[censored] this. Let's get into position for LEBRON

[archie44]

Thoughts:

1. This ain't working.

2. Stotts is pitiful. He has no idea what to do with this sorry bunch. He's not a bad guy or a bad coach, but he knows he's getting screwed by having to coach this group.

3. Instead of dumping salaries for nothing, let's dump these duds for unconditional FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICKS.

4. Let's get into position to get LEBRON JAMES. This franchise has NO chance with this group. I, along with many people on this board and the ENTIRE Hawks organization, have been wrong about this roster. It's a waste.

5. Do we want to start over? No. But do we have a choice? No.

6. Look at Golden State. They get Arenas, Murphy, and Richardson in ONE draft. More solid players in one night drafted than we've had in a decade.

7. Trade Shareef, Big Dog, Theo, AND JT. They don't want to be here, so forget them. Get something in return. Get someone who WANTS to play defense. That's why the SAR for Juwan Howard deal proposed by Diesel is not a bad thought. I would do it before you could pronounce Shareef's name.

I'm frustrated. It's tough to lose again and again and again.

[Diesel]

Shareef/Terry/Hendu

for

Howard/Harvey/2 unconditional First (Denver's 2003, LAC's)

Theo/Howard/Grob/Glover/Wilks

These guys would play harder than what we have now. Plus we'd be in the race for Darko, James, Anthony, Ridnour, Schortsianitis, Gaines.

But mainly, being in a position to resign Howard. Sign a young player. And getting a few quality chemistry players. Smith, Anderson (vet Min) etc..

[kelston827]

Kiki is not an idiot.

His whole goal the past two seasons has been to get the Nuggets out from under their big contracts. Why in the world would he trade an ending contract for $22 million in PFs from us?? That's right, he wouldn't.

Not to mention that the trade doesn't make sense for the Hawks, either.

But then again, I've come to expect that from your trades.

[Diesel]

Kiki has money under the cap coming.

However, what FA would he be able to attract?

Would any of the FA's he can attract be better than Shareef and JT? Kiki is no idiot... But you can't get two allstar talents on his team that would be better than that.

Also, explain why it doesn't make sense for us? That blanket statement doesn't hold unless you can back it up.

[kelston827]

Why doesn't it make sense for us???

Let me count the ways.

#1 You're trading away our two best players. A hometown guy and our go-to guy. Two young players that play at an all-star level.

#2 You're trading for an unsigned guy, an unproven guy and draft picks that could turn into busts.

#3 You're not addressing major team needs, such as better team defense, better ball handling, better outside shooting, and chemistry.

#4 This team does not need to be blown up, no matter how much you may want to.

#5 You think the team lacks fan support now, wait and see what happens after trading thetwo most popular players.

#6 Where does your scoring come from other than Big Dog and Howard?? Don't say Dion either, as a stretch of 8 solid games isn't even close to enough to convince me that he can keep this level of play up for an entire season.

Finally, it makes no sense for Denver. Period. They take on $22 million in PFs, a position they already have filled for the next 10 years with Hilario. They would NEVER trade not one but two lottery picks.

Is that reason enough for you??

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

#1 You're trading away our two best players. A hometown guy and our go-to guy. Two young players that play at an all-star level.

---

Yes, that's true. But in order to get something you have to give something. Also. Haven't you noticed that Terry doesn't fit. He's not a PG. He's a SG. However, we have NO ball handlers that can make up for his inconsistency. Lastly. At the end of the season, we may Lose Terry to FAcy anyway. I doubt we go into the luxury tax to save him. He turned down a 5 yr 36 million dollar contract. I think that's very fair. However, he believed that he's worth more. I don't see it. I don't see us affording him.

In reply to:

---

#2 You're trading for an unsigned guy, an unproven guy and draft picks that could turn into busts.

---

Without Risk, there can be no success. I can imagine that the same thing was said to Jerry West when he said... Let's trade Vlade for Kobe. I guess the same thing was said to John Gabrielle when he said... Lets get rid of Penny, Nick, and Scott for draft picks and start over.

In reply to:

---

#3 You're not addressing major team needs, such as better team defense, better ball handling, better outside shooting, and chemistry.

---

Actually.. YES I did.

SAR and Terry are our worst two defenders. Howard plays better defense than SAR... This is true and KNOWN. I suggest signing Wilks to a contract because he also plays better defense than JT. This is true and known. The chemistry will be much better because...

