What's MW worth if traded for a pick in this draft

[TexasPete]

I agree with you. How can anyone write off a 20 year old who just put up 13.3? It blows my mind. Can't see Marvin ever improving a measly 5 ppg...at age 20?

I just don't get it. If Marvin was a 8ppg guy I could understand this a little bit. But a 13.3 guy after his 20 year old year? C'mon guys, expand your horizons just a little. If Marvin stays at 13.3 next year I'll be more concerned. That won't happen.

BTW, Diesel is not my "arch enemy"...he just doesn't understand basketball.

[TexasPete]

Walter, let's celebrate your mindless position on Marvin and place a bet. Marvin vs. Brandon Wright next year. How much cash you want to wager? Put a little conviction in your position. You good? Or, are you just babbling again?

Name the price. All I would say is that for any bet to be valid both players must play in 60 games. That's it. Name your price.

[AtLaS]

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How can anyone write off a 20 year old who just put up 13.3? It blows my mind.

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And it blows my mind that you still don't understand the concept of efficiency. Josh Childress outplayed Marvin by a MILE this year, but I'm sure you don't understand why.

[TexasPete]

Do you honestly expect Marvin to be less than Childress in 3 years? I think we both know the answer to that question.

My point is that Marvin is a 20 year old who went for 13.3/5. BTW, he didn't outplay him by a mile. Your greatly exaggerating to support your losing position.

Just don't be shocked if Marvin makes a quantum leap over the next 2 years. And he will still be a year younger than Chill this year.

Seriously, you want to get pissed? Look at Chill and SW. They are significantly closer to being fully developed than MW. The fact that a 20 year old may just show great improvement should not be foreign to you. It just another case of MW hysteria.

[Packfill]

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Marvin Williams came into the league with James Worthy upside.

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Where did that upside and athleticism go? we certaintly haven't seen it his first two years in the league.

[gsuteke]

unless you are a hopeless Marvin hater you'll have to admit the PG situation in Atlanta is atleast somewhat responsible for some of the struggles Marvin has experienced over the past two years.

Smoove's 3rd year in the league he really took the next step.

Has Marvin been a dissapointment? yes, but only in the respect that two players that are better today were drafted right after him. to suggest though that Marvin isn't worth a top 5 to 8 pick in swap is exhibiting extreme hate IMO.

[TexasPete]

Teke, you speak the truth. Without a true PG our offense is JJ, then JJ, and if JJ isn't open Smith. When you have a true PG that gets the ball to the right people, and runs an actual offense, it will help Marvin 10X. And not just Marvin, SW and Chill can get some love.

Our broken down offense needs a PG to drive it. Lue is a horrendous distributor. AJ isn't much and Speedy is hardly the type that runs an offense. Marvin has times when he is involved where he gets on big rolls. Then, the ball doesn't come around again for awhile. The same goes for Chill and SW. How we have gone this long without a true PG blows my mind.

Walter, I'm waiting for an answer on the Brandan Wright deal. How about this...the loser has to put "I'm a dumbass" on his sig here for 6 months. We can evaluate who the overall better player is for at least 60 games. You in?

[Lascar78]

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Teke, you speak the truth. Without a true PG our offense is JJ, then JJ, and if JJ isn't open Smith.

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You forgot about the part where JJ hands the ball off to the PG at the top of the key, goes down the lane, then pops back out to the wing behind a screen and gets the ball back just as his defender catches up with him. It takes a good 6-7 seconds and takes us from JJ at the top of the key with nowhere to go to JJ on the wing with nowhere to go. That's my favorite Woodson play.

[AtLaS]

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Seriously, you want to get pissed? Look at Chill and SW. They are significantly closer to being fully developed than MW. The fact that a 20 year old may just show great improvement should not be foreign to you. It just another case of MW hysteria.

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I am very disappointed in Childress and Shelden. But they weren't #2 picks, and the gap in talent between the players picked behind them isn't nearly as big as the gap between Marvin and Paul/Deron.

I do think Marvin will get better, but I don't see him being as good as you seem to think. He can't create his own shot to save his life, and he gets his shot blocked inside 25% of the time. Shelden and Childress are BOTH better at creating their own shot than Marvin. The fact that his predraft writeup weaknesses are the EXACT SAME as they are now is scary..

[Packfill]

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unless you are a hopeless Marvin hater you'll have to admit the PG situation in Atlanta is atleast somewhat responsible for some of the struggles Marvin has experienced over the past two years.

Smoove's 3rd year in the league he really took the next step.

Has Marvin been a dissapointment? yes, but only in the respect that two players that are better today were drafted right after him. to suggest though that Marvin isn't worth a top 5 to 8 pick in swap is exhibiting extreme hate IMO.

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You are right, it is the point guard's fault that Marvin (1) can't create his own shot; (2) lacks aggression; (3) shoots a low percentage from the outside; (4) has a poor handle and (5) was picked second in the draft.

