NEW Espn Article w/ mention of Marvin Williams

[DeacKillsaDevil]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/col...john&id=2272094

[Lascar78]

you should post the article as most people don't have insider

However, given the fact that you're posting it, I think I'll pass and assume that it says the same thing as your other 21 posts: chris paul is god, marvin williams is a bust, and the hawks suck

[KB21]

Hollinger is an idiot. He also thinks the Hawks acquisition of Joe Johnson deserves a D grade. I'm really going to rub it in on these people criticizing Marvin now when he's fulfilling his vast potential in a couple of years.

[exodus]

Hollinger can't see beyond his numbers. Sometimes his stuff is useful, sometimes it isn't because he can't see context.

For example he rated the JJ signing as the second worst fa signing. I read his opinion of JJ before the season and JJ's PER last year was 15. So of course Hollinger says he isn't that good.

Now JJ's PER is 18.7, and that includes november when JJ was way off.

[shock]

For every good gift, there's a lump of KwameBy John Hollinger

ESPN Insider

Archive

Christmas may celebrate the season of giving, but the days immediately following are most definitely the season of returning. Millions of us will spend this week contemplating the bizarre gift choices of others, and how to turn those unusual items into something a bit more useful. We just hope Aunt Polly included a gift receipt along with those polyester lederhosen she sent us.

At this time of year, NBA general managers go through a similar process. They've seen their offseason acquisitions perform for nearly two months now, and in many cases they're pretty disappointed with the results. Unfortunately, the league's other 29 teams have a very strict "no returns" policy.

So while you can at least get store credit for the Air Supply boxed set some well-meaning nitwit left under the tree for you, the Lakers will have no such luck with Kwame Brown. Instead, their only recourse is to resell such defective merchandise, often at a steep discount from what they paid in the first place.

But what if NBA teams could return items? Here's a few of this summer's acquisitions that would be back in the store in a heartbeat:

Kwame Brown

Brown's resume from the past few weeks includes heartwarming items like, "had five-point no-show in triumphant return to D.C.," "blew Christmas day layup that short-circuited upset bid," "given decidedly unmasculine nickname by coaching staff," and "lost starting job to Brian Cook."

Averaging 5.8 points on 43.0 percent shooting isn't what L.A. had in mind when it made that sign-and-trade for him in the offseason, especially since Caron Butler is pumping in 15 a night in the nation's capital. For the moment, the Lakers are bending over backward to be patient with him (well, except for that whole "meow" thing), and Brown still has a year and a half left on his deal to prove he can be a quality power forward in L.A. After that, we don't know what his future holds, but based on his mind-numblingly bad 7.86 PER, I'm guessing words like "10-day" and "Yakima" will be a big part of it.

Marvin Williams

That whimpering sound you keep hearing is coming from Hawks general manager Billy Knight every time he sees a wire story that begins, "Chris Paul scored 22 points and handed out 11 assists as the upstart New Orleans Hornets pulled off another upset … " Knight had a chance to take Paul with the second overall pick, and his team could really use the help at the point, but instead Knight succumbed to the potential offered by Williams.

Thus far, very little of that "potential" has been converted into "actual." While we shouldn't overreact to a 19-year-old's first two months of pro action, Williams' modest rebounding numbers and inability to create his own shot have sent up red flags. Knight still stands behind his pick publicly, but if he could do it again you can rest assured he'd take Paul.

Tyson Chandler and Samuel Dalembert

Do you realize these two will make over $120 million in the next six years? That's about $10 million per point. OK, I'm slightly exaggerating, but it's safe to say neither player has done much to justify the investment so far. Dalembert continues to frustrate Philly fans with his pattern of blocking three shots per game while goaltending seven, though he's at least stepped it up on the glass this year. Chandler, meanwhile, has been plagued by fatigue through most of the early season and has failed to provide the defensive boost that was so instrumental in last season's success. Both are young and talented enough that they could eventually justify the investment, but each has been enough of a tease to make his team second-guess the decision.

Mike Dunleavy

At the time, the Warriors' preseason decision to give Dunleavy a six-year, $45 million extension seemed questionable. It now seems positively idiotic. Dunleavy is like that Christmas toy that you can't quite figure out what you're supposed to do with. He's an alleged outside shooter who is hitting 25 percent from 3-point range. He's a 6-foot-9 forward who is being outrebounded by both of his team's guards. He can't defend or create shots, and his slump shows no sign of abating -- until Monday he was working on a streak of six straight games with 11 points or less.

Jeff McInnis

If you sign a player renowned for whining about minutes and not playing any defense, should you really be surprised if he whines about minutes and doesn't play any defense? New Jersey's had several offseason doozies (I hear post-Christmas bargain hunters can get great deals on Antoine Wright jerseys) but none bigger than this one, which cost the Nets nearly half their midlevel exception.

The Knicks

No, I don't mean certain Knicks. I mean the Knicks -- coaches, front office, trainers, peanut vendors, you name it. Everybody except Channing Frye.

Has there ever been a team in any sport that spent more to accomplish less? The 'Bockers are paying $119 million in payroll -- easily the most of any club and more than double the salary cap -- yet there's a very real possibility they could end up with the worst record in the league. That money figure, mind you, would be substantially higher if Allan Houston and Jerome Williams hadn't come off the books this summer.

Wait, there's more. New York is paying $9 million a year to its coach, more than all but one team pays, as well as paying its league-high six assistants. Finally, the Knicks are handing out paychecks to Isiah Thomas and Scott Layden (yes, still). And for all that dough, they're 7-19, half a game behind the mighty Atlanta Hawks. Oh, and they already traded their next two first-round picks. Besides the draft, find one personnel move this team made in the past five years that worked. I dare you.

