Wally Wants the Max

[jaywalker72]

Citing his all-star appearance and his work on and off the court, the Timberwolves forward is seeking a max extension.

His agent also cites the Hornets offer to Baron Davis off the max as a precedent, but I don't see Wally as a max player.

If he gets this kind of contract, the Wolves will be strapped. They would be in the same position as the Nets and the Warriors who are paying max money (Van Horn, Jamison) to a non-max players who aren't the top player on the team.

[Guest]

I can't say I am surprised.

The Wolves are in big trouble.Also,if Wally wants the

max nobody is going to want him.Does he really think

16/4 is worth the max?

Somebody needs to lack the smackdown on these guys.

[jaywalker72]

No doubt...Wally is not an impact player in the NBA, and IMO, those are the only guys who are worth the max.

It goes back to replacement value....How easily can Wally be replaced and at what cost?

Would it be so bad for the Wolves to move Wally and pick up a cheaper SF alternative and maybe get a pick or two to boot?

I think the Wolves would be worst off for not having Wally, but not as bad off as they would be if they got anywhere close to maxing the guy.

[Hawks4ever]

Wally is overrated. The only reason he made the all-star team is because the West doesn't have many great SGs.

Wally can't even play great defense or create his own shot. Terrible.

[Traceman]

His agent can say all he wants to about Brand and Davis only making the All Star game as injury replacements while Wally was voted in by the coaches. If he thinks Wally is so much better than those guys, why doesn't he call those teams and see if they would be willing to trade Brand or Davis for Wally straight up? I'm sure the T'Wolves would be more than happy to facilitate either of those deals!

Wally is a very good player but he's definitely not a max player. I'd rather have Rashard Lewis and I don't think he's a max player either. I can see Wally getting a contract along the lines of the one that I suggested we offer JT (7 yrs/$77 million) but certainly no more than that.

[BlackHawkDown]

I agree. Wally is so overarated its ridiculous. I remember when Dan Marjle got the kind of press Wally gets. Tell you the truth every time I saw wally play he played that "sissy euroball" actually if we changed his first name to Jurgen he would fit right into the Euroleague. I cant believe Minn. got a scrub like that so high in the draft. Every now and then Mchale starts acting like Babcock.

[cyman3]

Now i dont say this a lot esp with remarks from blackhawkdown, so these words are very seldomly used.

but hes rite. Max players should be the BEST PLAYER on the team. I think there should only be 29 Max players in the NBA.

Wally is the type of player in which hes the 2nd (at best) or 3rd option. He makes a living out of his sweet shooting.

but to get the max u have to meet the conditions:

1) a great guy and fan favorite

2) leader on the court and off

3) best player on the team

I do think ABDUR-RAHIM is a max player. By no means is Wally in the same rank as SHAREEF. In fact, i dont think TERRY is a max player either.

I can live with Terry making $8-10 Million (at most) a year. But whats more reasonable is 7-9 Million.

Same with WALLY WORLD.

[Traceman]

I have to disagree with you there. Just because I don't think Wally is worth the max doesn't mean I think he's a scrub either. He is a very good player, just not a max player.

In addition, are you implying that Marjele was soft? Please! They don't come much tougher than Thunder Dan and before he hurt his back, he was very explosive taking the ball to the rack.

I've got a question for you. I've heard you dog out some very good players like Nowitzki, Stojokovic, Sczerbiak, Divac, Turkoglu, Marjele, Kukoc, etc. What players of non African-American decent do you consider to be good players? Do you think that all non African American players play "sissy euroball" (a ridiculous term in my opinion) because that is sure what it sounds like. Did Larry Bird play "sissy euroball?" He was never a big dunker or a great defender. What about Kevin McHale? I'm just curious...

[Traceman]

LAL is a prime example. Shaq and Kobe are max players without question. Boston has 2 max players, so does Orlando if Hill gets healthy. Dallas has at least two max players in Nowitzki and Finley and Nash is damn close. Philly has two in Iverson and Mutombo. I don't think Deke is worth $17 million/season but he's definitely worth at least $10.6 million/season (the current max). There may be a few others but you get my point.

