Where's our mismatch advantage & potential super*?

[Guest Walter]

In a league of mismatch advantages we now are at a mismatch disadvantage at center and in a league of superstars we have none and none coming via this, our last real draft for some time. Guys, we are in SERIOUS trouble.

First, I do not think this team will make the playoffs, but if it does it still will not contend remotely as designed. That is an absolute farce considering what capitol we've had the last two offseasons.

Secondly, should we not make the playoffs and there results a likely and warranted accross the board firing and at least selective firesale, only JS is a sexy pick with trade value. Horford's trade value plummeted right off the lot, particularly if we play him at center. Law? Not much trade value there. MW? Not much value for his pick position. JC? Injury history and limited ceiling makes him same but worse. SW? What trade value? We have the least sexy trade capitol one could ever hope for out of 2, 3, 5, 6, and 11 picks. On top of that, we mortaged our pick next year. This rebuild is really now IN it's 5th year, counting the capitol spent next year. We can't even afford to keep this bunch of unsexy prospects together after this year!

We are in trouble!

This team will be too undersized yet again. Horford and SW will always have to play up to stay up. It's hard enough to play 82 games in this league. To play 82 when you are ALWAYS as a physical disadvantage is just plain crazy. Note: When spending a 3 and 5 pick on your center position, one should not find itself undersized there.

This team will not be talented enough yet again. This team will still find scoring hard, not having a true Pg to make it any easier on everybody and not having misatch advantages or the necessary talent, various skill sets, and aggressiveness to get the hard scores when we need them most.

This team will not even play good enough defense. It will still be at a mismatch DISadvantage despite all the capitol invested THROUGHOUT the post and at Pg (unless we want more of Speedy and his limitations elsewhere).

I'm absolutely sick of ringing this bell every year, getting called out for pessimism, being proven right year after year with no acknowledgement much less apology, but I'm sticking my neck out again. WE REMAIN A LESSER TALENTED, FRANKENSTEIN TEAM! I expect the usual personal attacks. What I don't expect is that a team full of players DRAFTED TO BE THE LONG SHOT EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE to become a playoff team this year or contenders ever. I don't want to say this but it is true. Almost all our picks were drafted to be exceptions to the rule (SW at C, Horford at C, JC at Sg), reaches (SW certainly), or outright lame misrepresentations of "BPA" in the face of sure fire franchise Pgs. We don't have mismatch advantages. We don't have superstars. We don't.

All we've got are longshots! All longshots with the 2, 3, 5, 6, 11 picks. How do you end up with 5 longshots at these pick positions?!? I'm not talking longshots to being superstars. I'm talking longshots to being majority time starters at the position (SW or Horford = center, JC = Sg) or role (MW = superstar) we drafted them for. They're all longshots to reach merely nothing special as we have them plotted out!

I expect to be flamed for this but despite the personal attacks my record has been ON POINT about whom we should draft and why and who we should NOT draft and why. This realism goes over fanatics like a lead balloon, but until we quit betting on exceptions to the rule, all we'll be is a team full of unrealized long shots who blame karma, coaching, Belkin, or Stern for our number not being called.

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Note: We had a chance, not a great one, but a chance this offseason to increase our odds. Yi, while not a sure thing, was an uber talented, tall, long, skilled, atheletic, superstar potential risk worth taking that would hold its value thoughout just about anything.

W

[ncthompson11]

"This team will be too undersized yet again. Horford and SW will always have to play up to stay up. "

I wouldnt say hortford is an undersized C, everyone just says it because he is listed as a PF. Howard is only 6'10 and boozer is 6'9 and they hold down the middle for there teams. Rebounding is not about height, it is about getting good position and boxing out. shelden and horford have the fundamentals to be great rebounder's and are strong enough to play heads up defense.

[Guest Walter]

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"This team will be too undersized yet again. Horford and SW will always have to play up to stay up. "

I wouldnt say hortford is an undersized C, everyone just says it because he is listed as a PF. Howard is only 6'10 and boozer is 6'9 and they hold down the middle for there teams. Rebounding is not about height, it is about getting good position and boxing out. shelden and horford have the fundamentals to be great rebounder's and are strong enough to play heads up defense.

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Howard is taller, has a significant reach advantage, greater athleticism, and plays next to a 7'er.

Boozer plays Pf.

I'm not merely commenting on rebounding.

You don't draft at 3 and 5 for "fundamentals".

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We're a team of long shots as we envision them. A franchise repeatedly betting AGAINST the rule.

W

[dakast]

Call me crazy but I don't see how we're undersized....they're aren't that many skilled 7 footers in the league playing the Center position. Most of the Centers that Horford would be going up against are around 6'10, which is what he'll be when wearing his shoes.

[dakast]

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"This team will be too undersized yet again. Horford and SW will always have to play up to stay up. "

I wouldnt say hortford is an undersized C, everyone just says it because he is listed as a PF. Howard is only 6'10 and boozer is 6'9 and they hold down the middle for there teams. Rebounding is not about height, it is about getting good position and boxing out. shelden and horford have the fundamentals to be great rebounder's and are strong enough to play heads up defense.