If you really want to be honest you have to acknowledge (which you do) that Marvin has not lived up to expectations and that as a result the Hawks would not be able to trade him for an equivalent (i.e., number 2 pick) in the coming draft. You obviously wouldn't be able to trade him for either Oden or Durant. Chances are, because he underachieved for two years, that several NBA teams would rather risk the unknown and go with a draft pick with potential rather then trade their pick for Marvin. Then you need to consider whether teams that are drafting early want a swingman or not.

Personally, I do not think they could get a top 5 pick for Marvin.

[Dukegotgame]

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the level of intelligence in this thread is breathtaking.

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lmao you just nailed yourself with your first sentence. Why don't you take Webster's method and look up the word "efficiency" before you make a dumbfounded comment like that.

Allen Iverson scored over 20 ppg in the playoffs this year, he played great too right?

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so says the idiot who is bashing a 20 yr old kid in the nba....

i could have made a novel of reasons of why you sound so stupid but it was not worth the time considering a new one of these threads pop up everyday and people like you never learn.

[AtLaS]

Ahh.. the "My argument was destroyed with FACTS so I'll call you an idiot" response. Not surprising..

[Dukegotgame]

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Ahh.. the "My argument was destroyed with FACTS so I'll call you an idiot" response. Not surprising..

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yes the great agruement of a 20 yr old in the nba sucks, wont improve much, and has no talent. only a scholar could refute such a strong agruement.

[AtLaS]

Guess you didn't get my response to TexasPete.

I do think Marvin will get better, but I don't see him being as good as you seem to think.

Your ONLY argument is an ASSUMPTION that Marvin will improve tremendously because of his age, but you refuse to acknowledge his significantly less of potential than the hype created after his first year in college.

If I'm so wrong, why don't you try and tackle one of my points. I didn't think you would.

[Popeye]

It's hard to argue with the guys who make up their mind before argument.

Atlas for example likes Smoove and if you say anything negative about Smoove he will defend him.

On the other hand if you say anything positve about Marvin he will try to kill it.

(It's just an example Atlas, nothing personal)

There is very few posters who don't pick sides before argument.

[Dukegotgame]

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Guess you didn't get my response to TexasPete.

I do think Marvin will get better, but I don't see him being as good as you seem to think.

Your ONLY argument is an ASSUMPTION that Marvin will improve tremendously because of his age, but you refuse to acknowledge his significantly less of potential than the hype created after his first year in college.

If I'm so wrong, why don't you try and

tackle

one of my points. I didn't think you would.

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guess they didnt teach reading comprehension or sarcasm 101 at columbia high school lol...

anyway all my responses to you have been intentionally sarcastic in nature because its hard to take anyone seriously who has such negative comments about a 20 year old who was coming off an injury this year in the nba.

my dog could tackle your "points." its just not worth the time because you will never get it. like the poster previous to me said certain people on this site have already made up their mind so its useless. you love josh smith and hate marvin.

[atlien110]

marvin isn't as good or bad as some of you think.

marvin was recruited out of high school as a shooting guard. he goes to college where he's basically taller than most of the competition and so he plays a little inside. but, he is still basically an oversized shooter.

marvin's strength is his shooting, his size and his "athletiscm". his weaknesses are his defense, his overall strength and his desire.

i don't know about some of you but it seemed to me like marvin got he majority of his points in the 1st quarter and if you've been watching ball for a while you know that nba teams don't play any defense in the 1st quarter. he seems to get most of his points by shooing wide open 16 ft jump shots from near the top of the key, either through transition or coming off a screen. if the jumper is going down he adds a ball fake and takes it to the hoop.

bottom line, i think marv would've went around 5 or 6 in this years draft. i think marvin compares to a rashard lewis. he'll get most of his points from the outside and if he adds some strengths he might be good for 7-8 boards a game. however, his defense is really weak and his back to basket offense is limited (anyone else think that hook is damn near the ugliest thing they've ever seen?).

whatever, i'm still a fan of his because he's a hawk. i hope he gets better and in the meantime can he stop waddling!

[thesheedera]

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marvin isn't as good or bad as some of you think.

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true

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marvin was recruited out of high school as a shooting guard.

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absurdly false

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so he plays a little inside.

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false again, he played the 4 exclusively at UNC

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his weaknesses are...and his desire.

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completely disagree, but a somewhat common perception of him

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if you've been watching ball for a while

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which you clearly haven't been doing, at least with UNC basketball

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i think marv would've went around 5 or 6 in this years draft

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my guess would be in the 3-6 range

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defense is really weak

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disagree again, he makes mistakes, but he's an above average to good perimeter defender and an average post defender

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anyone else think that hook is damn near the ugliest thing they've ever seen?

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really???

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in the meantime can he stop waddling

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never gonna happen