In addition, I don't think a max player necessarily has to have all the attributes you mentioned. Rasheed Wallace is a prime example. In addition, I don't know many people who would consider Iverson or Gary Payton "great guys" or a "leaders off the court." I think different things make different players max players. Some have all the great attributes you mention but some are just so talented that they don't have to have all the great attributes in order for them to get the max. At least that's the way I see it.

[BlackHawkDown]

I have not mentioned race once. Race has litttle do to nothing to do with sports. The rest of society yes, but on the floor its all about skill. I hate that people always bring race into the equation when it isn't germain and when it is they shun anyone who brings it up. I hate eminem not b/c he is white ,but b/c he is a bad rapper.

And although I shouldn't acknowledge a ignorant comment like this I will

White Non sissy baller Jason Williams

Black Sissy baller Tim Duncan ( He actually only 50% sissy baller )

Im sorry if I see Suburban kids, Farm boys from Indiana/Iowa/ South Dakota and Europeans playing the same style. Jumpshot, garbage drive, no Dunk, Jumpshot, Gaarbage defense, cry foul. But facts are facts. Look at Kukoc. It not their race, unless the demigods out there still want say blacks are genetically atheletic.

Alot of African American players are mixed i.e. Jason Kidd, Mike Bibby. Now tell me what does there racial background have to do with anything. And to add to that I think Europe's only non sissy baller Tony Parker is mixed also.

So what is your point. I need to like white player, just b/c their white. That type of racist attide is pointless and has nothing to do with business or basketball.

[BlackHawkDown]

Thanks!!!

Good to have you on my side. But there could 2 or 3 max plyers per team i.e Shaq/Kobe. Dallas has tree (Yes, and one them is Dirk),O town 2, In fact we have two SAR/JT and in a year hopefully 3 Slim( granted he will have to put up major numbers.

[Traceman]

Man I've heard it all now! You've posted a lot of things that I STRONGLY disagree with over the past few days but this takes the cake! The MVP of the league is a sissy? A guy who averages over 25 ppg and over 12 rbg is a sissy? A guy who led his team to the NBA title just a few years ago is a sissy? The best player in the NBA not named Shaq is a sissy? I'm beginning to think being called a "sissy baller" by you is a compliment!

You're right, Jason Williams is not a sissy, he's just a slightly above average PG who can't hold a candle to a "sissy baller" like Steve Nash.

You say you're not racist but then you make statements like:

"Im sorry if I see Suburban kids, Farm boys from Indiana/Iowa/ South Dakota and Europeans playing the same style. Jumpshot, garbage drive, no Dunk, Jumpshot, Gaarbage defense, cry foul."

The description you provide there certainly doesn't fit any black people I know. How many black guys in the NBA do you know who fit that profile? How many black guys in the NBA lived on farms (or in the suburbs) in Indiana, Iowa or South Dakota? How many black guys in the NBA are from Europe? Is it a coincidence that the ONE European who you think is a good player (Tony Parker) is "mixed?" Hmmmm.

In addition, is it a coincidence that ALL of the coaches that you consider to be the "best" are African American? How can you have the audacity to call Isiah Thomas, who has done NOTHING in the NBA as a coach, a better coach than Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, Pat Riley, Don Nelson, Rick Adelman and a whole lot of other coaches. I don't think Isiah is a very good coach at all. Sure he had a young team but he had some proven veterans too like Miller, Rose and Best. He also had Jermaine O'neal who everybody knew was ready to bust out and have a great season. That team underachieved as bad as any team in the league besides the Bucks and MAYBE the Raptors.

The funny thing is, I don't think you realize how racist your statements sound. I don't think you intend for them to sound racist at all, but I've got to tell you that from where I'm sitting, they do sound racist.

All that being said, you can like whatever players you want to like. You can like whatever coaches you want to like too. If all the players you like just "happen" to be black guys who can dunk and/or go to the hole, that's certainly your perogative. If you want to "dis" guys who have actually proven they can play in this league like Donyell Marshall, Kukoc, Stojokovic, Kukoc, Divac, Turkoglu and others while suggesting that we should build for the future by trying to build around unproven guys like Leon Smith, D'Angelo Collins, Lenny Cooke and Chris Marcus, that's your perogative too. All I can say is thank God we have Babs as GM and Lon as coach!

