An Interesting Question

[TexasPete]

I think this season JJ has been the franchise, almost the entire reason we are competitive. Yes, Lue has been very good but JJ is the straw that stirs the drink. However, what if the JJ deal had fallen through? Besides the JJ deal, just how successful an architect has BK been? We would still have Diaw and a late 1st round pick from the last draft. But acquiring Speedy looks flat out like a BAD move. Lo also looks like a poor move because if he wasn't here a better young talent in Solomon Jones would have his minutes. But, without JJ, we stink pretty bad and we may just have to find that out the hard way. Those calf strains can be tough, and easy to re-injure.

My question to all HSers is: Without the JJ trade is BK really been a good GM? Because without JJ this team is WEAK.

[Lrenfro]

I am just going to through my week two cents in here. Imho when you have a Sun it makes stars seem a little dull. That being said whenever you have a superstar someone that would otherwise have shined due to necessity takes a back seat. To use another metaphor if you are right-handed, you use your right hand so much that your left hand does not get as strong. This is because it is not forced to live up to its potential. I think that the absence of JJ (the right hand) would have forced the left hand (JS, MW, JC, ECT). To say that Bk did a bad job would be inconclusive at this juncture.

[GoDawgs21]

Jon Barry for Lue ?

I've posted previously the last 4 drafts and teams avg. drafting positon and what kind of picks the teams have gotten. Say what you want about our drafts, they may not be the player you ideally wanted, but he is one of 3 GM's without a bust.

Joe Dumars won GM of the year. What did he do? He picked up Richard Hamilton for Jerry Stackhouse which at the time looked horrible. Got Billups which nobody liked. Then drafted Prince. He also drafted Darko, now letting Wallace go. I just wonder if in the next year if we are a playoff team what these deals will look like. For a year or so it looked like Lue for Barry was meaningless, but now look. It's been 18 games with Speedy who is coming back, and appearently the knee thing isn't cronic its a temporary thing. Give it a full year before you dismiss it.

[Joker]

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Jon Barry for Lue ?

I've posted previously the last 4 drafts and teams avg. drafting positon and what kind of picks the teams have gotten. Say what you want about our drafts, they may not be the player you ideally wanted, but he is one of 3 GM's without a bust.

Joe Dumars won GM of the year. What did he do? He picked up Richard Hamilton for Jerry Stackhouse which at the time looked horrible. Got Billups which nobody liked. Then drafted Prince. He also drafted Darko, now letting Wallace go. I just wonder if in the next year if we are a playoff team what these deals will look like. For a year or so it looked like Lue for Barry was meaningless, but now look. It's been 18 games with Speedy who is coming back, and appearently the knee thing isn't cronic its a temporary thing. Give it a full year before you dismiss it.

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Jon Berry is now a commentator on ESPN.. I seen him not to long ago..

[TexasPete]

He has certainly not had a bust. But he has consistently failed to get the great player as well. It seems that BK selects the good player, never the great one. I wonder what things would be like with Deron Williams, or Luol Deng, or a Brandon Roy, a Monta Ellis, a Paul Milsap.

I think his FA signings need a lot of work. He is better at the draft (I give him a B) than free agency. I look at guys like Lo and Speedy, and combine them with guys he really tried hard to get but failed (K-Mart, Dampier, Ilgauskas etc). Speedy was as big a bust as I could ever imagine. I also hear people saying how diligent BK is about examining medical records (reason we didn't consider Roy) and wonder how this chronic knee condition wasn't caught. How does Speedy manage to hide his knee problem? I can't imagine he was totally free of pain and just showed up in camp with it.

It seems that every time we get a chance to really make the bold move, we make a Speedy or Lo move. A move that really doesn't get you anywhere. We don't go after a Wilcox, we go after a Lo...why not be more bold? Our roster is JJ and a bunch of either young but not ready or older and pretty lousy. And my honest question is "Does BK really know how to put together a great team, or is he a one step forward, one step back GM"? I think that's a fair question. And even though I'm not an AI fan...that would at least be a bold move.

[Diesel]

That's like asking without Duncan, what kind of Coach is Poppovich..or Bird/Jones...

The truth is that BK failed in a few Drafts and passed in a few others.

JJ makes BK look like a genius when it comes to trades...

FAcy wise, BK has struggled...

However, let the season speak for itself!

[GoDawgs21]

NBASUPERSTAR, after reading your other moronic post, I questioned your watching the NBA for 8 years and Hawks fan for 9, but now I know it.

The question was what other moves has BK done. The answer, wasnt we should trade Lue for Barry now. The answer was we got Lue from Houston by trading them Barry right before he retired.

I brought this up because TP mentioned that Lue was one of our surprises and contributors. Just saying at the time of the deal nobody even cared. Like the Detriot deals, but give it some time and look how it might turn out.

Please think before you act.

[GoDawgs21]

TP, yes BK could go after these guys, but what if they dont want to come???????? We got LO late after seeing what the money we had to spend (not the cap, but what the courts appeased by way of Belkin and owners agreeing to) he more then likely wanted to play here. We needed a veteran presence and he wanted to be here. We dont need attitudes on the team that I am here for a paycheck and thats it.