1. We'd have a true PG in the PG spot.

2. We'd have better defenders.

3. We'd have a draft choice to strengthen our frontcourt and 2 position.

In reply to:

---

#4 This team does not need to be blown up, no matter how much you may want to.

---

I agree... However, this team can't stay together either. JT has value. He will walk away in the summer. Reason being is that we have too many high dollar contracts. With all the money that the Hawks have spent, there needs to be some WINS piling up. This team can't stay together because the chemistry is not coming together fast enough. Not fast enough to justify paying JT or Glover or DJ any more money.

In reply to:

---

#5 You think the team lacks fan support now, wait and see what happens after trading thetwo most popular players.

---

Attendance have never been about Popularity. It's been about perception. JT and SAR will never fill up Phillips arena. What the fans want and what will bring them back is a whole new Front office. One that Cares like Cuban. The fans want lower ticket prices until the Hawks have proved that they are worth spending money to see. Right now, the Hawks are like the movie "Last action Hero". You can have everyone's favorite actors in it... However, if the movie sucks top to bottom, it doesn't matter. Maybe Labron James is what the Hawks need. Maybe he's the Mike Vick that can fill up the Phil. I think he'd do more for the attendance than SAR and JT.

In reply to:

---

#6 Where does your scoring come from other than Big Dog and Howard?? Don't say Dion either, as a stretch of 8 solid games isn't even close to enough to convince me that he can keep this level of play up for an entire season.

---

Why not Dion? He is a scorer. Has been all his career. However, that's not the only place. It's a matter of Chemistry. I believe that with better Gaurd Play... The points will be there. Right now, we have Terry, SAR, GRob, and Glover... But the assists and fast break points and every other thing that says how good your offense is working are very low. We are not cohesive. That's PG problems. Mainly that JT is not one. For the past three yrs, we've seen other guys play the PG position and the team look well. JT is a SG. Until we come to grips with that reality, we'll constantly be scratching our heads wondering why 3 20 ppg players can't outscore anybody.

In reply to:

---

Finally, it makes no sense for Denver. Period. They take on $22 million in PFs, a position they already have filled for the next 10 years with Hilario. They would NEVER trade not one but two lottery picks.

---

Yes it does. They get more out of this deal than they would with FAcy. SAR is still allstar material. JT is close. Yes, they lock up salary.. but they also have something to build with.

As far a PF.... I can gaurantee you that if this trade were to happen, Reef would slide to Sf. What would you do with a Frontcourt of:

Camby/Halario/SAR?

They'd outrebound, outscore...

As far as JT. Denver has this other foriegn SG (Tskitsville). He's a SG converted from the PG. Just what Terry needs.

Also...

It's only one lottery pick (possibly).

The second is LACs pick which is protected to 21 this yr. 15 next yr and so on. That's fine. I'd wait on that to get to top 10 anyway.

[Guest]

Diesel,I couldn't agree more.

[Traceman]

He might have played PG and SG a long time ago but certainly not in the NBA.

First you say the LAC pick is unconditional and then you say it is protected. That is a VERY significant difference given their record.

Like I said, I'd rather keep JT but I would STRONGLY consider Reef/Hendu for Howard.

[Diesel]

About LAC pick.. .It's protected, but I would like Denver to give it to us with NO Conditions.

[Traceman]

That is top 21 protected, top 15 protected, etc? It's already protected about as good as it can get!

[Diesel]

They may put conditions on the deal itself.

For instance.

This yr...

Sacramento receives Detroit's first round pick via Atlanta (2003 or 2004, Detroit's option) (Dickau 062602) (Turkcan) via Houston (Terence Morris trade 062701)

We made a trade with Houston for a first rounder. They gave us a protected pick from Detroit... But It's at Detroit option when they give it up. We traded that pick to Sacramento.

This type of dealing tells me that it's possible for Denver to add anything they want to the trade. They made trade us a first rounder... their future 1st or LAC's whichever is higher? I would rather just take LAC's straight. Because I know LAC will be back in the basement again.

[TheDude]

I'm fed the [censored] up..I mean it looked like we may be turning it around before the allstar break so we had a chance to run for it afterwards. Then we lost to a suckazz team by letting a nonallstar dump almost 40 on us....

PETE!!YOU NEED TO MAKE A TRADE NOW!!!IT'S LIKE OUR TEAM DOESN'T CARE!!!TRADE GLENNROBINSON AND THEO RATLIFF!!!!DO SOMETHING!!! NOW!!!