[Guest]

All I can say is thank God we have Babs as GM and Lon as coach! "

That's pushing it Trace.

I do disagree with everything he says and I discussed the topic longer

than I should and it lead to me getting very ill on the subject.

I agree I'd love to have Tim Duncan right now....I'd give JT/SAR

both for him EASY.There is more to basketball than being flashy..

If flash is all you want you can go to rucker park.

A jumpshot takes alot more to work at than Athletic ability.The NBA

has a boatload of problems now and Flash more than REAL skill is

actually a good part of the problem.

[cyman3]

Yea i guess there could be more than 1 MAX player on a team.

When i said 29 MAX PLAYERS i didnt mean to say 1 per team.

for ex: Lakers have 2 max players who are well-worth it.

the Bullls have 0 (sorry, but Rose is an allstar... almost a max player in my book) and same with Grizzles.

[cyman3]

"And to add to that I think Europe's only non sissy baller Tony Parker is mixed also."

- i asked u why u dislike all EUROs except for TONY PARKER.

Cuz u keep mentioning that u like players who take it hard to the rim (who doesnt?). The last time i checked, Parker didnt dunk on anyone. Shoot, i havent seen him dunk at all (although i only seen a couple SPURS games the past year). Im sure he can but i dont plan on seeing him in a dunk contest anytime soon.

The guys game is this:

1) Set up ur teammates

2) Drive to the hole when they dish out

3) Shot the open 3

Sounds to me like he plays EURO ball to me.

[BlackHawkDown]

You are to conscious of race.

1.

For your information there are black kids in the subburbs, rural America and Europe, and they are as garbage as their white conterparts.

2.

I mention Phil Jackson in my second tier. So what if all my first tier coaches are black, unfortunately you are so conscious of their race and not their intellect that you forgot about their success, name any coach, other than phil that has had tier success.

3.

Tony Parker is 5'11", 6'0" on a good day I dont expect highflying dunks from him the way I would from the 8'11'' PG that usually come over.

4.

Hmm.. Who brought up race. Sure wasn't me. Its sad that if your not some sort Europhile or Larry Bird psychophant that your branded racist. Truth be know I'm starting to wonder about you Why is race even being brought up. I care about one thing when I come to this site BALL

5.

As for the Tim Duncan comment I should have extrapolated more. Tim Duncan is Great (Top 10) but he is way to soft for his height and I blame it more on sissy baller David Robinson than any thing else. Eurostyle sissy ball can work but it has to be executed VERY VERY well. Infact DR and TD are the only players I've ever seen pull it off. (save Dirk)

Lokk just because someone doesn't get choked up watch rocky, RUdy or Hoosiers doesn't make them racist, so let it go.

Look let talk ball, I would like to here your comments on the lineup I posted. Marcus, Collins and James are all ? in my mind that is why I post to get more feed back. If you just want to talk race lets move to the anything but part of the page.

[Guest Walter]

Simply, the breakdown linked below suggest that at least two players should be max players ("Upper Class") on a team. Ideally you would hope to have 3 (or more) "upper class players", but 1 of them should ideally be a budget star (i.e. a high draft pick or a FA player that plays well above his salary).

http://www.realgm.com/src_gm_articles.php?artid=managing

In reply to:

---

"Team Salary Balance

What smart teams are finding is that to construct a winning team, not only do you need the proper balance of skills, you need a proper balance of salaries. Here is how you might construct a well-balanced team:

Two Upper Class players to lead the team.

Five Middle Class players to fill out the remaining starting positions and the first two players off the bench.

Seven Lower Class players to complete the roster (with a couple on the injured reserve)."

---

You just can't afford to be so cheap as to not pay for TWO "upper class" players (or so loose with your money to pay for more). Sure there are exceptions, for example when your stars are in the midst of their rookie contracts, but rarely does that happen and never does that last.

Oh, and Wally and his agent are just posturing but even they must know he's not worth what they are asking. What is the max allowable for him anyway?

W

[Traceman]

Where do you come up with this BS? You said:

"For your information there are black kids in the subburbs, rural America and Europe, and they are as garbage as their white conterparts."

Say what! Well let me see. Tracy McGrady is from Hill in Auberndale, FL, a town of about 9,000 people. That sure as hell sounds like the suburbs or rural America to me.

