew that the wizards were going to receive the first pick when jordan went there...