Where does Yi play?

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Not like he's a physically limited prospect like Shelden or Aaron Gray.

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I don't disagree with this except at the center position where he is physically limited and we don't have the big, tall, long Pf to compensate for his limitations at center.

W

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Where is he limited at the Center position?

Certainly not weight when you consider he's 245 pounds which is just as big as Dwight Howard coming into the league as well as Amare.

Certainly not height either with Jefferson, Amare, and Howard all the same height.

6'10 246 is plenty big enough to play the 5 in this league these days and with his broad shoulders he could get even bigger and stronger.

Like I said there are no physical limitations

[Guest Walter]

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Like I said there are no physical limitations

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Whatever. He's limited. You know it. And his 13/9 stat line doesn't make me confident his talent will allow him to overcome his limitations at the center position.

Horford is by definition the prototype Power forward. You can't be a prototype at one position (good thing) and not physically limited at the ascending adjacent position. It's not bad to be a prototype. In fact, we could use a few, especially at Pg and center. It is bad if you are bound and determined to take a prototype at one position and stretch, force fit him into another. Expect a significant talent decline and ceiling lowering. We can't afford that.

W

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Whatever. He's limited. You know it. And his 13/9 stat line doesn't make me confident his talent will allow him to overcome his limitations at the center position.

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What area is he limited?

If it's so obvious he's limited point to the area in his game that he has physical limitations that will stop him from being great.

There are none.

How about you look at his FG% where among guys on major eams who took 260+ shots, only Wright finished with a better FG%.

That FG% is a helluva lot more telling statistic than point total when any average Joe can chuck 400 shots and pad their stats.

[Guest Walter]

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Where is he limited at the Center position?

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Horford is either physically average or less than average across the board at the CENTER position. Do not mistake his reasonably good length, weight, height at the Pf position as anything more than AVERAGE or less than AVERAGE at the center position. His bench press not withstanding (and we saw how much good that did SW) he is limited at the center position.

SW's standing reach was poor for a Pf at 8'8". Horford's is 8'11". Good for a POWER FOWARD but average or slightly less than average for a center. Oden's? 9'4". Good for a center.

SW's wingspan of 7'4.5" was excellent for a Pf. Horford's 7'0.5" is average for a Pf and below average for a center. Oden's wingspan was 7'4.5". Oden's = good for a center.

I don't know SW lane agility test and sprint but Horford's lane agility was the 2nd slowest at the predraft camp! THAT IS TERRIBLE FOR A CENTER OR PF. His sprint was slightly above average when you consider that he falls exactly between Oden 3.27 and Noah 3.47.

Clearly Al Horford's height is less than the average NBA center. 6'8.75" without shoes. Quit rounding up! Even with shoes he wasn't 6'10". Hawes and Noah 6'10.5", Oden 6'11".

Horford's 35.5" max vertical? Again average. Noah's 37.5". Brandan Wright's 35.5...average.

I mean, we are talking about the 3rd pick on the NBA draft. It's hard for a player to put all these things together and Horford is not physically horrible at anything other than the lane agility test AS A POWER FORWARD, in fact, as a Pf he measures out pretty good, but as a center he is average or less than average. That's the simple truth. You don't draft a guy 3rd overall who measures out this way at the center position when he averaged 13/9 as a Junior. You don't! Not when there is more talent available.

W

[atlien110]

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and the crap you wrote about shelden being a better defender is for a lack of a better word preposterous.

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[/indent]

SW was a far better college defender and rebounder. Nothing preposterous about significantly better production.

W [/quote

shelden was the only big guy worth a lick on his team. when there's nobody else to rebound it's much easier to put up guadier numbers.

[exodus]

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Certainly not height either with Jefferson, Amare, and Howard all the same height.

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Since you have obviously forgotten already i will tell you again that

-Howard has a 4.5" reach advantage on Horford.

-Jefferson has a 3" reach advantage on Horford as well as a 20 pound advantage.

-Amare has a 1.5" reach advantage in addition to being stronger, faster and jumping higher.

[AtLaS]

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Certainly not height either with Jefferson, Amare, and Howard all the same height.

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Since you have obviously forgotten already i will tell you again that

-Howard has a 4.5" reach advantage on Horford.

