Ivey getting exposed

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

The bottom line is that we don't have a starting caliber PG

---

No question. And while JJ has been great he isn't a pg any more than Wade or Lebron are point guards. They are both the primary scorers and playmakers on their teams but neither are playing the point.

---

So what? If you score it does matter how you score right? The Hornets according to the board have this phenom in Paul at point guard but yet they are worse in every offensive category than the Hawks including assist. Explain that to me.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Explain that to me.

---

Their go to guy is David West.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Explain that to me.

---

Their go to guy is David West.

---

Who is Shooting over 51% from the field, getting over 7 rebounds a game and is averaging 17 points per game. What is your point?

[Johnnybravo4]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

If Salim was told, you are going to start, you are going to get 30 minutes a game for the next 5 games..Calm down, give effort on defense, and get to ball to JJ

---

Ivey can do this better than Salim. That being said, Salim is more talented. The bottom line is neither one is an NBA starter. If Salim had been starting we would all be saying that Ivey needs to start. Ivey can come in and play in a pretty stable manner, not turn the ball over and play some D. Salim can score. Seems to me that we need the former more than the latter. The bottom line is that we don't have a starting caliber PG

---

How do we know that he isn't a starting pg. He is a rookie. He hasn't been put in the position to be a distributor and set up man. I mean it takes some players a couple of years to develop..just look at JJ's stats his first couple of years in the league. Players can be developed. I hear folks in hear wishing for Jarrett Jack or Deron Williams, and the like but neither one of those players are playing appreciably better than Salim.

[Lascar78]

because he's 23 and he can't play D, dribble, or pass at an NBA PG level. Most guys who come around slowly as PG's are guys who had all the individual skills from the getgo, but didn't know how to read offenses/defenses and how to run a team. Jarrett Jack is a much much better defender, dribbler, passer, and is better at attacking the rim then Salim. Salim's only advantage is a jumper. Jack has been struggling to get minutes, but he's still getting twice as many assists as turnovers, while Salim gets more TO's than assists..

Salim will never be a starting PG in the NBA on a good team. He doesn't have any of the skills of the position other than being short and knowing how to shoot. He is a SG in a PG's body, who can be a terrific guy to have off your bench for instant offense.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Who is Shooting over 51% from the field, getting over 7 rebounds a game and is averaging 17 points per game. What is your point?

---

The Hawks have two players who are much better on offense than West. He was a journeyman until hooking up with Paul this year.

They just don't have many scorers there. That is why their offense isn't as good as ours. It isn't that complicated.

[Johnnybravo4]

Quote:

---

because he's 23 and he can't play D, dribble, or pass at an NBA PG level. Most guys who come around slowly as PG's are guys who had all the individual skills from the getgo, but didn't know how to read offenses/defenses and how to run a team. Jarrett Jack is a much much better defender, dribbler, passer, and is better at attacking the rim then Salim. Salim's only advantage is a jumper. Jack has been struggling to get minutes, but he's still getting twice as many assists as turnovers, while Salim gets more TO's than assists..

Salim will never be a starting PG in the NBA on a good team. He doesn't have any of the skills of the position other than being short and knowing how to shoot. He is a SG in a PG's body, who can be a terrific guy to have off your bench for instant offense.

---

I disagree with your contention that he cannot dribble. He like JJ, sometimes dribble like an AND 1 player. When he is pressured I think he sometimes gets nervous and turns the ball over but I think that can be cured by experience. He doesn't just have a jumper because on numerous occasions he blows by his man for either a layup or that running one-leg floater that he likes to shoot.

As far as defense goes, he gives good effort. He glues up to his man and chases him around the floor. his only disadvantage is that he is 6'0 and thus he has a tendency to get abused by taller PGs..but you have to live with that with a short PG...it probably happens to Chris Paul as well.

As far as assists to TO ratio, it stinks, but his current job on this team is not to get assists. It is to bring the ball up the court run around some screens and hit open looks, which he does with regularity. All I am saying is that if you change his role, I believe that he could adjust. He could turn into a 15 ppg, 5-6 assist pg, which is all we need, since JJ will probably be a 25ppg 6 ast player next year.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Who is Shooting over 51% from the field, getting over 7 rebounds a game and is averaging 17 points per game. What is your point?

---

The Hawks have two players who are much better on offense than West. He was a journeyman until hooking up with Paul this year.

---

He's in his third year in the league with the same team! That doesn't qualify as a Journeyman. Do your research. Joe johnson is the defacto point guard on this team and therefore plays the same position as Paul. They have better post up players than we do. Try again!

