Should we be Mad or Glad???

[Highpozt]

We as Hawks fan have been in misery for the last 6 years and I am a big enough Hawks fan that my emotions about this team are as unstable as the team is. We have watched Babcock year after year pull off big trade that I must admit looked very good at least on paper. In fact the trade for big dog had most NBA analyst saying the Hawks would be a contender in the east. I am not one to put blame on Babcock --- he was awful at first (Ed Gray, Priet Lauderdale, Cal Bowdler etc) but lately thru draft or trade it has been Steve Smith, Mookie, Jason Terry, DerMarr Johnson, Dion Glover, Theo, Kukoc, Shareef, Nazr and Big Dog. I would submit that most basketball people would consider the above list pretty good players to take chances on. The MISTAKE and still the mistake is in who Babcock gets to coach the above ballers. Just think Lon Kruger when you could of had Isiah, Mo Cheeks or Byron Scott. The sad thing is the experts all the way to the cats in the barbershop said what in the *&%$ when Babcock introduced Kruger --- who is Lon Kruger?? That still may prove to be the Hawks biggest downfall --- to let all these talented ballers go through Atlanta without even a marginal coach. Then comes Terry Stotts and again I say what is this franchise doing. Yes I know Terry deserves a shot -- but do we really want to see him show promise and have him around another three years like Kruger. I think you see a great ability to coach really soon in a coaches career and Stott has given no indication he is that coach. The only thing Babcock has not tried with all this talent is a coach to match. The closest we got to a very good coach was Lenny Wilkens and ironically that is the last time we saw the playoffs.

[Diesel]

You make a very good point.

A good think could come out of this. A whole changing of the gaurd. For financial reasons and for basketball reasons... we may lose Stotts, Babcock, and Kasten. IN order to sell the team, the owners might move to a more plausible group to head up the Atlanta Hawks front office and coaching staff.

Personally, I would like to see Fratello back.

Personally, I would like to see a Strong Smart GM/President. If Isiah were looking for out of Indy... Him being GM President wouldn't be a bad thing to me. He knows this game and he's ambitious. The problem with Kasten is that he lost his ambition. The problem with Babcock is that he doesn't know this game (draft picks prove that).

Even if that's not possible right now... This season could lead to a changing of the gaurd.

[Highpozt]

A clean sweep is what would change the whole approach of this team. Arthur Blank with the Falcons showed would could happen with a little ambition as you stated. For starters I would like to see a coach with some fire. Secondly a owner with passion. Yes I intentionally let Babcock slide because even with the draft mistakes you can tell he is trying desperately to get a winning product and lately his choices have been good (see list above). I still think Big Dog, SAR, JT and Theo would be a super line-up with the right kind of coach. With a draft chioce in the top 10 and free agency we may have something. The problem is if Stott is not special and upper management remains in tack then I am afraid we could bring in Shaq and Kobe and still lose.

[Diesel]

Babcock made a crucial error when he made a self serving choice of selecting Lon Kruger as coach.

Babcock did everything he could not to take Isiah. Kasten wanted Isiah, but he let Babcock make the final choice. I think a second instance is what happened with Jerry West. Kasten dropped the ball there. IN both cases, our management showed that they were not winners. In Babcock's case, the sin was more evident. He was turned down by Izzo... Then he scurried to select... Uhm Uhm... Kruger. A midnight meeting with Kruger. He begged Kruger to take the job after Kruger looked like he would turn it down. The whole time... Isiah, Nate, Carlisle, Gentry, and Scott went TURNED down by the Hawks. The question is... Who has the better teams now. Given, Gentry and Nate aren't doing so well... But they've done better than Lonny K.

Regime Change is what is needed.

[KB21]

The acting owner of the Hawks, Jamie Kellner, is already on record stating that he thinks Stan is doing a great job because no other president has 3 professional teams reporting to him. The success of the Braves and the progress the Thrashers have made will keep Stan Kasten on as the President of the Turner Sports Teams. The Hawks are not going to be sold anytime soon, just as the Braves and the Thrashers aren't going to be sold anytime soon.

