ESPN: This Weekend.

[Traceman]

whole new level. I have heard some comments from people that just leave me shaking my head. That being said, I don't blame ESPN, the AJC, The NY Times, CNN or any other media outlet that provides these people with a forum in which to espouse their views, no matter how jacked up they are. The freedom to say those things is what makes America great.

As a kid, I grew up in NE GA and had to endure watching the KKK demonstrate and parade up and down the public city streets on NUMEROUS occasions. I certainly didn't agree with the BS they were espousing and I certainly thought they were idiots but I still recognize that they had a right to say the things they were saying.

As for the discussion about Tiger Woods and MJ not doing enough in the black community, a lot of people in the black community believe that is an accurate statement. A lot of people feel that they should "give back" more in order to be considered as great as black athletes like those I mentioned previously. It has nothing to do with their talent but rather the mark they will leave on the world BEYOND the games they play.

[TheDude]

i actually agree that i think that mj and woods should do more but hey, that's me, my opinion, what I would do if i were them.. but they can do what they want and shouldn't be dissed for it...

[Guest]

and we also have no idea what they do do. A lot of celebrities give under pseudonyms and annonymously, not wanting to draw attention and "praise" for their contributions, just wanting to do their service without detracting/altering the spotlight from their chosen careers.

[KB21]

If these people are so upset that the international players are getting in over some American players, then they should try actually coaching the fundamentals over here.

American basketball has gotten to the point to where it is nothing but a playground style, and I'm sorry, but that's not basketball.

The international players are improving the league. These guys at 17 and 18 years of age actually know how to dribble, take a jump shot, and pass the ball. Basketball isn't all about how high you can jump or how many dunks you can get, and American players need to get that through their head, IMO.

[Guest]

take it up with the AAU coaches who try to ride the coattails of potential stars from the age of 13. IMO, not enough coaches of young athelets are "mean" enough, aka, hard enough on their players. That's why you see so little improvement on in their games aside from developing athleticism and body control. They don't truly work on their shots (repetitions aren't enough, mechanics need to be involved) and post moves, well, I won't get started, but those take time, practice, and provide little glory in the HS/AAU settings...see Tim Duncan, exhibit A. Karl Malone, exhibit B (though I can't stand the guy).

[Guest]

What happend last year?The USA kids got their @sses

handed to them.Got handed to them by forgien teams.

Those guys really represented America well,..=)

[Playmaker0017]

Traceman,

I agree. It is freedom of speech, but there is also such a thing as self-censorship.

Self-censorship is not breaking anyone's constitutional rights, actually it is expounding on them and asking one to use common sense. Something that doesn't get used too often stateside.

ESPN is a sports programming network. To play the race card discredits real cases of racism and "numbs" us to it. So, when it actually happens we go ... "Oh, right."

I mean, I went to a baseball game a while back and a guy was wearing a shirt that said "YANKEES S**K, JETER SWAL**WS" and he was cussing through the ballgame while being surrounded by 5-10 year olds. While I don't feel it is the GOVERNMENT'S job to shut them up and make them dress correctly -- it is OUR job as citizens. Self-censorship. The ballpark should say, "No way, bub. Not in here! Not that shirt!"

Now before you go off and say that is offending rights to speech, remember "private institutions" can ban whatever the heck they want. The constitutional rights are not applicable. For instance, I could NOT wear that shirt to a fancy restaurant. I can't smoke in "NO SMOKING AREAS". I can't cuss loudly while in a movie theater. All these are quick examples.

Worst thing is... self-censorship starts with and ends with the media. If they don't portray it ... people won't do it. If they show the clean cut kid as cool, guess what ... he will be.

Which brings me full circle to the ESPN thing. They have a civil duty to provide decent programming. While not a true CHARGE, it is semi-expected of them. While it is an opinion that is fair, it doesn't help some 15 year-old "black" child develop an open opinion of the "white" majority. It would jade me, and would cause me to have trepidation ... I can only imagine what it could do to others.

But, again, that is MY OPINION and just like theirs ... I am allowed to air it. (except unless the mods here take it off ... because this is a private "institution", whereby they can pick and choose what stays)

Play.

[coachx]

The truth can hurt but the truth is some "blacks" are overly sensitive and play the race card for every excuse they can think of.