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Howard is taller, has a significant reach advantage, greater athleticism, and plays next to a 7'er.

Boozer plays Pf.

I'm not merely commenting on rebounding.

You don't draft at 3 and 5 for "fundamentals".

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We're a team of long shots as we envision them. A franchise repeatedly betting AGAINST the rule.

W

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"We shouldn't have drafted Horford" appears to be the theme of the night....but my question is, who would you have drafted in his place?

There's no real need to say we should have made a trade on draft night becuase I think it's becoming clear that ownership didn't want to go down that road.

The only other choices BK could have made was:

Draft Yi -- I don't think a 7 foot small foward sitting the bench behind Marvin would shoot us into the playoffs or

Draft Conley -- An undersized PG who's a great ballhandler but can't shoot.....also if we had drafted Conley there wouldn't be a big at #11 for us to take.

[atlien]

I think our athleticism poses some mismatch problems. Chauncey Billups has commented multiple times about how it has given them problems in the past.

Joe is still going to get better, especially now that we ahve a legit running mate in Law. Smoove is working with Hakeem to get even better this offseason. I have faith in Marvin; I think he emerges this year.

Let's see how this offseason plays out before we make any definitive statements. A shrewd trade or two could make all the difference.

Also, kinda off-topic. Does anyone remember those games in December - when speedy was relatively healthy - against Chicago and Utah where we were up big and then crumbled in the 4th quarter?

THOSE games give me some faith. For 3 quarters WE ABSOLUTELY DOMINATED THE OTHER TEAM. We simply looked A LOT better. Than, in the fourth quarter, we played scared and get owned (JJ was the only one doing anything).

This team has a lot of talent now. We didnt hit a grand slam (amare wouldve done that), but a double aint so bad. Some trades could really push us to be a top 6 team in the East (baby steps people).

[ncthompson11]

"Boozer plays Pf."

Then utahs center is okur? He is a perimeter guy who loves to shoot threes. Boozer may not be there actual "center" but he is there true post threat. Im about tired of the labeling of players on this board. If horford is not our center then he is our post player. I guess we will have to play with 2 PFs this year because horford is going to start.

[Guest Walter]

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Call me crazy but I don't see how we're undersized....they're aren't that many skilled 7 footers in the league playing the Center position. Most of the Centers that Horford would be going up against are around 6'10, which is what he'll be when wearing his shoes.

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...in the post. I love JS, but he is at best a Sf/Pf. Horford? I see him as a prototype Pf, but even if you stretch him out and see him as a Pf/C he's far more a Pf than center. Skill-wise the same is true. Horford will always have to be his strongest, longest self to even compete and there is nothing about his junior 13/9/1.7 that suggests he has the excess talent the Pfs performing well as center EXCEPTIONS have. JS simply doesn't have many post moves and an offseason with Hakeem won't solve that. Post moves are perhaps the hardest skill category to acquire in basketball. I almost feel they are an innate area. You either have them or you don't.

We aren't looking to be average. If we were then being undersized and playing "up" across the frontline might be OK because we do have SOME potential to hopefully make up for some of it. But again, this is a team of exceptions to the rule longshots.

W

[Guest Walter]

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The only other choices BK could have made was:

Draft Yi -- I don't think a 7 foot small foward sitting the bench behind Marvin would shoot us into the playoffs or

Draft Conley -- An undersized PG who's a great ballhandler but can't shoot.....also if we had drafted Conley there wouldn't be a big at #11 for us to take.

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Just look at Portland the year prior to see the upside of "other choices".

Second, yes I would have picked Yi, but NOT in a vacuum. I would have traded from MW, JC, and SW to acquire a legit center (prospect). Camby on one end, Bynum, Milicic, NeNe, or one of Seattle's C prospects on the other end of the age spectrum. Third, I would have drafted Crittenton. His defense is better than Law's, he's more a pure Pg, AND he can shoot.

But again, none of this in a vacuum. This draft did NOT offer a center, so why try for the second year in a row to squeeze water out of a rock?

It's conceivable that we could still trade for a center to play alongside Horford, however, we didn't draft Horford for his "talent" no matter what the ditto heads say. We drafted Horford because we romanticize his filling the long open center position. Just as importantly, there is one very big difference between Horford and Yi we don't discuss much and another very big difference between a C/Yi/JS frontline and aC/Horford/JS frontline.

First, the difference between Yi and Horford:

While Horford is the type of player whose value plummets once you drive him off the lot, Yi is the type of player style and substance, whose value increases once you draft him.

Second, the difference between a Center/Yi/JS frontline and a Center/Horford/JS frontline:

Skill-set variety and interchangability. C/Horford/JS would not provide the variety of skill set there that C/Yi/JS would. Yi is such an incredibly versatile player that he mixes well with JS, a player sometimes more suited for Sf and sometimes more suited for Pf, depending upon the matchup.

W

[AHF]

Why are you assuming Horford's value "plummets when you take him off the lot"?

I can understand arguing about whether he can play center but assume that he is Carlos Boozer V 2.0. That is pretty darn valuable in the league.