[Guest]

That is why this franchise will never have a shot

at being a elite franchise.This franchise was never

born to be a winner.It's as bad as the Clippers.

KB do you ever see this franchise winning a

championship or even contending for one?

I think it's rather sad that it will not ever have

the chance.

[KB21]

I've seen this team be a legitimate contender for a championship in the past when Stan was the GM and while Pete was the GM, so I see no reason to think it won't ever happen.

The only problem with the current team that stands out to me is chemistry, and I think the turnovers and the poor help defense is a function of the team's lack of chemistry.

IMO, the idea behind getting Glenn Robinson was sound, but for chemistry purposes, the player the Hawks should have gone after was Matt Harpring. Hindsight is 20/20 though, but Harpring would have brought that mid range game without having the need to shoot the ball 20 times a game. Then, the offense could have been based around a two man game with Jason Terry and Shareef Abdur-Rahim, which was working well and developing chemistry during the final half of the 2001-2002 season.

[Guest]

I've seen this team be a legitimate contender for a championship in the past when Stan was the GM and while Pete was the GM, so I see no reason to think it won't ever happen"

Mookie/Smitty/Mutombo wasn't a legit championship

contender.Pete has shown with this team he has no

vision and no understanding of the pro game as Diesel

said.

Your going to have problems when you throw together

a bad defensive team along with no stars or passers.

It's nearly impossible to win with that kind of team.

This team has never been a elite team since he has

been here besides a season or two.Pete has never

made the steps to get better.As Diesel said he never

improved over Ty Corbin at SF, and we never had a

bench either.I understand that getting Mutombo

broke the Hawks bench.We had to trade Long and

Augmon whom were both good players at the time....But surely Pete could have found away to improve on

the Hawks weaknesses, but he never did.

I want to see the team at atleast a finals contender.

Maybe you don't think I'm a true fan,but I [censored] sure

hate all the jokes that are made and am even sadder

to have to agree with them.But it's Pete and Stans

fault.Most here and fans of other teams can see the

problems with the management.Too bad AOL will not

do anything about it.

As I told Pete...If he really cared about this franchise

he'd step down so that a person with more knowledge

could step in and get things fixed.

[Highpozt]

I will be the first to admit that Babcock made some bonehead move in the past but lately player selection has not been the case. If you use the process of deduction then it appears the last time we were in the playoffs we had a decent coach Lenny Wilkens. Note I said decent --- and the team was a perennial 1st or 2nd round playoff team during his tenure. I will submit that this team is more talented than those teams were. In fact a good number of NBA so called experts thought the Hawks were a lock for the playoffs with the team Babcock assembled. At this point Babcocks flaw is not in player selection but instead he has done an atrocious job of getting a coach to lead the troops. Take Byron Scott, Adelman or Isiah with this same team and we would be in the middle of the Easten conference race. Like was stated earlier we will not likely see a cleaning house of the Hawks upper management --- so if we want to see a quick improvement I think a hands on passionate motivating coach is the quickest way we will see improvement in this team.

[KB21]

The choice of coaches was an obvious mistake, and I think blowing that team up 1999 has turned out to be a mistake as well. That should have been done over a period of time instead of getting rid of all but three players from that team in one summer.

To say Pete isn't a basketball guy is foolish though and shows that those accusing him of this do not know his history. First, he started out as a high school basketball coach before getting chances with the Bucks and two other teams as a scout. He worked himself onto Paul Silas's San Diego Clipper staff as an assistant and eventually became the Clippers director of personnel for one season, 1983. He was then hired to be the Denver Nuggets Director of Personnel in 1984. One of his first moves there was to trade Kiki Vandeweigh for Fat Lever, Wayne Cooper, Calvin Natt, and two draft picks. That 1984 Nuggets team played for the Western Conference Championship, and the Nuggets had only one losing season with Pete on staff as the Director of Personnel. Pete became the GM in 1988 for them.

