Here is a novel idea. Lets not make any changes.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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So what?These guys play on bad teams and had a couple of

good games.They aren't the threats on offense like Carter/

Iverson/PP and those guys are.

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What the hell are you talking about???

SAR is twice the threat of those SGs you mentioned. SAR is a PF. He's very light for a Pf.... However, he shot 46.1 % from the field. That means that for almost every two shots he put up, one went in. That's great.

If you want to talk in termss of "guys on bad teams" you must mean that they are "ball hogs" or players who get to take most of the shots.

In your commentary, you mentioned:

Iverson, Pierce, and Carter. Where do you think these guys rank in FGA???

Had Carter not been injured these guys would have come in 2,3, And 4 on the list.

[Guest]

Those guys are actually explosive and lead their teams to win

while we have been and will be in the below 40 for years to

come.

" However, he shot 46.1 % from the field. That means that for

almost every two shots he put up, one went in. That's great."

What does that have to do with a fluke 50 point game?46%

isn't all that great.That two % points better than PP AS A

GUARD, so I don't think you come away with that much in

the arguement.

"

Iverson, Pierce, and Carter. Where do you think these guys rank in FGA??? "

PP also gets 9 ft attempts per game. and he and the others are

flat out better scorers and better players.It doesn't matter

were they rank in FGA because THEY GET THE JOB DONE.

So he had one great game.But you and Dolfan overvalue our

players.We just lost to freakin a Carter less Raptors by

40 points.We are a embarassment right now.

Ben Wallace=Better than Theo

PP=Better than Shareef

You have no arguement to counter it.One fluke game is not a

arguement.You overvalue our players.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

PP also gets 9 ft attempts per game. and he and the others are

flat out better scorers and better players.It doesn't matter

were they rank in FGA because THEY GET THE JOB DONE.

---

Once again, the comparison is very hard to make here. Pierce is good, but Pierce also plays with a player in Walker who draws a lot of attention. Whereas SAR has always had to be the man on the team that he has played on. Now if you want to look at it from the perspective of JUST SCoring... Pierce might be slightly better. However, when you put every part of a game up... SAR is better by far. 21.2 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 46.1% FG. What is Pierce doing? Now SAR doesn't have the flamboyance of Pierce. He doesn't excite like Pierce and Carter... But we are not talking about Showmanship... We are talking about who's better.

[Guest]

I've stated it several times.Considering PP shoots so

many jumpers and Reef's baskets come mostly inside

what is the surprise PP shoots alittle but not lot lower?

PP averages more PPG,2 rebounds less despite being

a swingman and Reef is a PF,PP is just as good in

assist,and he blocks the same as Reef despite playing

SG....PP is also a better defensive player,gets to the

fouline more,contributes to a good team.What does

Shareef do better besides grab 2RPG more?We are

talking strictly on the court.If I could meet and talk

to one of the two I'd rather meet Reef....but we are

talking about on the basketball court.

Besides two more boards you have yet to tell me

what Shareef does better...Until you can do that

you're arguement is weak.I don't think PP is a really

exciting player,but he is just the better player.

And if you want to compare Shooting why don't you

look at the guys 3pt shooting?You can make the argue

ment that is because PP is a Guard Reef is a PF..but

then I can turn around and say Reef's Shooting %

is higher because he gets baskets in a post like a PF

is supposed to do.

[Admin]

I think that the problem you and this other guy are having problems with is realizing that Reef has been on terrible teams and therefore makes him seem like he isnt a winner. Show me one other player in the NBA that can do what Reef does at Power Forward and at Small Forward while being double teamed constantly and being the main option without much help, because thats whats happened to Reef in his career.

Just to put into perspective my statement that Reef belongs up there with the top guys, including Pierce I want to show you statistically how Reef compares to Pierce.

2002 Stats

PP

82 games

26 ppg

7 rpg

3 apg

1,598 fg attempts

44% fg percentage

Reef

77 games

21 ppg

9 rpg

3 apg

1,297 fg attempts

46% fg percentage

Doing the math for you, Pierce had 301 more FG attempts than Reef did, shooting almost 2% lower than Reef too by the way. However, PP did play in 5 more games so we have to figure that out, but dont worry I will do it for ya. PP averaged 19.5 FGs per game while Reef averaged 16.5 FGs per game. So, using the average FG percentage for Reef, its easy to figure out that if he had taken 3 more FGs per game he would have made roughly 1.5 of them, or about 3 pts. That would put his PPG up to 24 PPG, just 2 less than Pierce while still shooting almost 2% higher and grabing 2 more RPG. Now, what is the easier stat to get, 2 points or 2 rebounds?

Now, if you want to use the "Reef isnt a star because he has never taken his team anywhere" arguement....consider that until this year Pierce had NEVER taken his team anywhere and he has had another very good player whom by your words is equal to Reef playing with him. Since you didnt put JT up in that category I would assume that you consider PP/Walker to be better than Reef/JT right?

So, really I cannot understand where you arguement for Pierce over Reef comes from other than personal bias against Reef.

By the way, what is Pierces career high in points for a game? Its 48. Reefs is 50.

What is Pierces career high for rebounds in a game? Its 15. Reefs if 22.

What is Pierces career high for assists in a game? Its 9. Reefs is 13.

Really the only thing that Pierce has on Reef is that he is a better 3 point shooter, but thats about it. Now maybe you will understand why I consider Reef to be in the same category as Pierce, and then again maybe you wont.

[Guest]

How do you explain PP getting a same blocks as Reef despite

playing SG?How do you explain PP being better on defense?Not

to mention Reef's horrid ball handling skills and higher TO"s

despite him playing PF.PP gets more steals,shoots the 3,runs

the floor better(things like this don't show up in stats)and

just has better talents overall.

You can look at PP and say Top defender,runs floor well,decent

ball handling skills,rebounds,shoots the 3,has some atheltic ability,

gets alot of steals,blocks well for a SG.

Can you say all those things with Reef?Are you actually going to

make me belief stats ALONE tell the story?PP is better on paper

and better on the court.He has better talents and he is better

on paper.All you have shown me is:What if Reef took as many

shots as PP?Well he doesn't.Why doesn't he despite being a

first option while PP co first option.What about the 4th period

which is often when you want your best player to show up...

PP lead the league in points in the 4th period.You seem to

ignore this fact.PP alot of time scores the bulk of his points

in the 4th period while Reef gets his in the 3rd...Which is

more important?

You act like 46% shooting is all that hot for a PF...Sheed/Gasol/

Duncan/Webber/Dice/Brand all shoot better.And only two of

those are top 10 players.Duncan and Webber.

PP was stuck on a bad team.They have pretty much the same

roster for the last few years,but PP improving and lead them

to the playoffs.The Celtics are FAR from a talented team.They

have Tony Battie and Eric Williams as starters for god sakes.

So your whole arguement is boiling down to "what if Reef took

more shots"?I agree why doesn't he?Care to tell me why?Care

to tell me why PP looks to win the game in the 4th and Reef

takes a back seat to JT?Why is that?

[Guest]

What it is the 4th PP says I WANT TO WIN THIS GAME!Reef says:

TAKE A BACKSEAT TO JT.PP scorers and Reef turns the ball over

due to double teams and he doesn't lack ball handling skills and

is slighty slow.

Reef is a great player,and I want him to retire here,but saying he

is a top 10 is just crazy.