-Jefferson has a 3" reach advantage on Horford as well as a 20 pound advantage.

-Amare has a 1.5" reach advantage in addition to being stronger, faster and jumping higher.

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You still haven't answered my question, what does standing reach do DEFENSIVELY other than help with blocking shots?

Furthermore, what centers in the league are going to abuse Horford?

[Guest Walter]

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Furthermore, what centers in the league are going to abuse Horford?

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Great. We use a 3rd pick on an in generable non-abusable player. Wonderful.

Unfortunately, we need our center to also be a good help defender. Horford is NOT the type power forward that can defend the CENTER position and help out everyone else.

He's a 6'8.75", 13/9er. All this doesn't translate well to the NBA center position or a top 3 pick!

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Where is he limited at the Center position?

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Horford is either physically average or less than average across the board at the CENTER position. Do not mistake his reasonably good length, weight, height at the Pf position as anything more than AVERAGE or less than AVERAGE at the center position. His bench press not withstanding (and we saw how much good that did SW) he is limited at the center position.

SW's standing reach was poor for a Pf at 8'8". Horford's is 8'11". Good for a POWER FOWARD but average or slightly less than average for a center. Oden's? 9'4". Good for a center.

SW's wingspan of 7'4.5" was excellent for a Pf. Horford's 7'0.5" is average for a Pf and below average for a center. Oden's wingspan was 7'4.5". Oden's = good for a center.

I don't know SW lane agility test and sprint but Horford's lane agility was the 2nd slowest at the predraft camp! THAT IS TERRIBLE FOR A CENTER OR PF. His sprint was slightly above average when you consider that he falls exactly between Oden 3.27 and Noah 3.47.

Clearly Al Horford's height is less than the average NBA center. 6'8.75" without shoes. Quit rounding up! Even with shoes he wasn't 6'10". Hawes and Noah 6'10.5", Oden 6'11".

Horford's 35.5" max vertical? Again average. Noah's 37.5". Brandan Wright's 35.5...average.

I mean, we are talking about the 3rd pick on the NBA draft. It's hard for a player to put all these things together and Horford is not physically horrible at anything other than the lane agility test AS A POWER FORWARD, in fact, as a Pf he measures out pretty good, but as a center he is average or less than average. That's the simple truth. You don't draft a guy 3rd overall who measures out this way at the center position when he averaged 13/9 as a Junior. You don't! Not when there is more talent available.

W

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Al Horford does have average height and standing reach I will give you that.

But 35.5 inch vert average?

That's the same vert as guys named Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudemire that's hardly average.

He also doesn't have average strength. He's a rock solid 246 pounds in muscle and with his broad shoulders, there are no physical limitations from preventing him from getting elite strength.

His ability to dribble and run the floor for a big man is hardly average as well.

I don't put too much stock into lane agility when Sean May looks more agile than Chris Paul

So yes technically Horford does have physical limitations in the height and reach department. But like I said, with enough athleticism and skill, you can succeed at 6'10 at C in this league.

Amare Stoudemire is a guy without the great reach or height who still suceeds.

Horford is closer to him than he is Shelden Williams.

Horford dribbles and runs the floor exceptionally well just like Stoudemire and he gets just about the same amount of extension in the air.

[Guest Walter]

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Al Horford does have average height and standing reach I will give you that.

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Al Horford has BELOW average height and reach for the center position! Look at the Center prospects this year. These are mere prospects, not established players.

W

[AtLaS]

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Great. We use a 3rd pick on an in generable non-abusable player. Wonderful.

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I didn't think anyone could answer my first question.

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Unfortunately, we need our center to also be a good help defender..

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So if Zaza was a good weakside shotblocker, you would consider him a good defender? Do you consider Nene to be a good defender?

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He's a 6'8.75", 13/9er. All this doesn't translate well to the NBA center position or a top 3 pick!

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Wrong, he's 6'10 in shoes which is what every other player in the league is listed at.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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Al Horford has BELOW average height and reach for the center position! Look at the Center prospects this year. These are mere prospects, not established players.

