How about West and Brown???

[Diesel]

Why didn't we get Jerry West again? He was smart enough to get rid of Lowe and get Hubie Brown. The critics said that Hubie was too old. I heard ramblings about the team meal being moved up to 4:00 p.m. and a 9:00 p.m. bedcheck. However, last time I looked, Memphis wasn't doing so bad. I would venture to say that their winning percentage under Hubie is probably the best it has ever been as a franchise? I thought he was brought in to teach... However, now it looks like he was brought in to win. Then there's that TRADE that everyone is waiting on. You know where West trades Most of his young players to LA for Kobe? I don't see it happening. Kobe would love that though. A chance to show the world. BUt right now.. That European guy is ruling at the 2. Look for Battier and Dickerson to be moved before too long.

Hubie Brown could be coach of the yr??

[Jamil]

The Hawks will forever be known as The Team That Said NO To Jerry West because They Preferred To Keep Pete Babcock.

Is it any wonder why the franchise has never gone nor will ever be going anywhere?

Good for Memphis and Hubie Brown. Trying to turn the Grizzlies into a respectable franchise is like trying to turn the Titanic to avoid that iceburg...practically impossible. They are 7-11 since Hubie took over and 7-6 in their last 13 games. Pretty fricking amazing.

[Guest]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong - but we didn't so "no" to West - he said no to us, primarily based on the fact that we had several longer term deals in place/ didn't have the upcoming draft spots that Memphis did - he wanted an opportunity to build the team as he wanted to build it, and that opportunity didn't really exist in Atlanta (we already had Reef then, Toni and Theo too).

That was the bottom line as far as I understood it.

[jaywalker72]

Classic revisionist history trying to say that we turned West down. It's like we try to make the past a worst case Hawks scenario.

Example of False History: The Hawks actually thought about trading up for Michael Jordan, but chose to pass the pick to Chicago for free, not drafting at all. The Hawks said "Jordan will never make it and our fans suck."

Hawks bashers would like you to think that this is the way they operate, but reality states that the management isn't bad, but has not been championship caliber either.

In the case of wooing West, the Hawks wanted him badly, and Pete even offered to step down to accomodate Jerry, but in the end West was unimpressed with the organization and preferred the complete control that MEM provided.

[Jamil]

Well if West was "unimpressed" with the Hawks organization and instead chose what has been one of the worst in pro sports history what does that say about the state of the Babcock-run Hawks?

I know what Babcock publicly stated about his willingness to step down. Of course he's not going to say something like "over my dead body will I resign so Jerry West can have my job!"

Babcock always says the right things. Can't say the same about his actions.

Dominique Wilkins would make a better GM than Babcock.

[BlackHawkDown]

I agree and disagee with you. Babcock when he first became GM became along with Kasten( who is redeemed by the braves sucess) formed the worst management team in recent history. However to their credit htey have turned it around quite a bit and become respectable. But overall last 14 years I give them a D+ to C-.

Jordan and Nique that would have been the single greatest scoring duo in history, even though it would never have worked b/c they would have fought everyday over who was taking 30 shots/game. Remember how much our last big three Nique/Moses/Theus fought over the ball and sqaubbled they even brought in a team psychologist. WTF. Fratello must have been a senseless coach. I dont think I was older than Hawksfreak, if I was even that old, back then so I cant really comment on it.

[Diesel]

Yes,

West turned us down.

Only because we didn't offer him a chance to run the show. He expressed interest in being the GM however, we were only offering a position as a consultant??

http://www.sportsscoops.com/headlines/3/272.shtml

That's the same as us turning him down. Anybody that knows the first thing about Jerry West knows that he has control issues. He likes control from top to bottom. He goes to practice and he critics the coaches. How in the [censored] can you offer West a job where everyday he has to sit there and watch Babcock [censored] up and NOT be able to do anything about it??

We turned him down.

[jaywalker72]

We offered him control of everything, don't let a December 2001 report fool you.

Pete did offer to step aside, and the organization was ready to be influenced by West.

However...

He didn't like the setup in Atlanta, and whether that meant the corporate ownership, power structure, compensation, etc. is all speculation.

What is not speculation is that the Hawks wanted West badly, with his terms (except possibly financial).

[Diesel]

Seeing that you have a basis on which article is used to "influence"..... I'll use this one.

http://hawks.realgm.com/showarticle.php?artid=30

In reply to:

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Kasten said if West joins the Hawks in more than an advisory capacity it would not be to replace Babcock.

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My Point.