Pete's weakness isn't his basketball IQ. His weakness is his ability to project young talent. The draft has always been his downfall, but he has only made a couple of bad trades when he deals for established veterans.

I'd like to see him replaced, but until I start seeing some names of GMs that are actually much better than he is, I'm willing to continue the course. Ernie Grunfield? He's yet to Gm a team to a championship. Glen Grunwald? Look at the shape the Raptors are in.

The only guys in the NBA that I see as definite improvements are Jerry West, Don Nelson, and maybe Mitch Kupchak. And I don't see us landing any of them anytime soon. Heck. The reason West didn't take the job with the Hawks was because he saw a solid core already in place, and he wanted to rebuild a team from scratch.

[Guest]

NBA so called experts thought the Hawks were a lock for the playoffs with the team Babcock assembled. At this point Babcocks flaw is not in player selection but instead he has done an atrocious job of getting a coach to lead the troops."

If Pete is so smart how come he put together such a

bad defensive team and a team that can't pass?Pete

is not a smart basketball man or else fails to under

stand what today's game is about.Denver means

nothing.This is 2003 and he has done nothing for

this franchise his whole time here.The mid 90s

teams were just a bunch of mediocre losers that

had no shot at a title.They make the second round

a few times over a mediocre Detroit team that featured

a old Dumars and a scrub like Bison Dele as it's second

and third best players.

I want to know what Pete has done to be a good a

good basketball man.What has he brought to the

Hawks franchise....NOTHING.

Just like Riley said,Reef is a 18PPG scorer on a bad

team and Pete gave up a lotto pick for that.That shows

how smart Pete is.

[Guest]

Not only are is this team bad on defense and can't

pass but they have to be one of the least athletic

teams in the league.Pete should have seen all these

faults.

Other than the fact that they have 2 20PPG scorers

this team brings little else to the table.They aren't

a good 3pt shooting team on top of that.

Pete failed to see all the faults this team would have.

[DJ_Money]

If/when Babcock is let go, I think we should stay within and promote Knight from Director of Basketball Operations to GM.

Knight has been around. Memphis has a load of talent right now, Knight is responsible for a large deal of that. He dealt 'Reef to us for Lo and BK. Then, he pulls off a great draft with Gasol and Battier.

He's long been known for his eye for talent, how much better could that 90s team been if we could have spotted some young talent out there?

This team isn't far off. If we could pick up a couple pieces through the draft, we'd be much better off.

If I was Stan Kasten, Babcock and Stotts would be gone as soon as this dreadful season ends. Knight would immediately be promoted to GM, and I'd begin an exaustive coaching search, making sure that no college coaches are considered (unless Bobby Knight or Coach K decide to go pro), and the #1 guy on my list would be Kenny Smith.

[Highpozt]

You took a quote from my post so I am assuming you are thinking I think Babcock is smart in regard to the NBA. I did not state that in my post however I will submit what I stated and that is player selection is not our major flaw but instead coach selection. The reason being that as you stated this team lacks those things that require fundamentals and hustle and I attribute that to the ability of the coach to motivate his ballers. I will agree that PB did not select Big Dog for his defense but if you check JT in his college days he was considered a very good defensive guard --- point being he has the skillz if the coach can make him dig deeper. Bottom line is there are a whole lot of teams particularly in the East with less talent but are playing better and I attribute a good majority of than blame on poor coaching. Coaching is not the final answer but we are not even a playoff team and I would be hyped if this team made it to the second round of the playoffs --- second round of the playoffs is not mediocre. Eight out of Thirty-one teams to make it that far puts a team past mediocre. Not that yoiu settle fo second round but at least there is some upward mobility. Lenny was the last decent coach we had (not very good but just decent) and several of those years we had the defenses in the top 5. A good coach with this same team would make a significant difference.