Rafer Alston

Think the Rockets wouldn't mind undoing this trade? Of all the many maladies to hit Houston this year -- T-Mac's back, Yao's toe, Jon Barry's calf, Stromile Swift's brain -- perhaps the most damaging was the self-inflicted wound created by the trade of Mike James for Alston. It didn't help any when Alston joined his Houston brethren in the trainer's room with a stress fracture, but even prior to that injury this trade was a dud. Alston looked miscast as a catch-and-shoot guy in Houston's structured offense, while James' scoring has been one of the few bright spots north of the border. The slumping, punchless Rockets wouldn't be nearly so moribund had they kept an energizer such as James in tow.

John Hollinger writes for ESPN Insider. His book "Pro Basketball Forecast: 2005-06" is available at both Amazon.com and Potomac Books.

[Admin]

you head back over the Dolphins boards and rub in how great Jim Druckenmiller is because you said he would basically be an NFL God with his incredible arm, intelligence, and blah blah blah.

You have jumped on so many players bandwagons over the years and tried to pump them up as the next huge thing in both sports that I cant even keep track of it.

[Packfill]

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Hollinger is an idiot. He also thinks the Hawks acquisition of Joe Johnson deserves a D grade. I'm really going to rub it in on these people criticizing Marvin now when he's fulfilling his vast potential in a couple of years.

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We all wish that Marvin will be half as good as you say he will be.

Problem is you have gone completly off the deep end in hyping/defending Marvin - to the point of being comical, creepy, assinine, fanatical and disturbing all in one package.

It would be one thing if you were hyping LeBron James, Dwight Howard, Carmelo Anthony or even O.J. Mayo, but why hitch yourself to this horse?

[KB21]

You really should quit lying.

[Lascar78]

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We all wish that Marvin will be half as good as you say he will be.

Problem is you have gone completly off the deep end in hyping/defending Marvin - to the point of being comical, creepy, assinine, fanatical and disturbing all in one package.

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Exactly. And that doesn't work well when we see him play multiple times a week.

[KB21]

Well then. I guess I and every draft prognosticator that is out there is just wrong about Marvin Williams. Marvin was rated no lower than 2nd on EVERY draft board, and he was #1 on most. I guess we are just wrong about him since, as a 19 year old, he hasn't come out and immediately averaged 20 points per game and 10 rebounds per game.

[Lascar78]

If you're going to bring up every draft prognosticator as if they're on your side, you should at least acknowledge that the vast majority have since changed their mind and said we should probably have gotten Paul.

[exodus]

On the plus side Charlotte will be without Okafor and May tonight, so we may see some more of Marvin's garbage time

exploits.

[KB21]

They've changed their mind only because they are thinking like a lot of you are. Marvin isn't giving the instant gratification today's fans want, so the Hawks should have gotten the guy who would have more of an immediate impact. Those who want nothing more than instant gratification completely ignore looking at actual skill level and potential.

Instant gratification makes you pass on players like Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Jermaine O'Neal, among others.

[Packfill]

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Well then. I guess I and every draft prognosticator that is out there is just wrong about Marvin Williams. Marvin was rated no lower than 2nd on EVERY draft board, and he was #1 on most. I guess we are just wrong about him since, as a 19 year old, he hasn't come out and immediately averaged 20 points per game and 10 rebounds per game.

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I think those same draft prognosticators would acknowledge that it was a weak draft. And those same draft prognosticators universally hailed Darko as the second pick in a much stronger draft.

[Johnnybravo4]

Good thing his article wasn't around when Kobe and T-mac came out...sheesh!

[Lascar78]

I don't disagree. I'm just saying stop acting like all the "knowledgable prognosticators" are on your side when they're not. They were at one time, and after seeing the top picks play, they've changed their tune. So stop acting like their support is proof that you're right.

These are the same guys who were high on Darko then changed their mind once he played in the league, high on Kandiman and then changed their mind once he played.

I am not saying that Marvin is a bust, but don't act as if these guys praising marvin before they saw him in the league somehow makes you right

[KB21]

I don't remember seeing anyone outside of Chad Ford lauding Darko Milicic as the #2 player in that draft.

Like I said though. Many of you are going to act like you never criticized Marvin when he's putting up 24-25 PPG, 8-9 RPG, 3-4 APG, while shooting a high percentage from the field and behind the arc, getting to the free throw line and shooting a high percentage, and playing lock down man up defense.

Marvin Williams will be a top 10 NBA player in 2-3 years. Chris Paul won't be. That's why taking Marvin was better than taking Chris Paul, not to mention the fact that Paul doesn't fit what the Hawks want.

[KB21]

I don't have to use what they say to make it right. It's right regardless, and you will all see that in time.

You seem to forget that I could care less what other people think. My opinion is the only one that matters to me.

As for those others, they knew Marvin was the best player in the draft. They simply wanted to criticize the Hawks for something, so they took the approach that Atlanta didn't draft for need. Of course, they would have used that against Atlanta in due time, when Marvin is blowing up as a young superstar in the league. They would then be talking about the "typical Hawks, always passing on potential for instant gratification".

Marvin Williams was the best player in the 2005 draft, and it wasn't even close. The only player that could have declared that would have come close to Marvin Williams in terms of potential is Rudy Gay. Speaking of Rudy Gay, there's no question in my mind that he is now and will be the #1 prospect in the 2006 NBA draft.

[lifelong]

Kobe averaged 3.4 points in the December of his rookie season.

tmac averaged 6 points and 3 reb in December of year one.

KG - 6 points and 2 reb in December of year one.

Isn't it too early to tell?

[Lascar78]

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You seem to forget that I could care less what other people think. My opinion is the only one that matters to me.

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Yes it's very clear from the hundreds upon hundreds of posts defending your opinion on the internet that you don't care about what others think. Very clear indeed