Back on the Table...

[mrhonline]

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The more ping pong balls we have the better chance WE have...and that's all that should matter to us.

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And teaching young players to play hard regardless of the circumstances, to learn to win, and to build upon their growth is irrelevant?

Says you.

(Also, your argument is misleading. Unless the Hawks catch Memphis or Boston, the fact remains that they are still more likely to give the Suns the pick than any other option).

[Guest Walter]

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(Also, your argument is misleading. Unless the Hawks catch Memphis or Boston, the fact remains that they are still

more likely

to give the Suns the pick than any other option).

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...in the form of more ping pong balls "misleading". If anything your characterization that the roughly 50/50 odds of keeping a pick are poor AND that a 50/50 chance at a top 3 pick doesn't reflect DJlaysitup's position that he simply wants better odds of keeping a top 3 pick is misleading. Seriously, who wouldn't want a roughly 50% chance at keeping a top 3 pick?!? Considering we're what, at a 10% chance of keeping the pick right now that looks VERY good.

W

[Guest Walter]

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That's management's job. Personel decisions.

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No, that's the coach's job.

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Actually it's both. BK can put people on the IR. Woody may distribute the minutes of those available, but if he doesn't do what ownership or "management" "asks", I don't see any reason not to fire him, do you?

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Explain to me again why another piss-poor finish is good for Woodson?

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Explain to me why it matters what Woody thinks?

W

[Diesel]

Exactly.

i would rather face the reprecutions of this team just missing the playoffs than those of this team tanking and not wanting to be a team anymore!

But then again, we tank, we lose, Walter gets what he wants... A TOTALLY new rebuild... And Atlanta goes the route of the Clipps 83-2003.

[DavidSomerset]

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If you cheer for a team to lose, you aren't a fan.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out, chief.

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jdu00743, let's be clear here. The only difference between you and I or most any other pro-tanker is our relative desire for the team, be it moderate or significant success, and what we believe will best, meaning most likely, quickest, etc. achieve that.

I want significant success for this franchise. I want to contend. That means I want to win, even more than those who would settle for mediocrity of any kind.

Wanting that and knowing enough about the NBA to make the very reasonable statements that this team will not contend remotely as designed and this ownership and our capitol situation all but preclude improving significantly through draft, trade, or FAcy withøut a top 3 pick, I am soundly, unquestionably a fan. If we are arguing relative fandom based upon my desires for this franchise, I am a better fan than you as I want more for it and have a reasonable, legit plan through which to attempt to get it. However, I don't play the unpatriotic fan card unless someone goes all fascist fan on me. You aren't a fascist are you?

W

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The point of any and every sport is to win. When, as a team, you choose not to win (for whatever benefit) or as a fan, you cheer for your team not to win, you are completely missing the meaning of the game.

It's the most pathetic thing I've ever seen in my life.

If you don't want this team to win, and if you ever cheer for them to lose, then please leave. This team already has crappy enough of fans...

We don't need idiots who want us to lose around here. It's further negativity that is not needed.

If you want us to lose, go find a new team.

[Guest Walter]

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The point of any and every sport is to win. When, as a team, you choose not to win (for whatever benefit) or as a fan, you cheer for your team not to win, you are completely missing the meaning of the game.

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No the point is to win titles. It's not illegal or even unethical to tank.

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It's the most pathetic thing I've ever seen in my life.

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Then you've had a good life then, one where you slept through the last 9 years.

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If you don't want this team to win, and if you ever cheer for them to lose, then please leave. This team already has crappy enough of fans...

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If you don't want them to win A TITLE then please leave.

[quote[We don't need idiots who want us to lose around here. It's further negativity that is not needed.

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[DJlaysitup]

C'mon Diesel...aren't you one of the posters who curses Bob Sura for winning us games late in the year that lost us ping pong balls before.

What good will three more wins do us next year if we miss the playoffs and lose 50 ping pong balls in the process? The rules of the "game" haven't changed. Just one or two losses could mean a lot.

..and...again, you don't tank by telling the players to tank. You "rest" some guys at specific times and try some new combinations. Tou can't lose em all...but maybe a few more.

As far as what Woody would want versus what BK would want, I'm more and more suspicious that they are totally in cahoots and BK can pretty much tell Woody what to do.

Heck our young plauers aren't "learning to win"....we are losing. The post-allstar break run for the playoffs isn't panning out - primarily due to our weakness in the paint. So the logical thing to do is anything you can to improve that weakness. Getting a top three pick this year would be a big help. Certainly not guarranteed - but why not increase your odds if possible?

[DavidSomerset]

If I had to choose between the Hawks intentionally tanking this season and it resulting in a championship due to us losing on purpose, vs. us playing our guts out and never winning a championship, I would choose the 2nd option.

I want a championship, but I hope our team doesn't "sell their soul" to get it. That goes completely against the entire principle of competition.

I want us to get it through hard work and learning to win, not by learning to lose.

[DrReality]

And if they did take: A. We wouln't want them on our team and/or B: they could live withselves if they were real competitors.

[Guest Walter]

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If I had to choose between the Hawks intentionally tanking this season and it resulting in a championship due to us losing on purpose, vs. us playing our guts out and never winning a championship, I would choose the 2nd option.

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Good grief your are a moralist. This is team sports not life. Get your pathos out of this 00743.

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I want a championship

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No you don't. You just said you wanted "the good fight" more.

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but I hope our team doesn't "sell their soul" to get it.

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What soul? What are you talking about? Strange.

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That goes completely against the entire principle of competition.

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Competition is dirty, my friend. I'll hook my defender as many times as I can get away with it. The lottery is entirely part of this sport and how poor team manage to get better. Use it. Don't appeal to morality. Nobody cares how insanely moral a 30 win team is.

Mind you, we've tried to tank in the recent past. We sat Al out the remainder of a season when he could play. We also made trades for injured players and nobodies (Sura inculded). Did we lose our soul then? Did we go against the principle of competition? I didn't hear you complaining about hell fire and damnation then.

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I want us to get it through hard work and learning to win, not by learning to lose.

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No, you just don't want us to get it. We don't have a real chance without keeping our pick. You do know this.

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[DJlaysitup]

Please...Please...Please...understand that the PLAYERS don't need to be (and shouldn't be) involved. That would be stupid. Word would get out. Woody and BK would "finesse" the deal.

As I posted a month or so ago...Woody goes to JJ and says he is going to reduce his minutes because he's afraid he's wearing him out (or something like that) and that he wants to try some new combinations. He also hints that a night off here and there could be good for him.

Substitutions can help too. Just like when many MW fans were complaining that Woody took out Marvin when he was hot last night - that's a good technique.

Again - of course you never tell players that you are trying to tank. Heck, as much as we complain about Woody's substitution patterns, he may be tanking already. Josh Smith is the wild card.

[DavidSomerset]

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Competition is dirty, my friend.

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You probably would support using steroids as well.

Heck, if you can get away with it, why not??

Competition is dirty, gotta get some mud on yourself before you can win a title, right?

[DJlaysitup]

Never go into politics jdu.

[Guest Walter]

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Competition is dirty, my friend.

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You probably would support using steroids as well.

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Steroids are illegal, tanking isn't. Teams do it every year. REMEMBER we did it three and two years ago, but why the silence from you about our moral decay as a franchise?

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Competition is dirty, gotta get some mud on yourself before you can win a title, right?

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We've already got mud on ourselves and several pies in the face thanks to BK.

P.S. I never said tanking was pretty, but if we do it right this time, there's a 50% chance that mud turns into a mud mask and we clean up real nice into a beautiful title contender.

W