Let's keep this simple.

[troubleman]

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Dirk is 7'0", does that help his defense?

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Nope, but it doesn't hurt either. Also doesn't hurt that he has Diop and Dampier next to him either.

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Ben Wallace: 6'7 Zaza: 6'11

Sheed: 6'11 Smith: 6'9

We still have the advantage over Detroit's championship team, since the only thing that matters to you is SIZE in the frontcourt.

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It's not the only thing that matters to me, but it has been proven that it works more times than not.

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PJ Brown only plays 20 minutes per game. Chicago also plays Tyrus (who is 6'8) and Ben together. Atl's frontcourt is bigger than both of them, and WAY bigger than GS or PHX's, except when GS puts in Biedrins. Kurt Thomas is only 6'9.

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Thanks, for proving me wrong. I retract my statement. GS, Phoenix, Chicago, and Detroit are able to get away with playing an undersized 4 and 5.

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I still agree that we need an upgrade, but it needs to come at the center position, unless you want to bench Marvin and move Smith to the SF.

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It needs to come at either center or power forward. I don't care how it's done, it just needs to be done. I'm not convinced that Marvin or Smooth will be the answers at their positions.

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It's good to know that you're on the BK bandwagon of drafting a forward at all costs.

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I've already spoken my piece on how I feel about Billy Knight's drafting. I'm not on anyone's bandwagon. I know for a fact that this team is flawed, and not just at the 1 and the 5.

[troubleman]

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I didn't think you would have a comeback for that since you were making absolutely no sense.

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Yeah, you got me. Josh Smith is not a terrible post defender at this point in his career, and Yi will never be a better 4 than Josh Smith. You are 100% correct, bro.

[exodus]

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Yeah, you got me. Josh Smith is not a terrible post defender at this point in his career

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Correct. Smith led the league in blocks and also altered countless shots. He also held opponents at the 4 to a PER of 14.8 while playing next to Zaza which is an accomplisment in itself.

Would i call him a great post defender? No. I would say he is better than average. Calling him terrible is ignorant.

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Yi will never be a better 4 than Josh Smith

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Nobody knows for sure if Yi will be a better 4 than Smith. We do know that Smith is already very productive at the 4 and is only 21.

The only justification for picking Yi is if he is a safe bet to be significantly better than Smith at the 4 (just like Durant is obviously better than Marvin at the 3). If he can't defend the post better than Smith that is one more reason not to pick him.

[troubleman]

Thanks stat guy. I'm sure Josh Smith's Opponent PER would be pretty good, especially when he is one of the better defenders on a pretty bad defensive team. It still doesn't take away from the fact that he is a terrible post defender, who makes up for it with weakside shot blocking ability.

[AtLaS]

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Thanks stat guy. I'm sure Josh Smith's Opponent PER would be pretty good, especially when he is one of the better defenders on a pretty bad defensive team. It still doesn't take away from the fact that he is a terrible post defender, who makes up for it with weakside shot blocking ability.

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He's one of the better defenders on a bad defensive team, so wouldn't that mean that his position isn't in the most pressing need of an upgrade?

Calling him a "terrible" post defender is flat out dumb. I would guess you saw about 5 Hawks games last year.

[troubleman]

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Nobody knows for sure if Yi will be a better 4 than Smith. We do know that Smith is already very productive at the 4 and is only 21.

The only justification for picking Yi is if he is a safe bet to be significantly better than Smith at the 4 (just like Durant is obviously better than Marvin at the 3). If he can't defend the post better than Smith that is one more reason not to pick him.

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I believe in drafting the player with the biggest upside, but I also understand that there is no such thing as a sure thing when it comes to the draft. I can't remember the last time I was wrong about a Hawk's draft pick, but I'm sure it's happened. My mind can change, but as of today 05/25/07, I want Yi.

[exodus]

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It still doesn't take away from the fact that he is a terrible post defender

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Again that is ignorant. Who do you think held Dwight Howard in check when he played the Hawks? Zaza?

Smith can throw off a players shot just by faking like he will go for the block.

Your insistence that he is a terrible post defender means that either

-you don't watch the games.

-you don't know basketball.

-you argument is so weak that you are looking for something to cling to so you won't look so clueless.

Smith will never be the man defender that the Wallaces are and he can certainly do a better job of denying initial post position. but he is far from a terrible post defender.

You have nothing to back up that nonsense.

[troubleman]

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He's one of the better defenders on a bad defensive team, so wouldn't that mean that his position isn't in the most pressing need of an upgrade?

