Deal Sucks

[exodus]

if he had gotten that offer from NOK, right Diesel?

I never said Al would definitely walk I said he could walk if he got a strong offer. That is exactly what happened with Peja and Indy. It also happened with Wallace and Detroit.

Fortunately Al wasn't valued as highly as those two.

And what is our big SNT prize that you said would come by holding Al until the summer?

[exodus]

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At that time I think it was in question whether our owners had the right to take on new contracts anyways. I really don't think he would have been a target either way though.

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That is a copout. The Hawks interior D was the worst in the league and Prz was the best interior defensive center available aside from Wallace.

And the Hawks could have signed him before the court ruling came down, just like they did with Speedy.

[Lascar78]

I know he didn't bolt, but his only point was that Al is not going to turn down a big deal (to walk) just because he is friends with BK. He didn't say he would walk. The 2 teams that were a legit shot for Al walking were Chicago and Peja. They both got big FAs before talking to Al. In any event, there was no contradiction in those quotes.

I agreed with you that I didn't think we'd lose Al for nothing, and I also agreed with ex that Al wouldn't turn down a big offer to walk just because BK is a friend.

[Diesel]

No.. actually, the essence of what you read was that your buddie Ex was argueing that Al wouldn't turn down a deal that offered no Bird Rights just because we could sign him with Bird Rights.

Here's another example of Exodus...

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NO and Chicago can easily sign him outright, in which case we lose Al for nothing. You act like this can't possibly happen but it happened just last year with Hughes.

That extra year and the raises that you seem to think are so important didn't mean squat.

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He said that the extra year and raises are meaningless... he echoed this over and over and over... however, Al is not signed now.. why? He's waiting on the extra years and Raises.

[Lascar78]

I'm not gonna do the math but wouldn't a max 5 year deal gotten him more money over 5 years than his current deal will in 6 years? That would indicate that the extra cash was not that big a deal.

[exodus]

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He said that the extra year and raises are meaningless...

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What did Wallace's Bird Rights mean to Detroit?

What did Peja's Bird Rights mean to Indy? it meant they got a TE, which the Hawks couldn't have gotten.

[Diesel]

Again,

as I argued then, there's no team that would give Al a Max 5 year deal... Most teams would rather lose unwanted players in a SNT than to sign a player to a max deal without a SNT.

Moreover, the thought at the time was trade Al before the deadline...

This is what I said that remains true now:

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NO team will give you close to equal value for a rental. No team wants to repeat the Danny Manning trade. That's just another dumb statement by somebody that would trade Al for a box of doughnuts..

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[exodus]

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NO team will give you close to equal value for a rental.

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[Guest]

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I'm not gonna do the math but wouldn't a max 5 year deal gotten him more money over 5 years than his current deal will in 6 years? That would indicate that the extra cash was not that big a deal.

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Max that Al could have gotten from another team would be:

14.946

16.1417

17.3374

18.533

19.7287

Total- 86.6868

So the answer would be yes, a lot more. Of course, I really doubt someone would give him that.

[Diesel]

Let me say it again.

NO team will give you equal value for a rental AT THE DEADLINE..

Not Since somebody foolishly traded Nique for Danny Manning.

[exodus]

again rendering your point moot.

[TheDude]

as a supporter of BK, i don't like this deal...it seems like we played hardball with INDY just to get less...i find it hard to beleive that not one other team couldnt have gotten us better than one 1st round pick.

maybe it's not protected...but still.

[skyhawk]

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Indy would only trade him to a western team and Indy was over the cap.

We would have had over twice as many trade options as Indy had.

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Don't see that either as only the "borderline" playoff contenders (Cavs, Wiz etc) would have seriously considered Artest and I'm sure that none of them would have mortgaged their future for Artest.

The same with a re-building team...where you'd have to add the 'disruptive' factor of Artest which would be more likely to occur on a losing team.

I think that Miami would have been the only "real" contender to consider this trade and they didn't have much to give.

Bottomline, most teams were wary of Artest's behavior which greatly diminshed his value - IMHO.

[AHF]

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Belkins complaint was that A.S. wants to sign players while we're in the midst of a court battle and lower the value of the franchise. The courts give us room to work by saying we can get deals up to 4 years and the cap. Do you think our owners will even try to spend up to the cap and pick up some 4 year deals? Then Belkin can once again point the finger and say, " the only reason they didn't get bigger contracts was because this is what the court allowed.

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When could Belkin point the finger on this, though? The trial court setup the current guidelines for running the franchise during the appeal. Is Belking going to come back and ask for more significant restrictions? Doubtful. If he doesn't the only time he would make this argument is if the Atlanta Spirit Group tried to get the restrictions lifted. Also doubtful in light of the how they came about.

The future of this franchise will be decided on the appeal or through a buyout negotiated between the parties. Nothing we do will affect the issues on appeal if we stay within the guidelines. Likewise, the price of poker isn't likely to change much based on these restrictions.

[Lascar78]

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Total- 86.6868

So the answer would be yes, a lot more. Of course, I really doubt someone would give him that.

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Me too. But it goes to show that there is no reason to say that Al would not have considered walking because of the extra money guaranteed by an extra year.

[Diesel]

My point is still true.

You're just trying to change the subject once again.

So allow me to help you.

According to Mullin, we could have had Troy Murphy in exchange for AL.

Skillwise, Murphy is as good a scorer and a better rebounder than Al.

According to reports, the Lakers were offering Mihm, 1st, Filler.

According to reports, Minnesota had an offer for Al.

Just because our owners prefer to save MONEY and take a first it doesn't mean that we didn't get what we wanted. This is what THE OWNERS wanted.

[Diesel]

I certainly realize that you know more about this area than I do.

However, I was thought that what we do even now has a bearing on how the appeals process go. Because the carrying out of the contract was cut and dry. We didn't meet the deadline so Belkin gets a chance to buy the team. It's really the grace of the court to hear our argument. I would just believe that our owners wouldn't want to disrupt those graces by continuing to upset Belkin to the point that he would have evidence that we're not trying to adhere to the court ruling and try to paint the A.S. owners as a group who continuously try to break the rules.

[exodus]

According to reports the Hawks were offered Nene and 2 future 1st round picks for Al before the deadline.

Of course none of those deals has the value of Artest.

[Diesel]

You've been heeing and hawing about what we should have done at the break. Unfortunately you have absolutely no idea what was offered at the deadline. NONE.. yet, you come here and hee and haw as if you saw the paperwork.

Now, i did see Mullin quoted about Murphy. That's why I quoted him directly. However, it seems to me that all of you pundits who live and die by hoopshype have to understand that it makes no sense for Denver to offer Nene and 2 first rounders for Al and then to turn around and Sign Nene for 60 million dollars without making a deal for AL. Does that make any sense to you? Of course it does... who am I fooling, you don't think, you just regurgitate.

[exodus]

The one thing I am fairly certain of is that Artest was offered straight up for Al. That deal trumps any "reported" deal that has been mention since. And the fact that Indy is trying to get Al now merely confirms the interest that they expressed months ago.