[Guest]

Has anyone thought, even considered, that Stotts is doing the right thing?

He knows we're not going to make teh playoffs this year, so he's benching guys when they [censored] up, when they don't play D, etc. He's saying hey, play in the system, with your head, or you won't get pt, regardless. IMO, Glenn is the only person that he doesn't come down on quite as hard, and JT gets the most of it...but perhaps it's a good thing. We're not a winning team right now, why not instill some discipline and toughness in these guys, make them play right

[OklahomaHawk]

Archie brings up several good points, but that's nothing

new, Archie always does a great job, both on here and

on the Braves' site, and I agree with most of what he

said, but I do have to disagree with him on one point:

Archie said himself that Golden State drafted more

talent in one night than the Hawks have in a decade.

I agree with him, Babs couldn't draft his way out of

a [censored], IMHO. Even when he makes a seemingly

good move it turns out crappy.

So until we get some people in charge of the Hawks who

have a clue, it would be an even bigger disaster to make

any changes. Pete, etc. should not be allowed to make

any trades, etc. We have some good players, etc. right

now they just don't good fit together well. Once the Hawks have cleaned house and brought in some real basketball people, then they can start making some good changes.

That's just my opinion.

[KB21]

Just remember though. Gary St. Jean is probably the worst GM in the entire NBA, and he basically fell onto the trio of rookies he got last year. A blind squirrel will find an acorn every once in a while. How long has Golden State been a losing team? How many lottery picks have they had in the past decade? How many of those picks have panned out?

The Hawks have just dicked around and traded their picks over the past ten years. You can't falt them for taking Jason Terry in 1999. In looking at upside rather than need, maybe you take Cory Maggette instead, but Jason Terry was considered one of the top 3 point guards and the best defensive guard in that draft (imagine that). I don't think you can fault them for taking DerMarr Johnson in 2000. He had nothing but upside and was a 6-9 guard that could do a lot of things well. Had Atlanta not traded their 2001 pick for SAR, they probably would have taken Shane Battier. A role play with a top 3 pick basically. Blown pick? Maybe, depending upon if passing on Jason Richardson would have been a wise move. The Hawks 2002 1st round pick was traded in the Lo Wright deal. They could have possibly gotten Amare Stoudamire.

[OklahomaHawk]

True

But like I said Babs needs to go because besides

his ill-advised moves, even when he does something

right, it still seems to turn out wrong. I think it's

just time to start over, but it won't help to start

over with the same people making important decisions

and we shouldn't wait till he's traded off our players

and gotten nothing in return, we should give the new

people, (real basketball people) some chips to play

with when they get here.

Like I said just my opinions.

[KB21]

I agree, but the team has one big problem in making a change right now. That big for sale sign that is in the window!

I'm sure Kasten is going to hold off on making any major management changes until he knows what HIS future with the team is going to be, and I haven't heard any confirmed news on a group being interested in buying the team.

The only thing that is out there is a radio rumor that the St. Louis Blues owner is interested in buying the team and moving them back to St. Louis. Which, IMO, would serve all you that live in Atlanta and don't go to the games right! You don't deserve a team if you aren't going to support them when things are down.

[OklahomaHawk]

I agree, but even though I live in Oklahoma (hence the moniker) I'd sure hate to see them move to St. Louis,

although we did win a title in St. Louis if memory serves.

Fans are fickle everywhere, maybe more in Atlanta than

in most places, but if you put a winner on the court

they WILL come, remember the days of the old

Atlanta Air Force??? Who was our coach then???

Some little guy who coached like a BIG guy!!!

[Diesel]

GS must have good scouts because they have always drafted very well.

They drafted...

Webber, Mullin, T. Hardaway, Spreewell, V. Carter, and Troy Murphy.

The problem with GS is when they trade. They make stupid trades. They are like the Anti-Atlanta... I'm not saying that every draft pick is a good one. I still don't understand Adonal Foyle. However, that's about the only one I can call that doesn't make sense.

[Guest]

I was about to post something similar myself - while I still think Babcock's tenure is and should be done, it's widely known among the faithful that this team is understaffed from top to bottom as well.

That makes drafting sorta difficult (we have few advanced scouts, overseas, etc.)

Makes game prep difficult (we're short at least one asst. coach)

so some of our biggest complaints aren't really the fault of the most obvious choices