Our society is to the point where most universities and corporate jobs have minority quotas. Acceptance to a job or school is now a numbers game instead of getting the most qualified people. Jus b/c a certain % of the population is a certain race does not mean every job and school should represent that pro-rata %. Any rational person will tell it should be based on a person's inside (intelligence, expierence, education, grade, work ethic) However,1000's of kids learn other wise and must go the their 2nd choice for college b/c public universities must fill minority quotas for blacks. Many kids are turned down who get better grades, and better SAT scores. How do you thing a kid feels when he is not accepted b/c he is 100% white but a kid who is 50% white and 50% black with grades that are below the universty requirements is admitted to fill a Affirmitive Action quota or (Discrimination quota) so the University can recieve state funds. Why don't you hear other minorities crying such as Asians. The reason is b/c they don't need extra help to compete in America they are smart enough to do it themselves without the aid of the government to fall back on with affirmitive action. It is only blacks who raise this issue. There are now more Latinos in America than blacks but you never hear them cry, an arguement can be made that they are the hardest workers in the country. Who is to blame for this ? Society ? Jessy Jackson ? NAACP ? I don't know but I do know it is neither right nor just.

Here is an illustration about the sensitivity isssue :

Black comedians make tons of racial jokes about whites and you never hear whites complain or be offended. They just laugh b/c most of the jokes are pretty funny. You never hear them call Martin Lawrence or Chris Rock a racist or put down the Apollo or w/e that comedy show is . Why don't you hear white comedians make racial about blacks. Simple b/c blacks as whole are much mare sensitive than whites and the allegations of being racist would come out and the NAACP and Jackson would start a boycott on the comedian's next movie for being too sensitve.

So a few white kids from overseas are drafted (only 1 in the first what 17 picks or more) and peolpe call NBA executives racist, it is allegation like this from a select few that make absolutely no sense, especially wheb you consider international players recent success.

I am just saying how many people feel. Isn't it funny how a small select minority is alwayse louder and twice as sensitive as everyone else in this country.

And if this calms people down I am not 100% white. This is a bi-partisan opinion.

[coachx]

Don't be so sensitive, see the truth

[mdawg]

The panel was on the ESPN show "Outside the Lines Nightly." I think it was Friday night, and it was hosted by Bob Ley. Two of the panelists were basketball writers, and the other was a college professor. They were partially responding to anarticle written by the editor of one of the basketball magazines. In the article, he suggested that GMs were drafting more white international players because the NBA wanted to keep white people as fans of the game, and because drafting foreign players would help bring in more money from the international market. He actually suggested that the NBA was encouraging teams to draft international players. I personally think that any GM drafts the best player because they know if they don't win they will be fired. Doc Rivers made an interesting point in the story before the panel discussion. He said that the international players see the NBA as a privilege, while the American players see it as a right. I ust think the rest of the world is catching up to the USA in basketball, much like the USA is catching up with the world in soccer. Ther is nothing racial about it. If there were, would Joe Dumars (a black man) spend each of his draft picks this year on foreign players?

[mdawg]

The panel was on the ESPN show "Outside the Lines Nightly." I think it was Friday night, and it was hosted by Bob Ley. Two of the panelists were basketball writers, and the other was a college professor. They were partially responding to anarticle written by the editor of one of the basketball magazines. In the article, he suggested that GMs were drafting more white international players because the NBA wanted to keep white people as fans of the game, and because drafting foreign players would help bring in more money from the international market. He actually suggested that the NBA was encouraging teams to draft international players. I personally think that any GM drafts the best player because they know if they don't win they will be fired. Doc Rivers made an interesting point in the story before the panel discussion. He said that the international players see the NBA as a privilege, while the American players see it as a right. I just think the rest of the world is catching up to the USA in basketball, much like the USA is catching up with the world in soccer. Ther is nothing racial about it. If there were, would Joe Dumars (a black man) spend each of his draft picks this year on foreign players?

[TheDude]

well coachx, I see what you are saying but I do see a movement away from that. I have seen some white comedians make jokes concerning the black culture albeit not very often. It's a pretty complex issue when you think about it. Alot of it isn't neccessarily that black people are sensitive to it, but rather that white people are afraid of offending someeone or having themselves labeled as a racist.

Which is sad of course because it shouldn't be that way. But I do understand not wanting to be labeled because to me being labeled as a racist or say a wife-beater would be extremely upsetting to me.