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No, it wouldn't, but I've also stated several times that either the 4 or the 5 need to be upgraded. It doesn't matter which one, but one needs to be upgraded. Jeez!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Calling him a "terrible" post defender is flat out dumb. I would guess you saw about 5 Hawks games last year.

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Ignoring that bullsh*t.

[troubleman]

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Again that is ignorant. Who do you think held Dwight Howard in check when he played the Hawks? Zaza?

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No, Jameer Nelson and Carlos Arroyo did a good job of holding him in check.

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Your insistence that he is a terrible post defender means that either

-you don't watch the games.

-you don't know basketball.

-you argument is so weak that you are looking for something to cling to so you won't look so clueless.

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It's all of the above.

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Smith will never be the man defender that the Wallaces are and he can certainly do a better job of denying initial post position. but he is far from a terrible post defender.

You have nothing to back up that nonsense.

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Nothing like stats?

[exodus]

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Nothing like stats?

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Not much point in quoting stats to you since you wouldn't understand them anyway, as you proved with this comment;

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I'm sure Josh Smith's Opponent PER would be pretty good, especially when he is one of the better defenders on a pretty bad defensive team.

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I will attempt to explain opponents per to you but i really don't expect you to understand it.

Lets say player A is an average defender. An average PER is 15 so if player A is playing on an average defensive team that would mean his opponents PER would be around 15.

Now lets put him on the Spurs. Now that the team around Player A is better than makes it tougher for the guy he is guarding to score. Therefore his opponents PER would be well below 15.

Conversely if Player A is on a bad defensive team (like the Hawks) that makes it easier for the guy he is guarding to score. Therefore his opponents PER would be well above 15.

The weak defense surrounding Smith on the Hawks makes his opponents PER higher than it would be on a good defensive team.

To make a long story short you have it completely backwards.

[exodus]

Why are you harping on Smiths defense while at the same time saying we should draft a guy who can't guard players in the Chinese league?

[troubleman]

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I will attempt to explain opponents per to you but i really don't expect you to understand it.

Lets say player A is an average defender. An average PER is 15 so if player A is playing on an average defensive team that would mean his opponents PER would be around 15.

Now lets put him on the Spurs. Now that the team around Player A is better than makes it tougher for the guy he is guarding to score. Therefore his opponents PER would be well below 15.

Conversely if Player A is on a bad defensive team (like the Hawks) that makes it easier for the guy he is guarding to score. Therefore his opponents PER would be well above 15.

The weak defense surrounding Smith on the Hawks makes his opponents PER higher than it would be on a good defensive team.

To make a long story short you have it completely backwards.

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Ok, I get it. Duncan's opponent PER is 17 at pf position, and the Spurs are a better defensive team than the Hawks, so Josh Smith is a better defensive 4 than Tim Duncan. Thanks Bro. I'm not a stat guy, but I believe I will get it with your help.

[troubleman]

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Why are you harping on Smiths defense while at the same time saying we should draft a guy who can't guard players in the Chinese league?

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Smith is a terrible low post defender, but it's not about him. I want to replace Marvin Williams, not Josh Smith. Josh Smith simply brings more to the table at this point than Marvin. Again, that doesn't mean that Marvin might not be the better player in a year or two, but right now Smith is better. Yi struggles defensively in the Chinese League because he is weak. As I stated earlier, he needs to get stronger, which I believe will make him a better defender. Not a great defender, but a better defender.

[TexasPete]

I'm LMFAO at all the Yi supporters. These guys don't know a damn thing except Chad Ford wrote him up the same way he touted Skita. Now they want to draft ANOTHER forward based on what some retard said who has never picked up a ball himself.

I wouldn't want to be touting a player I've never seen play except a two minute clip on youtube. This whole discussion about people wanting another forward is just stupidity at its finest. Between advocating a 210 lb PF and a Chinese kid nobody has seen play I think I've seen it all.

This board's collective intellect is dropping like a rock. Or, I should say a few are dragging it down hard.

[exodus]

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Yi struggles defensively in the Chinese League because he is weak. As I stated earlier, he needs to get stronger, which I believe will make him a better defender.

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And yet you automatically assume he will get stronger and better, but Marvin won't. marvin is 2 years younger than Yi and doesn't struggle defensively at the 3 in the NBA.

Yi could very easily be a bust. If he was as productive as Durant i would have no problem bringing him in to replace Marvin. But that isn't the case.

If your argument was against Marvin why have you been railing against smith?

We know that Smith had his best production at the 4 spot. We also know that Smith isn't quick enough to guard the 3 spot. He gets beat off the dribble too easily. Plus he led the league in blocks so it only makes sense to have him near the basket.

