JT is a great PG

[Keyzer_Soze]

So many people don't see JT as a PG. I don't get to see Hawks play very often, but according to statistics JT isn't bad at all. I took all starting PGs in the league and here is what I got:

Assists per game - JT is 7th

PPG - 8th

Steals - 10th

RPG - 11th

FG% - 18th

3pt% - 10th

FT% - 4th

Moreover, I used a system where every PG gets 1 point for each point scored per game, 2 for assist, 1.5 for rebound, 2.5 for steal, 2.5 per block. Then I deducted 0.5 points for each field goal missed per game, 1 point per missed FT, and 2 points for Turnover.

Well, guess what? Based on this system JT ranks 5th among PGs in the league. Here are top 15 PGs:

Jason Kidd - 37.8 points per game

Gary Payton - 37.7

Stephon Marbury -š34.7

Steve Francis -š33.7

Jason Terry -š29.51

Steve Nash -š29.47

Gilbert Arenas -š29.46

Eric Snow -š28.3

John Stockton -š27.0

Andre Miller -š26.5

Jason Williams -š26.4

Mike Bibby -š25.2

Jamaal Tinsley -š23.5

Tony Parker -23.4š

Larry Hughes -š23.2

So, as we see, according to statistics JT is easily one of the top 7 PGs in NBA. I know that we can't absolutely rely on statistics, but at least it gives some performance measurment. Therefore, let's stop running around looking for a PG when we have one. A great one I might add.

[Diesel]

Your system...

2.5 for Steals and Blocks and only 1.5 for assists in a system evaluating PGs.

[Guest]

it's an interesting system. I'm not saying it's not flawed, but I like the punishment for to's...the steal point might be just a tad high, but the blocks are fine with me as very few pg's ever get a block...

[Keyzer_Soze]

It's 2 points per assist. Plus, don't you think that steals are important for PG as well? BTW, you can give 1 point for each block, the average blocks per game numbers are so small for PGs, that it will not change the picture. Plus I don't see your point about blocks anyway. When you're comparing PFs you never look at Assists, or when you looking at Centers you don't care about steals? PG is not there to pass the ball only. He should score, rebound, steal, and block as well. So, you missed the point. All I was trying to do is to measure overall performance of JT at PG position.

[Guest]

I think the critcism on steals has to do with the way in which some of them are gained. People accuse, and rightly so, JT and GRob of playing the passing lanes (for slightly different reasons imo) and not playing enough man D, straight up...

GRob - can't move laterally or quickly in general, so plays off his man some, allowing the open J, in order to "seal off" the driving lane.

JT - plays the lane for reasons unknown, perhaps simply in order to get more steals. With his quickness of feet (are his hands as quick?) he should be able to get nearly as many steals playing his man closer

that's wehre the skepticism comes from, not their (steals) "worth".

One factor that would be fantastic to include, but very difficult/ time consuming to tabulate would be the opposing pg's fg% and pts per against each of those higher rated guards...

[dickaufan12]

It seems like GRob plays off his man more and more throughout the game. Maybe he thinks he can get the same results by blocking the drive lane when he gets tired, by forcing a shot instead of an easy layup. And I'm not complaining too much about JT's defense, it usually gets the job done.

[Guest]

GRob simply knows that he can't react quickly enough, esp. laterally (he's still got some extra lbs on him imo) so he plays off and makes his man settle for the jumper quite a bit. That's his defensive style/gameplan. When faced with a good jumpshooter, or someone who can really mix it up/is on on a given night, he REALLY struggles...

[Guest]

It ws ugly when Robinson was trying to defend

Desmond Mason.

[Diesel]

Well, for a slower SF, that's how to play it.

Play off, play the passing lane and hope that your man settles for the outside lower percentage shot. It doesn't work on guys who can hit from outside like Wesley Persons.... However for a guy like Shawn Marion, whoose game dictates that he gets inside, it works a lot better. Grob is no KG, but again, we knew that coming in... this is NO SURPRISE.

[Diesel]

MY point is that you know every assist results in 2 points. However, every block and every steal does not. It only provides another possession. I like the fact that you punish for Turnovers.

My opinion is that the system would be a little closer if...

Points = 1 point.

Assists = 2 points

Turnovers = -1.5

Steals = 1.5

Blocks = 1.0 (really a block doesn't neccessarily change possession)

Rebound = 1.0

And the FG% be used to help determine the probability of scoring on that possession.

So something like:

DP = Points+ FG% (St +Blocks+ Rebs -Turnovers) + Assists

In this simple system, I have developed a way to determine what happens during a possession. The PG is rewarded for Assists. The PG is rewarded for Scoring. The PG is also rewarded for what they do with the possession.

[chillzatl]

mainly because I can watch the games and SEE WITH MY OWN EYES, that JT struggles as a point guard. Sure he can get the ball to the other players. The problem is that he can't consistantly get it to other players who can actually do something with it AND get it to them at the right time.

It's funny how some people look at one great game by JT or build these formulas that say he's a great point guard. But if you actually watch the games you can see that he IS NOT a great point guard.

Every player in the top 10 on your list is a better PG than JT, with the exception of Steve Francis, and even he is more consistant than JT. All those other guys are vastly superior PG's over JT. Watch the games, don't use some skewed formula to try and tell yourself what everyone else knows. JT is not a good point guard and having a few great PG games per month doesn't change that.

[pathway23]

Francis is only more consistent than JT at scoring. His assists are up and down, and he leads the NBA in turnovers, and he has more help than JT does in his backcourt with Cuttino.

He is horrible at feeding Yao in the post. Cuttino Mobley does a beter job than he does at feeding Yao.

JT is more than decent at the point, get him another ball handler in the backcourt and he will take off.

[Guest]

It seems like JT's entrance passes to Shareef

are improving, but the problem really is that

he still hands the ball to Robinson so much.

Maybe he is being instructed to do it?I saw

Jackson do the same thing sometimes.

[chillzatl]

and that's all I'll give him. He's not even good, just decent.

See, that's the problem with this over-hyping of his PG abilities because of a few good games. It's not that JT can't get assists. It's that he DOES NOT consistantly run the offense He is also too easily taken out of any sort of comfort zone he might have had.

That's why he is only decent as a PG. Any lummox with a few talented players around him can get assists. But being able to run an offense AND run it when teams change their strategy on you is what separates a decent PG from a really good one.

[Guest]

ok, so here's your options - what do you do:

a) resign JT to be our pg at about seven years 42 million

b) try and find a FA pg to come in and start

c) make a trade (who???) for a pg.

d) let DD have full control of the reigns...

Just curious, with all this bad talk, who people think would come to atlanta as a FA or who we might trade for and who to trade to get them....

IMO, our options are pretty limited, and I'd take option 1.