Neither Yi nor Horford have gained or lost any value as of today. Both need to prove it on the court.

[Seano]

Dude, were you born sucking on a lemon or something?

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Guys, we are in SERIOUS trouble.

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Walter, you are without a doubt THE biggest drama queen I have ever seen on any message board. I am totally serious. You could probably win some kind of Golden Razberry Award for Best Melodramatic Performance by a Message Board Poster.

You make it sound like some dire, life or death scenario here. But it's just basketball. That's all it is, a game. Whether we suck again next year, win a championship, or lie somewhere in between- none of our lives are going to be changed. We'll still have to wake up every morning, go to work, go to school, do whatever, live our lives. So why don't you put your melodramatic tendencies towards something that might actually be worth putting them to?

[Sasha_Volkov]

I don't think I'd even call Michael Jordan "sexy", much less Yi. I'd pick a different adjective.

[dakast]

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I don't think I'd even call Michael Jordan "sexy", much less Yi. I'd pick a different adjective.

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[TheDude]

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In a league of mismatch advantages we now are at a mismatch disadvantage at center and in a league of superstars we have none and none coming via this, our last real draft for some time. Guys, we are in SERIOUS trouble.

First, I do not think this team will make the playoffs, but if it does it still will not contend remotely as designed. That is an absolute farce considering what capitol we've had the last two offseasons.

Secondly, should we not make the playoffs and there results a likely and warranted accross the board firing and at least selective firesale, only JS is a sexy pick with trade value. Horford's trade value plummeted right off the lot, particularly if we play him at center. Law? Not much trade value there. MW? Not much value for his pick position. JC? Injury history and limited ceiling makes him same but worse. SW? What trade value? We have the least sexy trade capitol one could ever hope for out of 2, 3, 5, 6, and 11 picks. On top of that, we mortaged our pick next year. This rebuild is really now IN it's 5th year, counting the capitol spent next year. We can't even afford to keep this bunch of unsexy prospects together after this year!

We are in trouble!

This team will be too undersized yet again. Horford and SW will always have to

play up to stay up

. It's hard enough to play 82 games in this league. To play 82 when you are ALWAYS as a physical disadvantage is just plain crazy. Note: When spending a 3 and 5 pick on your center position, one should not find itself undersized there.

This team will not be talented enough yet again. This team will still find scoring hard, not having a true Pg to make it any easier on everybody and not having misatch advantages or the necessary talent, various skill sets, and aggressiveness to get the hard scores when we need them most.

This team will not even play good enough defense. It will still be at a mismatch DISadvantage despite all the capitol invested THROUGHOUT the post and at Pg (unless we want more of Speedy and his limitations elsewhere).

I'm absolutely sick of ringing this bell every year, getting called out for pessimism, being proven right year after year with no acknowledgement much less apology, but I'm sticking my neck out again. WE REMAIN A LESSER TALENTED, FRANKENSTEIN TEAM! I expect the usual personal attacks.

What I don't expect is that a team full of players DRAFTED TO BE THE LONG SHOT EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE to become a playoff team this year or contenders ever.

I don't want to say this but it is true. Almost all our picks were drafted to be exceptions to the rule (SW at C, Horford at C, JC at Sg), reaches (SW certainly), or outright lame misrepresentations of "BPA" in the face of sure fire franchise Pgs. We don't have mismatch advantages. We don't have superstars. We don't.

All we've got are longshots! All longshots with the 2, 3, 5, 6, 11 picks. How do you end up with 5 longshots at these pick positions?!? I'm not talking longshots to being superstars. I'm talking longshots to being majority time starters at the position (SW or Horford = center, JC = Sg) or role (MW = superstar) we drafted them for. They're all longshots to reach merely nothing special as we have them plotted out!

I expect to be flamed for this but despite the personal attacks my record has been ON POINT about whom we should draft and why and who we should NOT draft and why. This realism goes over fanatics like a lead balloon, but until we

quit betting on exceptions to the rule

, all we'll be is a team full of unrealized long shots who blame karma, coaching, Belkin, or Stern for our number not being called.

...

Note: We had a chance, not a great one, but a chance this offseason to increase our odds. Yi, while not a sure thing, was an uber talented, tall, long, skilled, atheletic, superstar potential risk worth taking

that would hold its value thoughout just about anything

.

W

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man, that's a lot of stuff to type just to be wrong.

[ecc423]

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Dude, were you born sucking on a lemon or something?

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Guys, we are in SERIOUS trouble.

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Walter, you are without a doubt THE biggest drama queen I have ever seen on any message board. I am totally serious. You could probably win some kind of Golden Razberry Award for Best Melodramatic Performance by a Message Board Poster.

You make it sound like some dire, life or death scenario here. But it's just basketball. That's all it is, a game. Whether we suck again next year, win a championship, or lie somewhere in between- none of our lives are going to be changed. We'll still have to wake up every morning, go to work, go to school, do whatever, live our lives. So why don't you put your melodramatic tendencies towards something that might actually be worth putting them to?

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thank you.