Kobe Bryant went to Lower Merion Highschool in PA, a suburb of Philly. He also spent a large part of his childhood in Europe so guess he should REALLY suck by your standards.

KG is from that great Metropolis of Mauldin, SC.

Ray Allen is from the big city of Dalzell, SC.

Karl Malone is from the happening city of Summerfield, LA.

Hell, even Shaq was an Army brat. He wasn't raised in the city.

You think Wilmington, NC is a big city? A pretty good basketball player named Michael Jordan came from there.

I could go on and on but hopefully you get the point.

Your statements clearly indicate that you think the best basketball players come from the big city but the truth is that there are just as many great players, if not MORE, that come from rural America or the suburbs DESPITE the fact that the big cities are where the vast majority of the US population is.

As far as coaches go, what success? I could name 10 coaches in the NBA who have accomplished more in the NBA than Isiah Thomas, Mo Cheeks, Nate McMillan, Doc Rivers or Paul Silas. The funny thing is, I think they are all very good coaches with the exception of Zeke. I just don't think they are the BEST coaches i the NBA, at least not yet.

I think Zeke's teams have under achieved TREMENDOUSLY. Lord knows I have questioned Lon at times but I'd take him all day over Zeke as a coach. Zeke was one of the greatest PGs of all time but I think he is on the borderline of being a downright horrible coach. With that, I'll let the issue go.

As far as my comments on your lineup, here they are:

I think Marcus has a chance to be pretty good but I don't think he will EVER be as good as Theo Ratliff. I wouldn't even CONSIDER making a move to get him at Theo's expense. Would you trade Theo for Curtis Borchardt? Well Borchardt CLEARLY outplayed Marcus head to head. If we could get Marcus to back Theo up, great!

I wouldn't even CONSIDER Collins as being a future piece of this franchise. I view him as having less of a chance to become a big time player as Leon Smith and with Leon, DJ and DG on the roster, we have enough players who need to develop. Collins MIGHT make it but I certainly wouldn't plan the future of this franchise around someone like him. He's nowhere NEAR as athletically gifted as Tyson Chandler plus he has a lot of issues. I wouldn't be oposed to picking him and trying him out on the practice squad (Toronto already beat us to it) but I wouldn't see him as worthy of taking a chance on. If Collins ever becomes half the player Donyell Marshall is, I will be shocked if that gives you any indication how I feel about him.

LeBron James would be an INCREDIBLE acquisition but at this point, the only way we will land him is if we win the lottery. I can't imagine any team giving up the right to draft James on the sheer marketability alone unless they were getting at LEAST a proven YOUNG All Star in return. SAR is the only player on our roster who could likely be traded for James RIGHT NOW. I don't think a team would take JT in a trade for him.

My vision for our future is to build upon what we already have in SAR, JT and Theo. I think DJ is a big part of the equation as well. My goal as GM would be to find an all star caliber (or future all star caliber) player to go along with those 4. I would use Nazr, Kukoc and picks as my primary trade bait because I think those are our most valuable commodities outside of the four players I just mentioned. Will Babs be able to make a great trade under those terms? I don't know but I think that should be his goal. Mike Miller would be a hell of an acquisition if he can figure out a way to get it done (3 way?)with Nazr/picks. If he could do that, our future looks pretty damn good from where I'm sitting.

[Guest]

Traceman is correct!I think there is a hidden adjenda to what

BHD is saying.....

I can pick out the type of players BHD likely hates:

Duncan/David Robinson/Karl Malone(as much as I don't

like the guy)These guys carry themselves real well.

I don't understand why people got to hate these guys all

the time.

[BlackHawkDown]

Secret Agenda? I like Karl Malone as a player. As an individual I thik he is a wierdo. Anyway I think I shouldn't use geography. Besides, The rural sout is very differnt from Iowa/North Dakota. The rural south puts out a lot of great players. And nothing with Kobe counts, his father is a pro player. But anyway my real point is I hate sissy ball, if you couldn't play at Rucker Park and win you shouldn't be in the league and alot of players believe me would get their ankles broke at rucker.

I HATE SISSYBALL and all of you know what I mean so stop picking btwn the lines for a hidden agenda.

My secret Agent. I WANT TO RULE THE WORLD!!!