The Hawks problems are at center and the point . They don't have anyone on the roster who can guard the 5 or play the point effectively on offense.

Yi addresses neither problem and even if he does turn out better than Marvin it is highly unlikely that the gap will be big enough to justify taking him at 3.

[TexasPete]

Josh cannot defend the 3 worth a crap. Because he shoots too many 3's people assume he is more cut out for SF. WRONG!!! He is weak guarding SF's away from the basket.

This Yi crap makes me sick. It would be one thing if people had seen him play ONE GAME. A few highlights and we have to draft our 12th forward. EVERYBODY said PG on here all year and now all I hear is another forward. BK is not the only one with his head up his ass.

[exodus]

LOL so tell us how you really feel.

[troubleman]

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And yet you automatically assume he will get stronger and better, but Marvin won't. marvin is 2 years younger than Yi and doesn't struggle defensively at the 3 in the NBA.

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Wow, Marvin's Opponent PER is 17.2 at the 3 position, but he doesn't struggle. Maybe I'm not understanding it, so can you break it down for me again?

This is also a part of what I said about Marvin:

Again, that doesn't mean that Marvin might not be the better player in a year or two, but right now Smith is better.

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Yi could very easily be a bust. If he was as productive as Durant i would have no problem bringing him in to replace Marvin. But that isn't the case.

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You are right, Yi could easily be a bust. Like so many other highly touted College, High School, and foreign kids. Wouldn't shock me at all, but as of 05/26/07, I'm willing to take that risk. Doesn't mean my mind won't change before the draft.

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If your argument was against Marvin why have you been railing against smith?

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My argument has been against Smith at the 4, not against Smith the basketball player. Again, Smith brings more to the table than Marvin at this point.

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We know that Smith had his best production at the 4 spot. We also know that Smith isn't quick enough to guard the 3 spot. He gets beat off the dribble too easily. Plus he led the league in blocks so it only makes sense to have him near the basket.

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How many players in the NBA at the 3 don't get beat off the dribble easily? The NBA has screwed with the rules so much, that a team like the Hawks, with only one legit shotblocker in the starting lineup, is doomed defensively.

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The Hawks problems are at center and the point . They don't have anyone on the roster who can guard the 5 or play the point effectively on offense.

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As I have stated several times, it's Zaza or Smith. They cannot play the majority of the minutes at the 4 and the 5 together. The Hawks are going to be a bad defensive team because of it.

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Yi addresses neither problem and even if he does turn out better than Marvin it is highly unlikely that the gap will be big enough to justify taking him at 3.

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I feel it is better for the Hawks as a team in the long run. Hey, I'm willing to admit that I may be wrong, but I've been right about the Hawks moves more than not.

[troubleman]

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Josh cannot defend the 3 worth a crap. Because he shoots too many 3's people assume he is more cut out for SF. WRONG!!! He is weak guarding SF's away from the basket.

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Well, I don't assume he is a 3 because he shoots 3's. Da hell kinda logic is that. According to the stat man (exodus), Marvin is pretty weak at guarding 3's. So what is he?

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This Yi crap makes me sick. It would be one thing if people had seen him play ONE GAME. A few highlights and we have to draft our 12th forward. EVERYBODY said PG on here all year and now all I hear is another forward. BK is not the only one with his head up his ass.

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The Hawks have two lottery picks, so not taking Conley is not the end of the world. The Hawks are still a bad team, which means taking the BPA. If that is Conley, then fine. If that is Yi, I'm fine with that too.

[TexasPete]

My point is you don't know Yi. How can any self respecting poster crow about wanting a guy you have never seen play in a game? I LMAO at the people who are all over Yi as the next great Dirk or International savior.

You don't know Yi and yet you defend his selection to the depths. There is something a little crazy about that position.

Now, if he blows people away in workouts and becomes a huge buzz because he outplays other top players in workouts then that could change things. I am still for Conley either way but, based on evidence, supporting Yi is a defensible position. Right now, every poster who is advocating drafting Yi is doing so based on blind faith. You have watched him dunk on pitiful competition on Youtube.

This whole Yi stuff is pure nonsense. We have all wanted a young franchise PG to take the helm of this team and now that we have a chance to take a great athlete with brains and a real PG mentality...some want to grab another forward. And, as if that isn't crazy enough, they want to take a player they have never actually ever seen play, based on Chad Ford and Youtube.

That is the epitome of irrational fan behavior...with a twist of stupidity. If you railed against BK for taking a forward last year without even working out SW, then how can you be an advocate of taking a player nobody on this board has ever even seen play a game?