W

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Well let's take a look at the ESTABLISHED PLAYERS

Let's take a look at the top 10 guys listed under the C category in PPG

Yao Ming- 7'5

Chris Bosh- 6'10

Carlos Boozer- 6'9

Pau Gasol- 7'0

Elton Brand- 6'8

Amare Stoudemire- 6'10

Tim Duncan- 6'11

Eddy Curry- 6'11

Jermaine O'Neal- 6'11

Dwight Howard- 6'10

Wow what do you freaking know!

Only 2 guys at 7 feet. The rest 6'11, 6'10 and below!

Yep 6'10 sure is way below average isn't it?

Not

Oh and if you just do Eastern conference, it eliminates the 7 footers.

[exodus]

I see your stupidity remains consitent. Only now your stupidity is evident only in the title to your threads. At least now i am spared the stupidity of your posts.

If standing reach doesn't matter then i guess you must think players get rebounds with their head, not their hands. That logic would be consistent with most of your opinions.

[AtLaS]

Didn't think you would answer the question, all you can do is throw around insults like a rag doll. It's also funny how you support Yi even though he would also be Smith's backup.. I guess standing reach affects Shelden's ability to rebound as well..

[Guest Walter]

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Didn't think you would answer the question, all you can do is throw around insults like a rag doll. It's also funny how you support Yi even though he would also be Smith's backup.. I guess standing reach affects Shelden's ability to rebound as well..

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All the physical tools as they relate TO THE CENTER POSITION, Horford's meager stats. They all matter. They all impact his value.

Interestingly, NOBODY talks about drafting Horford to play the Pf position for us. It must be that the same people that want Horford realize that Yi has more talent and if we are considering either player's predominant position of Pf, Yi owns Horford.

W

[Peoriabird]

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Interestingly, NOBODY talks about drafting Horford to play the Pf position for us. It must be that the same people that want Horford realize that Yi has more talent and if we are considering either player's predominant position of Pf, Yi owns Horford.

W

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And Smith!

[AtLaS]

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It must be that the same people that want Horford realize that Yi has more talent and if we are considering either player's predominant position of Pf, Yi owns Horford.

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When have I ever said Yi has more talent than Horford? If you mean Yi has a more perimeter oriented game than yes, but I don't want my big man to be a perimeter player unless he is Dirk, which is very far-fetched. Horford has Yi beat in every possible aspect of an interior game.

[Guest Walter]

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Horford has Yi beat in every possible aspect of an interior game.

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Yi is taller, longer, more athletic, quicker and while Yi isn't relegated to the interior all these attributes and his post skills like that unstoppable, clutch bump off, interior turnaround are more refined and in time will be infinitely more effective than anything Horford has. Yi can very soon do it all. Horford will never be able to more than Horace Grant (which is good, but not good enough) and at center will be average.

W

[Guest Walter]

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Wrong, he's 6'10 in shoes which is what every other player in the league is listed at.

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He's 6'9.75" in shoes and more importantly doesn't have the talent to make up for being below average or average in relation to center measurements.

W

[AtLaS]

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Yi is longer

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Probably, but there is still no proof.

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more athletic

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Yi MAY be faster in a sprint, that is it. No way Yi has a >35.5 vert, or 20 reps of 185. He could possibly be faster in the agility test.

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Yi isn't relegated to the interior all these attributes and his post skills like that unstoppable, clutch bump off, interior turnaround are more refined and in time will be infinitely more effective than anything Horford has.

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Wow, just wow. All of your arguments about Yi's interior presence is nothing but ASSUMPTIONS, which prove nothing and don't help your argument. Dirk and Okur have been in the league for YEARS and still have no interior game, and still suck on defense. Pau Gasol is really the only good example of a good interior foreign prospect, and he was already an interior player BEFORE he was drafted. Post moves aren't easy to learn, especially when you've never played that way and you're up against NBA bigman.

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Yi can very soon do it all.

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He could also very soon fail, and be another soft foreign prospect who can't play D and is scared to go inside.

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Horford will never be able to more than Horace Grant (which is good, but not good enough)

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How can you say something like that? You have NO IDEA what Horford could become, yet you say he'll NEVER be better than Horace as if it's written in stone? Again, assumptions don't help your argument.