You say Damp and Kmart, note we never offered KMart the max thats why he didnt come. Secondly, we never made an offical offer to Dampier, do you not remember Buck and Kincaid lambasting BK for not tossing money at him. It was rumored because we were under the cap, but it was never actually brought about.

Lastly, did you not even read my article or the Sekou article that said Speedy's knee problem was not CRONIC, but temporary. The team preferad him to rest so he could completely get over the injury, and it would be lagging all season. Speedy came out and said he wanted to play both the Sea and Den games but was told by the coaches he would be needed late into the season, and they didnt want him having a nagging injury all year.

[Diesel]

is that in terms of trades and FAcy, I don't think any of us can truly say what limitations BK has had. For Instance, we know that it was ownerships (Belkin) wish to start totally from scratch when BK took over.

We know that Belkin opposed many other trades including the JJ trade.

We know that Belkin put a court order stop to our FAcy period this year...

All in all, it's hard to say what moves (outside of the draft) were forced and what moves were BK's. For instance, I don't think it was BK's choice to take Willis and Anderson in his first year here. Seemed more like ownership trying to find a match for the fans. Antoine Walker is another one of those question marks... SEEMS like a Belkin guy!

It's just hard.

[Johnnybravo4]

The worst part is that we could have gotten JR. Smith for a bag of balls. We sure could have used him to fill in for JJ right about now.

[TexasPete]

That is true. I'm not bashing BK, I just think it is an issue that can be debated...how effective is he overall? And we certainly don't know his limitations with the owners. But, what if he had taken a PG like Deron over Marvin? Or, Deng over Chill? Deng has bloomed...

We will never know, but its an interesting question. I would give BK an honest grade at this point of a B-...but that could go up or down depending on how things play out.

[TheDude]

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He has certainly not had a bust. But he has consistently failed to get the great player as well. It seems that BK selects the good player, never the great one. I wonder what things would be like with Deron Williams, or Luol Deng, or a Brandon Roy, a Monta Ellis, a Paul Milsap.

I think his FA signings need a lot of work. He is better at the draft (I give him a B) than free agency. I look at guys like Lo and Speedy, and combine them with guys he really tried hard to get but failed (K-Mart, Dampier, Ilgauskas etc). Speedy was as big a bust as I could ever imagine. I also hear people saying how diligent BK is about examining medical records (reason we didn't consider Roy) and wonder how this chronic knee condition wasn't caught. How does Speedy manage to hide his knee problem? I can't imagine he was totally free of pain and just showed up in camp with it.

It seems that every time we get a chance to really make the bold move, we make a Speedy or Lo move. A move that really doesn't get you anywhere. We don't go after a Wilcox, we go after a Lo...why not be more bold? Our roster is JJ and a bunch of either young but not ready or older and pretty lousy. And my honest question is "Does BK really know how to put together a great team, or is he a one step forward, one step back GM"? I think that's a fair question. And even though I'm not an AI fan...that would at least be a bold move.

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i think with the speedy issue, he was trying to go after the best point he could find. as we all know, he threw the sky at cassell (wouldnt that be nice right now) and he refuted so he went for another solid point.

[TexasPete]

JB, you have an interesting point about JR Smith. There is a category of player that is both very good and available for a discount for various reasons. Its like buying a good stock at a discount. And it seems that BK does so little...he is always content to just sit back and draft...or sign less than desirable players like Lo.

Wilcox was also available for a discount...3 year contract. We never take a risk or make a bold move.

[AHF]

Wilcox wasn't available until after we drafted Shelden but we did miss out on a cheap opportunity to land JR Smith. An example of a discount player with upside we did get in FA is Zaza.

I think Diesel is right about not knowing the restrictions BK has been under except for the ones that were publically announced by way of the Court. I think GoDawgs is off in terms of the Kenyon Martin deal, though. We did offer him a max deal.

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Martin left Atlanta with a maximum contract for about $85 million over six years, according to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution quoting an unnamed person it said was familiar with the offer.

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http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/...wks-offer_x.htm

[GoDawgs21]

Zaza, wasnt a discount????

I agree with you actually for once TP which is absurdly scary, i give BK about a B overall. People get on here and act like he is Babcock or something, he is slowly getting everything in order. Patience people, you act like a 5 yr old.

For everyone's whining, we are actually a competitaive team besides 3 games (Philly, Orl, Sad) we have been ahead at sme pont every game and in contintion to win coming down the stretch. Please show me were in th last 7 years we can say we had a team that was NBA competeitve night in and night out or at least 17/20 games. We are a young team, and yet we are still hanging around with age and maturatiy late this season or next we will win those close ones. It takes baby steps folks.

3 years is a relativley quick turn around, look at Boston, Chi, Clips, Sac, Den, etc. they all took about 4 years. Give it time, none of those teams started from scratch scratch, they at least had several pieces to trade or do whatever wth. BK got nothing and is at least building the team. For the poster that said we were stuck in quicksand, I am puzzled. 13 wins, 26 wins, on pace for 34 so far with all of our injuries its no stretch to think for a better finish, so maybe 38 or 40 this year. I dont think that is quicksandish.