If West were to be brought in, Kasten makes the claim RIGHT HERE that it would not be to replace Babcock. It would not be to have control of the day to day dealings of the Franchise.

These are Kasten's words... quoted by YOU.

The only time I remember Pete saying that he would step aside was in an ask the GM session. Had Pete offered to Step aside officially, I think Kasten would have NEVER said what you quoted him to say. Plus, I don't think Pete was being totally honest there anyway. Look at Pete's reply to Hotlantadude's email. Pete makes it sound like He will have to be forced out of his GM role. You think that same person would willing give up his job?

http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/sean_de.../20020628a.html

In reply to:

---

In a bit of coincidence, the Hawks also had pursued West, and had they been successful, it likely would have been Babcock, not Knight, who would have been unemployed.

---

Don't be fooled... Babcock Cherishes his job and won't just give it up. Why do you think we didn't hire Kasten's pick and buddy and Neighbor Isiah Thomas? Kasten left the decision to Babcock who picked nonthreatning Lon Kruger. Somebody who don't have ambitions on being more than just a coach. And you think Babcock would willing step aside?

HA. Read Kasten's words again.

[jaywalker72]

That was a reprint of the AJC wire report, the same one used by sportscoop.

Again, that was from December 2001, when it wasn't even sure that West was really serious about taking over another team.

Here is a later column (April 19), and this one is by me originally.

http://hawks.realgm.com/showarticle.php?artid=155

Quoted:

The Hawks have sought West to be the top dog for their organization, with team executives such as Stan Kasten and Pete Babcock reportedly ready to turn over considerable decision making powers to make room for West.

So far, that hasn’t been enough to make West jump at the opportunity, and now there appears to be a soon-to-be spirited war for his services.

Sounds to me like the tone had changed, and I reported so.

The Hawks were willing to usurp a lot of their power to accomodate Jerry. I reported it as such as more information was being revealed.

In very few cases are the first reports the most detailed. The December reports you keep quoting were not the last word on these matters.

[Diesel]

That's not stepping aside.

You said that they are willing to turn over "considerable" decision making power.

The problem West had in LA is that he was fully in charge. IN Memphis they Fired Billy Knight... (Not moved him into another position with the organization but fired him) to allow West to have all the control that he wants. What you reported about Kasten and Babcock sounds like they wanted to have that same kind of deal they made with Lenny... That they would all have equal say?

Youdon't offer that to West. If West is coming back, he probably wants full control so that there is no misunderstanding and not fights. Look at Memphis. They gave him total power and he's doing what he wanted to do taking a gutter team to the playoffs.

[Traceman]

the biggest factor. If the team were still owned by Turner, I think the situation might have been more workable but the Hawks' are in uncertain times right now due to their ownership. The Grizz's owner could tell West that he would have complete control over financial as well as personnel decisions but the Hawks couldn't do that. Time Warner/AOL could sell the team at any time in then where would West be? I think the whole situation in Atlanta is just bad right now and if I had West's choice, I would have went with the situation in Memphis as well.

[Diesel]

I really don't think that that's valid...

I think more responsible was the fact that neither Babcock nor Kasten were going to give up TOTAL control to West and that's what he wanted.

Now, let's understand why your point isn't valid.

Who Is JERRY WEST??

Jerry West is GOD (in Basketball).

He's the best GM that has ever GMed'

Masterminded the deal for Shaq.

Founded Kobe, Magic, Worthy, and a whole list of stars.

His only problem is he didn't win every time out.

BUT... WHAT OWner wouldn't want Jerry West as their GM??

[censored] weather it be AOL or anybody else... With his credentials and Popularity, he stands out as the best figure head in the game. [censored], the NBA Logo is Jerry Frickin West. If AOL were looking to sell, having Jerry West as the GM would make the franchise that much more marketable.

So back to my point. Babcock and Kasten didn't seem willing to relinquish total control to West. That alone may be the only reason why he didn't want in. I mean, we were the first team to contact him.... He showed interest. However, Memphis was able to put their money where their mouth was. They fired a really good guy. To get West's attention.

[Traceman]

He didn't want to work for them. Of course they wanted him, that's why they pursued him. West didn't like the situation. I don't think he would have taken the Hawks job if Pete or Stan didn't exist. In addition, who says AOL was looking to sell the team back when we were recruiting West and even if they were looking to sell when they were recruiting him, why in the [censored] would he want to come work for a team that was about to be sold?

Jerry West could have went to a number of places (including the Knicks) and he chose to go with Memphis because he felt it was the best situation for him. Why is that so hard for you to accept?