I think the first step really is to separate the concept of black people apart from what is "considered" black culture. Because most of what people joke about has nothing to do with skin color but rather culture. There are many white people(including myself) that are really part of the so-called black culture while there are many black people who are part of the so-called white culture. And it's ok to joke about other cultures as long as the basis for the joke is about quirkiness or tendencies of a culture rather than nonunderstanding or negative attitude. Ok, i'm done preaching. Go Hawks.

[jjjohns3]

Sometimes it is unneccesary{see Johnny Cochran,who I think is a FOOL} but racism is nothing to play with or be Okay with or to ignore. Racism is probably worse now than it was back then.

~Peace

[Playmaker0017]

JJJohns3,

Racism is NOT worse now then it was then. Not even close.

The difference is that it is more sinister and hidden. No one admits to their racist tendencies. They hide it, they cover it up.

So, straight up racists put a smile on their face in order to move ahead in the world. All the while mulling over the racist thoughts in their head.

In the past, people were generally racist and open about it. It was accepted and even encouraged.

The problem now is that we constantly boil everything down to race. Worse than that, we boil it down to BLACK & WHITE, as if there are no other races. Even though blacks represent 12% of America. We talk about "black" culture. What is "black" culture? At the chance of sounding racist... there is no "black" culture in America. It is "AMERICAN" culture.

I mean, if we want to get technical the American Black Person is an amalgamation. They have very little in common with their ancestors in Africa. To start with the common black person in America today is 20% white. Further, due to slavery, they were bred like horses to create the "ultimate worker" (which may explain the better athletic skills inherent in the american black male).

But, the American black - who, in my opinion, is really the birthchild of America wants to associate themselves with Africa. It causes rifts. It causes segregation. Worse yet, Africa is far worse than America and the people born here have very little in common with their "native" countrymen.

I can't understand the mindset.

I can't understand how the media and government talk about integration, but at every turn point out our differences. Instead, they should focus on our similarities.

When it REALLY boils down, we are all the same species and any difference that manifests itself is due to pigmentation genetics. Big deal.

Play.

[Traceman]

with the best of them as well. All of this talk about the most qualified individuals losing corporate jobs or failing to get accepted in certain schools due to minority quotas is quite comical to me. While this certainly happens, it is by no means any worse, or different, than those same qualified individuals losing corporate jobs because the less qualified children of other employees in the corporation are hired instead of them. It is also no different when these qualified individuals fail to get into certain schools because the schools reserve a certain amount of slots for the less qualified children of their alumni. In both cases, a less qualifed individual is getting an opportunity at the expense of a more qualified individual. This has been going on FAR longer than any affirmative action "quota" issues for African Americans and yet I don't hear very many non-minority individuals in an uproar over those 2 issues.

You say that:

"Any rational person will tell it should be based on a person's inside (intelligence, expierence, education, grade, work ethic)..."

Well as far as I can tell, neither of the above issues are based on any of the factors you just listed.

Your comment stating that blacks are the only minority group that asks for or benefits from affirmative action is incredibly ignorant. Your statements implying that blacks AS A RACE are somehow inferior in intelligence are even more ignorant.

As far as being "overly sensitive" to race issues goes, some people certainly are. I'm sure my parents are a lot more sensitive to them than I am and I'm sure my grandparents were more sensitive to them than my parents are. Not being allowed to eat in restaurants because of their race, not being able to drink out of clean water fountains because of their race, having to ride on the back of the city bus, being forced to go to inferior schools and provided with out of date textbooks, being the targets of racial ephitets while watching the KKK march up and down the city streets, having crosses burned in their yards, seeing less qualified individuals get promotions, etc might have a tendency to make one a little sensitive about race issues. But I digress.

As far as comedians go, I have heard SEVERAL white comedians make jokes about blacks and more often than not, they are quite funny. Robin Williams is hilarious when he goes into his imitation of a black man and other comedians have been just as funny doing similar material.

To those of you who feel that this topic would best be continued in another forum, I agree and I apologize for taking up this space with my thoughts on this issue.

[TheDude]

"When it REALLY boils down, we are all the same species and any difference that manifests itself is due to pigmentation genetics. Big deal."

I couldn't have put it simpler yet truer myself Play.