[terrynoonan]

Stop saying Craig is a solid pg. He is absolute garbage. BK is supposed to know these type of things. He can't shoot, pass or penetrate. He is the worst free-agent signing in Atlanta Hawks history.

[Johnnybravo4]

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Zaza, wasnt a discount????

I agree with you actually for once TP which is absurdly scary, i give BK about a B overall. People get on here and act like he is Babcock or something, he is slowly getting everything in order. Patience people, you act like a 5 yr old.

For everyone's whining, we are actually a competitaive team besides 3 games (Philly, Orl, Sad) we have been ahead at sme pont every game and in contintion to win coming down the stretch. Please show me were in th last 7 years we can say we had a team that was NBA competeitve night in and night out or at least 17/20 games. We are a young team, and yet we are still hanging around with age and maturatiy late this season or next we will win those close ones. It takes baby steps folks.

3 years is a relativley quick turn around, look at Boston, Chi, Clips, Sac, Den, etc. they all took about 4 years. Give it time, none of those teams started from scratch scratch, they at least had several pieces to trade or do whatever wth. BK got nothing and is at least building the team. For the poster that said we were stuck in quicksand, I am puzzled. 13 wins, 26 wins, on pace for 34 so far with all of our injuries its no stretch to think for a better finish, so maybe 38 or 40 this year. I dont think that is quicksandish.

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It is not 3 years it is 8. Just because it wasn't on BK's watch doesnt mean we forget about them.

[terrynoonan]

You're too smart for that. 34 wins is terrible, when it should be at least 44. We are still incompetent in so many areas. No improvement in eight years could be described as quicksand. Especially if Belkin wins and moves the team.

BTW - Babcock made the playoffs. He got guys like Mookie, Smitty, Deke, Ty, Grant, etc.. WTF? I woulk kill to have Babcock back. If it were him or BK. The choice is obvious.

[AHF]

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Zaza, wasnt a discount????

I agree with you actually for once TP which is absurdly scary, i give BK about a B overall. People get on here and act like he is Babcock or something, he is slowly getting everything in order. Patience people, you act like a 5 yr old.

For everyone's whining, we are actually a competitaive team besides 3 games (Philly, Orl, Sad) we have been ahead at sme pont every game and in contintion to win coming down the stretch. Please show me were in th last 7 years we can say we had a team that was NBA competeitve night in and night out or at least 17/20 games. We are a young team, and yet we are still hanging around with age and maturatiy late this season or next we will win those close ones. It takes baby steps folks.

3 years is a relativley quick turn around, look at Boston, Chi, Clips, Sac, Den, etc. they all took about 4 years. Give it time, none of those teams started from scratch scratch, they at least had several pieces to trade or do whatever wth. BK got nothing and is at least building the team. For the poster that said we were stuck in quicksand, I am puzzled. 13 wins, 26 wins, on pace for 34 so far with all of our injuries its no stretch to think for a better finish, so maybe 38 or 40 this year. I dont think that is quicksandish.

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It is not 3 years it is 8. Just because it wasn't on BK's watch doesnt mean we forget about them.

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In fairness, we have had 7 consecutive losing seasons (not counting this one).

Chicago had 5 out of 6 seasons in 8th place in the Central Division.

Boston and Denver had 8 consecutive losing seasons.

Chicago and Boston are our closest comparables.

The Clippers had two runs of 12 consecutive losing seasons.

The Kings had 16 consecutive losing seasons.

[Johnnybravo4]

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Zaza, wasnt a discount????

I agree with you actually for once TP which is absurdly scary, i give BK about a B overall. People get on here and act like he is Babcock or something, he is slowly getting everything in order. Patience people, you act like a 5 yr old.

For everyone's whining, we are actually a competitaive team besides 3 games (Philly, Orl, Sad) we have been ahead at sme pont every game and in contintion to win coming down the stretch. Please show me were in th last 7 years we can say we had a team that was NBA competeitve night in and night out or at least 17/20 games. We are a young team, and yet we are still hanging around with age and maturatiy late this season or next we will win those close ones. It takes baby steps folks.

3 years is a relativley quick turn around, look at Boston, Chi, Clips, Sac, Den, etc. they all took about 4 years. Give it time, none of those teams started from scratch scratch, they at least had several pieces to trade or do whatever wth. BK got nothing and is at least building the team. For the poster that said we were stuck in quicksand, I am puzzled. 13 wins, 26 wins, on pace for 34 so far with all of our injuries its no stretch to think for a better finish, so maybe 38 or 40 this year. I dont think that is quicksandish.

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It is not 3 years it is 8. Just because it wasn't on BK's watch doesnt mean we forget about them.

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In fairness, we have had 7 consecutive losing seasons (not counting this one).

Chicago had 5 out of 6 seasons in 8th place in the Central Division.

Boston and Denver had 8 consecutive losing seasons.

Chicago and Boston are our closest comparables.

The Clippers had two runs of 12 consecutive losing seasons.

The Kings had 16 consecutive losing seasons.

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Chicago was rebuilding after having 6 championships. Boston has like 132 championships. We are more like the Knicks.