The System - (Offense)

[Gray Mule]

What is the REAL problem with Hawks Offense?

As of right now, Hawks offense just isn't getting the

job done. Why?

Just curious to see what Hawksquawk nation thinks.

[Lawstudent101]

is this really needed?

do you not look at the posts everyone is making?

Clearly the BIGGEST problem that can be correctly very easily is WOODY.

[coachx]

OK, I'm off work so I can finally type a half a** post without being on hold on the phone or listenting to a computer give me directions to get to where I need to go.

I will briefly discuss a handful of "plays" we run but I will add how to run them more effeciently.

Law runs more plays then does Lue. Lue runs the clear out for Smith or JJ or the pick and roll every time he does not shoot it himself.

Law actually mixes it up and runs different plays more frequently.

Law likes to run the play where both of our wings cut through the paint for screens then each wing pops out on the opposite side from which they started (sometimes on a flare for a 3 but more often on curl for a catch and shoot or a curl back to the basket. Simple play all teams run. With JJ and Marvin we should be running this play alot to get them open looks and catch and shoots. Also very effective with Salim as a SG and JJ or Marvin at SF. (Not a good play when Smoove is playing SF). This play can also open up the middle of the floor for Law to penetrate if the wings flare, rather then curl, from the cross screens. If both wings flare to the 3 point line Law has a split second to hit them for an open jumper. (PERFECT TIMING AND PLACEMENT OF THE PASS IS ESSENTIAL)If Law misses the timely pass,the defenders normally overplay to catch up to their man and the wing then pulls a back door cut or the floor is spread for Law to penetrate. (We are getting this play dowm.....Law has to keep playing and the feel and timimg of this play will be our bread and butter). The wings have to also know win to curl, when to flare, and when to backdoor cut off the flare. This takes time to develop chemistry and timing with your PG. THIS IS A SIMPLE PLAY BUT TO RUN IT PERFECTLY TAKES CHEMISTRY AND AN EXCEPTIONAL FEEL FOR THE GAME BY ALL INVOLVED. LUE IS NOT CAPABLE OF OF RUNNING THIS PLAY RIGHT AND OUR YOUNG GUYS ARE NOT REACTING QUICK ENOUGH. Kidd runs this play toperfection with Carter and Jefferson. Our guys need to study how NJ does it so perfectly. I would love for Mark Jackson or Kidd to spend a week with the team on that play.

Law also likes to bring it up quick and get the ball in JJ's hands with 20 seconds left of shot clock. Hard to call that a play but that was half of Douge Collins play book.(Not a bad play when JJ is HOT and he gets the ball with 20 seconds to work) If JJ is not feeling it he has the time to switch to another play or create off the dribble. This lets JJ go one on one in a clear out to shoot or create for others with plenty of clock to explore other options if JJ can't get by his man. (Every team with an all star SG/SF does this). Law then runs through some screens and sets up for a corner 3 to spread the floor or come back to the top to relieve JJ if needed. (On these clear outs for JJ, defenders often turn their back on their man to watch JJ which allows for a quick cut to the basket............what Law needs to do is add is add a wrinkle to this play. On occasion, when he gives it up to JJ, attempt to give JJ a quick screen. If your lucky half the time you can get a switch and get the smaller PG on JJ. Now JJ can easily shoot over or post up the smaller PG. (Chauncey and Rip Hamilton do this alot in Detroit to give Rip a smaller player to shoot over).

Another play that is run alot is JJ in the high post. Once he get doubled teamed (normally by Marvin's man) Marvin has a open jumper or a big guys comes out on JJ leaving Horford open underneath. If JJ is not double teamed he is in a great scoring area.(Again a play to play off your star)

We run the PG screens with Horford & Shelden but neither seems to roll to the basket. I think Lo Wright is showing how he played (set the screen then hit the mid range jumper). However, Sheldon and Horford would be better off going to the hole. Horford can make the mid range jummper but not Shelden.

