Bust Rule 101, Shelden qualifies

[DJlaysitup]

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Shelden suffers from a lack of athleticism that will cap his upside. He needs an identity on offense badly. The kid doesn't have any low block moves. He just overpowered lesser foes in college. He can't do that anymore.

I hope that he can develop a reliable 15-18 foot face up jumper because he will need it...

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C'mon Pete...have you watched the more competitive Duke games and the SL games? The guy HAS interior moves (may need to improve them but they are better than JS/MW moves right now). He also already has a pretty nice mid-range jumper.

Guarrantee he won't be air-balling from 8 feet like Edwards. If you'r gonna criticize at least criticize with the truth.

[TexasPete]

Tell the truth? LOL. Your right about some of Dukes games. I saw Killingsworth of IU put 36 points directly in your defensive ace's mug. I watched Shelden play 25 times in college and I never saw ONE low post move. He powered his way into the basket. He didn't shoot his jumper AT ALL. You read about it in the paper just like everybody else who claims he has a jumper.

Here is the truth: He is working on a reliable shot from 15-18 feet. You haven't seen it because he didn't take it in college. He is not athletic AT ALL. If he can't overpower he can't score. This kid is a project in many respects who is 23. I know you love Billy and won't criticize him regardless...but you will see this kid is a relative bust. Relative in the sense that he isn't that good and the guys we passed on are going to be very good players. Shelden will have trouble scoring next year. That is the truth.

[DJlaysitup]

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...You read about it in the paper just like everybody else who claims he has a jumper.

Here is the truth: He is working on a reliable shot from 15-18 feet. You haven't seen it because he didn't take it in college...

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I saw him hit a nice step-back mid-range jumper last night (after faking an inside move on his defender) in the NBA SL replay. Nothing but net.

[Guest Walter]

Roy (and to some Foye) were both far and away better players and pro prospects. So far and away such no other team would have entertained SW there. Not one.

Hell, the talk about Roy as a stretch at Pg is laughable given that's where Portland played him from DAY ONE. Didn't even try him at Sg. Plugged him right in at Pg. Alongside JJ such a role would be EASY for a player like Roy.

SW has NO trade value and NOBODY else would have drafted him at 5. Playing him even benches either JS or MW O-R gives us the shortest, least interior skilled lineup in the NBA. There is just no excuse for it.

W

[Lascar78]

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Shelden suffers from a lack of athleticism that will cap his upside.

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No.

He is short, and his short reach and lack of outstanding hops might limit him, but he is athletic as hell. He is thick, as strong as they come for his size, and very quick for a guy his size. That is all par of athleticism.

[TexasPete]

Our GM took a kid that not ONE other top 5 team considered for a second. Some lightweights here wonder why the Hawks get drilled constantly in the national media for sucking so bad...and for being a crap organization. Hello????

Funny thing is many national media rip BK because he does crazy stuff like promising a player who nobody else wanted...one month in advance. Did we need a defensive big? Not that dang bad. Making the argument to take an totally inferior player because of position is garbage. We also needed defense on the perimeter to stop dribble penetration. Shelden will STAY in fould trouble. He isn't athletic enough to stay in good position. Getting beat leads to recovery fouls.

Marvin had upside so the pick can be justified. The Shelden pick is just a disaster. And, don't worry, I'm patient enough to wait out the BK defenders. You'll be running from Shelden faster than Enron stock about December.

[DJlaysitup]

Well TP, I seriously don't think the Shelden pick will be a disaster. I will say one thing though. Some years you draft for need and some years you take BPA. We just got our years mixed up. Woulda been better off drafting for need last year (CP3) and taking BPA this year.

[Guest Walter]

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Marvin had upside so the pick can be justified. The Shelden pick is just a disaster. And, don't worry, I'm patient enough to wait out the BK defenders. You'll be running from Shelden faster than Enron stock about December.

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We wouldn't ever get a Chris Paul for MW but if we do trade him he has value. So do Roy and Foye. SW, not much if any.

SW will not get much better than he is at the end of his frist season. He's already just about capped out potential-wise. What you see in Feb.-March is what you get.

W

[AHF]

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SW, not much if any.

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He was projected as a lottery pick by everyone before the Hawks rumors. How could he not have "any" value?

[TexasPete]

Shelden is NOT athletic as hell. I called my friend who is a D1 assistant coach in the Big 12 last week and asked him about Shelden. He told me that Coach K did a number on BK and the owners of the Hawks. He says that Coach K is the last guy any NBA GM should talk to about his players because he just wants them to get a nice contract. He says he always blows smoke up the NBA's a$$.

He said that in his opinion Shelden isn't nearly athletic enough for an NBA front line. He said that he could jump OK but his lateral movement was terrible for an NBA prospect. He did say that almost all of SW's blocks come on the backside and he helps well. The problem is his one on one defense. He also said that Aldridge was a big wuss and that anyone who thought Shelden was good based on that game is kidding themselves. He said Aldridge doesn't have the heart to make it big although he had skills. His opinion was that SW was sheer power. No polished offensive game. He felt all along that SW was a typical great college player who wouldn't translate well in the NBA game. He said he never played against SW but he saw him live in the tournament and wasn't impressed at all with his basketball skills. Classy kid, good work ethic, and a very marginal player.

[DJlaysitup]

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...Coach K is the last guy any NBA GM should talk to about his players because he just wants them to get a nice contract. He says he always blows smoke up the NBA's a$$....

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Well TexP, I don't really agree with the rest of your post, but I would bet this is true.