[chillzatl]

while people here, many whom are now savaging Ivey, were savaging Woodson for not playing him more. I said all along, the reason he wasn't getting more minutes was becuase he simply wasn't good enough to deserve them. That's not to say that he won't or can't improve. But right now, he's not ready for more than 10mpg. The fact that they all come at the start of halves doesn't change that.

[Johnnybravo4]

Quote:

---

while people here, many whom are now savaging Ivey, were savaging Woodson for not playing him more. I said all along, the reason he wasn't getting more minutes was becuase he simply wasn't good enough to deserve them. That's not to say that he won't or can't improve. But right now, he's not ready for more than 10mpg. The fact that they all come at the start of halves doesn't change that.

---

Which is why I laughed when people said that he calms the offense and provides defense.

There is no pressure in the first 5 minutes of halves. No one comes out of the half with the press on. And most people's shot is off in the beginning of halves because they are cold. The fact that Ivey is on the bench in crunch time is more of an indication of his talent. The only reason why he starts is because Lue stabilized the offense when he came into the game.

[Diesel]

Ivey may not be ready for more than 10 mpg, but the answer is certainly not turning the team over to the whims of Salim. I would much rather see Salim traded than here.

He does have talent, but his attitude and focus are wrong for the Hawks.

[Johnnybravo4]

Quote:

---

Ivey may not be ready for more than 10 mpg, but the answer is certainly not turning the team over to the whims of Salim. I would much rather see Salim traded than here.

He does have talent, but his attitude and focus are wrong for the Hawks.

---

His attitude is right for the Hawks. We have too many passive people on this team, we need someone who wants the ball and has the arrogance to think that he should be the man. We need that type of fire. Salim may be a hot head..but he is not Ron Artest.

[exodus]

Some guys play better when given more minutes. Other guys get exposed. I certainly expected more of Ivey that he has produced, but at least now we know.

He had his chance.

[Diesel]

When you're trying to build an offense based on the team concept (open offense) a player like Salim is the very last thing we need.

[Johnnybravo4]

Quote:

---

When you're trying to build an offense based on the team concept (open offense) a player like Salim is the very last thing we need.

---

Players who can hit perimeter shots are exactly the players you need in an open offense.

[chillzatl]

not when they won't pass the ball and you don't have enough ball handlers to allow them to spot up out there and do nothing but shoot. They try to use Salim as a PG and in an open offense, he's worthless in that role. Becuase if he receieves teh ball with 15secs or less left, he won't give it back up again.

[MoonKnight]

I knew before the season Salim would have trouble with his D but I was surprised to learn how bad his ball handling skills were. I cringe when he brings the ball up the court because it looks like he is about to dribble the ball off his foot. At this point Salim does not have the dribbling skills of a 2 guard and certainly not a point guard. It appears Salim is a role player.... a jump shooter off the pine only. He is clearly not the point guard of the future.

[a1aa0]

If you put Salim in your starting lineup, you ruin the chemistry that we've finally gotten in place...

Salim is a role player (hence why he dropped to the 2nd round in the draft)... He comes in to try and generate offense... But all I see him doing is increasing the other team's lead... It seems to me we are always down more than when he came into the game...

Our offense goes to hell when he comes in because everyone knows he's gonna jack it up... Therefore, the movement stops... We become more liable to the long breakout pass because Salim is driving down the middle and no one rotates back to defend the kickout pass...

Salim hasn't done much since his unbelievable New Orleans game when he practically brought the team back from a ~30 point deficit to almost win the game...

[Lascar78]

Quote:

---

I knew before the season Salim would have trouble with his D but I was surprised to learn how bad his ball handling skills were. I cringe when he brings the ball up the court because it looks like he is about to dribble the ball off his foot. At this point Salim does not have the dribbling skills of a 2 guard and certainly not a point guard. It appears Salim is a role player.... a jump shooter off the pine only. He is clearly not the point guard of the future.

---

I'm in the exact same boat. It is unbelievable how many times he either dribbles it off his foot, or throws the ball to himself too far out and someone else gets to it first. He barely dribbles better than smoove.

he can't play D, can't dribble, can't distribute. It would take him a long time just to learn how to dribble and play D, and he still would have to learn to run an offense. I can't think of any good PG who didn't know how to dribble at age 23-24

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

I knew before the season Salim would have trouble with his D but I was surprised to learn how bad his ball handling skills were. I cringe when he brings the ball up the court because it looks like he is about to dribble the ball off his foot. At this point Salim does not have the dribbling skills of a 2 guard and certainly not a point guard. It appears Salim is a role player.... a jump shooter off the pine only. He is clearly not the point guard of the future.

---

He is better than JT was when he was here