Marvin has been cutting to the hole without the ball much more frequently. Chills has alwayse done this exceptionally well. It is up to these 2 guys to cut and keep the offense from geting too stagnant. Smoove needs to do this much better.....this kid needs someone next to him in the film room telling him what he should be thinking, thinking 2 or 3 steps ahead of the play. Guys with Smooves athelticsm fall in to read /react game and forget the cerebral nuancies of the game that invlove moving wothout the ball and playing off your teamates.

This is more of a style or concept and not an exact play but.....Sheldon hangs around the perimeter on offense more then Horford. The reason for this, he is wide as a truck and gives excellent screens, rarely moving and commiting illegal screens like Horford is still prone to do(and ZaZa is awful at). Shelden is also trying to give room in the paint so JJ, Smoove, Marvin, and Chills can freely slash. That is fine and good...but Sheldon quit shooting the borderline college 3's. I don't care how open you are.

There are several different plays to free up JJ but they all do essentially the same thing. We are running these plays effeciently. In the NFL if you throw a pass late it usually an interception. Same concept in basketball. If the pass is not on time it may not be a interception but you have essentially "busted" the play. We need to hit JJ qicker on the flares and curls that he runs off screens so he can catch and shoot freely. We are geting him the ball a little late where the defender has had time to catchup with him. This makes the offense stagnant and we revert to one on one of the dribble iso stuff (that I hate). JJ is good at puting the ball on the floor and creating but I'd rather him get that open catch and shoot shot the curl is designed for (he ecxcelled at catch and shoot in Phoneix but we are unable to free him up for that b/c all the intention is on him offensively and our passes are not as timely as those Nash delivered).

Then of course there is the most basic of them all swinging the ball from side to side looking for Horford or Smith in post or Marvin or Chills on the cut.

We occaisonly run a lot of back door cuts with Chills. That is probably the only play in the play book designed for Chills. We starting to incorporate Marvin into this too. We havedoneit with Smoove as well.......that is how he got alot of alleyoops out of timeouts last year.

The offensive system is a very simple one. With our young team and a rookie PG learning on the fly, it needs to be simple but I would like to see some fresh ideas. Too bad it normally takes new people for new ideas.

One thing I want to see that has nothing to do with play calling. Law use his deadly mid range game. Law would hit these wicked runnung floater from mid range with both his right and left hand. A shot that is almost unstoppable if yoy can shoot it. I saw him try it once and there was an air ball. I want to see that floater come out once he gets comfortable. It is such a lost art.

Just my 2 cents.

[coachx]

Sorry for the sloppy post to read.

Someting came up and had to take a call. Mean while the time to edit ran out.

[oken]

great post and analysis

[Cwell]

kind of like this floater?

Link

I didn't know Acie wanted come here

Link

[mrhonline]

That was more than 2 cents' worth, coachx.

[AnnArborHawk]

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Another play that is run alot is JJ in the high post. Once he get doubled teamed (normally by Marvin's man) Marvin has a open jumper or a big guys comes out on JJ leaving Horford open underneath. If JJ is not double teamed he is in a great scoring area.(Again a play to play off your star)

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In the 4th quarter of the Phoenix game, they ran this play very well. They had JJ and Smoove posting on opposite sides of the key, waiting on the double-team and then kicking to Marvin. He's money on that shot and Smoove seems to really be able to pass the ball well in that situation (I believe he had several assists). If Smoove can consistently produce from the post position and teams have to respect him enough to double him with regularity, Marvin should get a lot of open looks. But to your point, coachx, this play is as much about timing on that kickout as anything. Excellent post...thanks!

[coachx]

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Clearly the BIGGEST problem that can be correctly very easily is WOODY.

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There is more to it then that.

If Woody is the "motivator" and "defenseive designer" ..then he is doing a good job. Too bad the head coach's job is to encompass every facet of the game.

Does Woody give Drew charge of the offense and teaching players how to read and react in practice ? Who knows ?