Coaches do what's in their own best interest - and Shelden getting picked at #5 and getting a nice contract has to be good for Duke and coach K. You gotta have stuff to brag about to your possible recruits. Duke isn't exactly hurting for things to brag about, but it all helps!

[Guest Walter]

And two of four prior to SW were traded. Teams were hungry to draft these players, making blockbuster trade after another to get them.

We even telegraphed who we were gonna pick and we didn't get offers for SW. Everyone wanted us to pick him so the better baller might fall to them.

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He was projected as a lottery pick by everyone before the Hawks rumors. How could he not have "any" value?

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Lottery? Hell, JJ Reddick and Armstrong were lottery picks but I wouldn't give a bucket of balls for them. Moreover, while SW certainly was a "lottery pick" he d@mn sure wasn't a top 5 pick and IMHO not top 9. A player like SW, all but tapped-out potential, 1-dimensional, a short big with a shorter reach. Who would want to trade anything of value for that? There is no upside. None. And the draft played out with most everyone around him being traded and despite everyone knowing we were going to pick him nobody trading for him.

W

[KB21]

Let's not forget about a couple of "undersized" guys from the '80s in Karl Malone and Buck Williams. In fact, a lot of people have compared Shelden to Buck. I know most of the people on this site probably don't even know who Buck Williams is, much less seen him play.

Let's not forget about Emeka Okafor either, who is another undersized college center turned professional power forward. Shelden actually tested out better athletically than Okafor.

Then there is Elton Brand, who is the best power forward in the game today in my opinion. There is Carlos Boozer, who is an above average NBA power forward. Ike Diogu is a young guy that I really liked from last year's draft, though not quite as much as I like Sean May.

[KB21]

Exactly.

Shane Battier is one of my favorite players in the entire league, and that's mainly because he isn't some shirt popping, corn row wearing show boat on the court. He just goes out there, does his job, and is a model of what you want in a professional off the court. As I said in another post, there are a lot of Memphis fans that absolutely hated that deal because of the bond Shane has struck with the Memphis community. He did a lot of work for charity in Memphis, particularily with St. Francis Hospital. Shane is a good basketball player and an even better person.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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I called my friend who is a D1 assistant coach in the Big 12 last week and asked him about Shelden. He told me that Coach K did a number on BK and the owners of the Hawks. He says that Coach K is the last guy any NBA GM should talk to about his players because he just wants them to get a nice contract. He says he always blows smoke up the NBA's a$$.

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You want to talk about Coach K? Shelden Williams is the only player in the Coach K era to average a double double for his career starts. Now put that in your BS pipe and smoke it!

[tmac13]

"he isn't some shirt popping, corn row wearing show boat on the court."

What does wearing corn rows have to do with quality of the individual?

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Lottery? Hell, JJ Reddick and Armstrong were lottery picks but I wouldn't give a bucket of balls for them. Moreover, while SW certainly was a "lottery pick" he

d@mn

sure wasn't a top 5 pick and IMHO not top 9.

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Not a top 9 pick? So Shelden Williams would have gone after Patrick O'Bryant and Saer Sene? GTFOH.

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A player like SW, all but tapped-out potential, 1-dimensional, a short big with a shorter reach. Who would want to trade anything of value for that? There is no upside. None. And the draft played out with most everyone around him being traded and despite everyone knowing we were going to pick him nobody trading for him.

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This is why I'm happy there is an age limit. All these high schoolers and underclassmen jumping to the NBA has clouded the minds of the average observer and even draft "experts".

It's like we are punishing players who go to school for 4 years because they don't have any more "upside". A player like Shelden Williams can be a top 5 player in his HS class, go to school for 4 years improving his numbers every year on his way to one of the most successful college careers ever and for some reason he doesn't have any more upside?

Who the hell are you to say he can't improve any more? Like Shelden said, there are parts of his game that we haven't seen before because he wasn't asked to do those things at Duke. Shelden says he can hit a midrange jumper but that wasn't what the Duke offense was about. It wasn't about the guards rebouding the big men shot. Duke had an offense that focused on the perimeter. You have no idea what type of moves he has or can add to his repertoire. He may not be as athletic as Amare Stoudamire but what he has is physicality and tenacity on defense that you just can't teach. Like Dickie V put it, Shelden is not one of those big men that play like they are 6'6. He plays bigger than his size. He already has elite strength for his position without even getting any stronger. He's a vocal leader on the floor and his defensive energy is contagious.

But go ahead and write him off because he doesn't have any more "upside".

[Traceman]

That is ridiculous! He can certainly learn to knock down a 15-18 foot shot when left open. He can also learn a little jump hook (or other post moves) that allows him to get his shot off against taller players.

Nobody thought Boozer would be able to score in the NBA and his offensive game is light years better than it was at Duke. Shelden is nowhere near a finished product. I don't know how good he will be but he will definitely get better as most rookie do.

[KB21]

Because you don't look like a professional when you have that kind of crap hair do.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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That is ridiculous! He can certainly learn to knock down a 15-18 foot shot when left open. He can also learn a little jump hook (or other post moves) that allows him to get his shot off against taller players.

Nobody thought Boozer would be able to score in the NBA and his offensive game is light years better than it was at Duke. Shelden is nowhere near a finished product. I don't know how good he will be but he will definitely get better as most rookie do.

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Walter must think if you can't jump out of a gym you don't have any upside. But it's equally funny how he gives up on a player with athleticism out of this world in Marvin Williams. So in other words, he just wants to complain about anything we do.

Oh and Shelden has shown a jump hook on several occasions and who knows, he may be able to knock down a 15-18 foot shot right now.