Without physically being at practice it is impossible to know how the team works on its offensive sets or how well the coaches are coaching it and drilling it.

We can say that no coach has ever been able to get Speedy Claxton or Tyron Lue to run an efficient offensive system (and several excellent coaches have tried). If Phil Jackson, Byron Scott, & Greg Popovich can't get either of these guys to be true NBA PGs with guys like Duncan, Shaq, Kobe around them.......then how can you blame Woody for not accomplishing that with young inexpierenced players around them ? That is why it is hard for me to give all the blame to Woody and feel right about it.

The only answer is to play Acie Law. If we see offensive growth and better flow and continuity (whioch I already see with Law in there) we then know that our PG personal was the problem.

[AHF]

Nobody has gotten Speedy or Lue to run a team's offense as the primary ballhandler and been able to run a standout offense, sure, but they have been a part of several teams with very well-defined and functional offenses. It is hard for me to put the lack of any half-court offensive plan (other than a 2 man game usually revolving around JJ) solely because of them as well. BK & Woodson are the ones ultimately responsible for manning and running an offense and if Woodson needed someone else he surely could have gotten someone like Steve Blake or Luke Ridnour in past seasons if he told BK that was essential to make his offense work. I just don't think Woody or his staff know how to implement an offensive system. With the same parts I think someone like Rick Adelman or Marc Iavoni would have given this team an identity on the offensive end of the court.

[Lawstudent101]

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Clearly the BIGGEST problem that can be correctly very easily is WOODY.

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There is more to it then that.

If Woody is the "motivator" and "defenseive designer" ..then he is doing a good job. Too bad the head coach's job is to encompass every facet of the game.

Does Woody give Drew charge of the offense and teaching players how to read and react in practice ? Who knows ?

Without physically being at practice it is impossible to know how the team works on its offensive sets or how well the coaches are coaching it and drilling it.

We can say that no coach has ever been able to get Speedy Claxton or Tyron Lue to run an efficient offensive system (and several excellent coaches have tried). If Phil Jackson, Byron Scott, & Greg Popovich can't get either of these guys to be true NBA PGs with guys like Duncan, Shaq, Kobe around them.......then how can you blame Woody for not accomplishing that with young inexpierenced players around them ? That is why it is hard for me to give all the blame to Woody and feel right about it.

The only answer is to play Acie Law. If we see offensive growth and better flow and continuity (whioch I already see with Law in there) we then know that our PG personal was the problem.

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the only answer is to play acie law?

WOODY DOESN'T PLAY ACIE LAW. HE GIVES HIM THE ROYAL IVEY TREATMENT MAN.

SHOULD I NOT BLAME WOODY FOR THAT TOO? C'MON NOW

[coachx]

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Nobody has gotten Speedy or Lue to run a team's offense as the primary ballhandler and been able to run a standout offense, sure, but they have been a part of several teams with very well-defined and functional offenses.

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You may be right. However, I would not call Ridnour or Blake ideal candidates. Sonics were wanting the #11 pick or Chills or Ridnour, I presume. I like the way it played out forthe long term in geting Law.

One thing those teams had that makes offense easy as grandma's apple pie. That is 2 allstar 7 footers. Duncan or Shaw in the middle makes life easy on your teamates. Not to mention you have other crafty veterans with years of NBA expierence playing around them.

A very different situation is here in Atlanta then what was in LA and San Antonio.

I know the popular opinion is fire Woody. I just think there is more to it which some don't account for.

I would give Woody until Christmas to show me somthing and even then the only way I replace him is to have a true coach with NBA head coaching expierence ready as a replacement. It is impossible to steal a Paul Westphaul now b/c he is employed by Dallas as an assistant nad no way they let him leave in the middle of a season. We would need to exclusivly goafter people who are unemployed and that really narrows the pool down and makes it more like a shallow puddle of coaches to choose from.

[coachx]

I play devils advocate too much.

Sure Woody deserves some blame.

We got 3 very winnable games on the horizon. I am anxious to see how they perform before I get to high or low.