It's pretty sickening.

[Plainview1981]

If the Celtics win the title I think I'll be sick. The Celtics aren't deserving champions for the simple fact that a 37 win team and a 45 win team took them to 7 games.

[Admin]

You think there might be any chance that maybe those 37 and 45 win teams that made big 2nd half of the season trades might be a little better than their records for the full season indicate?

Boy I would LOVE to have seen how much sh*t talking Woody would have just gotten had he blown the end of this game like Phil Jackson did by not having the Lakers foul immediately.

[Plainview1981]

Well, you can take a look at the team against other teams with winning records. After the trade, the Hawks still lost most of those games. The Hawks were 4 wins and 10 losses against teams with winning records after the allstar break. Three of those wins were against Washington, Orlando and Toronto. Neither Toronto or Washington was really that good.

The Hawks had a benefit from timing of the schedule more than anything. The Hawks offensive gains were almost offset by the extremely poor defense they played after the all star break.

Boston's playoff record this season is 13-8. Nothing to be impressed by.

[dlpin]

while it is certainly less than impressive, it is not unprecedented for a team to have tough series against teams with much worse records, and often these series end up being forgotten.

84 celtics were taken to 7 games by 5th seed NY. LA won it all in 1988 playing 3 straight 7 game series.

[Plainview1981]

Well, you got to remember that we're talking about a 45 and 37 win teams in possibly one of the worst conferences in NBA history. Moreover, this Boston team hasn't paid their dues. They haven't worked their way up. Half the roster almost was thrown together this season.

Allen

KG

Cassell

House

PJ Brown

Posey

[Admin]

They haven't paid their dues? WTF does that mean? Even if they haven't been together as a team for long they are lead by stars that have absolutely "paid their dues".

You'll never admit this but Atlanta is a lot closer to being among the best teams than the worst teams.

[dlpin]

while I am a celtics fan, I am not disagreeing with you. Im just saying that it is not unprecedented, and the NBA hype machine often makes us forget about all that. The western conference in the 80s was atrocious, and no one brings that up when talking about the lakers and magic. The 2 times the lakers failed to make the finals in the 80s was when they lost to a 40 win rockets in 81 and a 51 win rockets in 86. A team with a losing record made the finals and nowadays everyone simply forgets about that.

And as far as earning their dues, if the Cs win it its not unprecedented either. 81 Boston won it all in the first season after a blockbuster trade got them Parrish and McHale. And these are examples I can think of as a Celtics fan. I am sure there are others, (im not sure, but didnt the rockets acquire Drexler midseason before winning their titles in the 90s?)

[Plainview1981]

They haven't paid their dues? WTF does that mean? Even if they haven't been together as a team for long they are lead by stars that have absolutely "paid their dues".

It's about winning as a team. Who cares if they put up numbers on other teams? They're a thrown together team.

You'll never admit this but Atlanta is a lot closer to being among the best teams than the worst teams.

37 wins in one of the worst conferences in NBA history. That's not close to being among the best teams. They give up 105PPG after the all star break. Keep in mind, they were giving up 105PPG on a SOFT schedule. Bibby might be the worst defender in the NBA. The Hawks should deal him before next year or they will be giving up possibly more.

[PureGreatness]

not deserving my ass. this aint jail, you dont get credit for paying your dues. if your team has KG, Pierce and Allen and the 2nd best team is a overrated detroit then you should be in the finals. dont hate, apreciate.

[AHF]

Quote:

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Boy I would LOVE to have seen how much sh*t talking Woody would have just gotten had he blown the end of this game like Phil Jackson did by not having the Lakers foul immediately.

The Lakers and Jackson absolutely deserve some of that for that brain fart. That was just really stupid play. 7 championships for Phil, however, buys him some slack in the big picture but shouldn't avoid criticism for not having them foul.

[Admin]

7 championships? Ha, try 9! It's hard to believe he is going for his 10th ring. What's scary is that they have all been 3peats so let's hope that doesn't happen again if the Lakers win.

I can't believe how brand new the Lakers looked in the 4th quarter last night though. Clanking shots, not boxing out, stupid fouls, not fouling when they needed to, etc.

[AHF]

Quote:

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7 championships? Ha, try 9! It's hard to believe he is going for his 10th ring. What's scary is that they have all been 3peats so let's hope that doesn't happen again if the Lakers win.

I can't believe how brand new the Lakers looked in the 4th quarter last night though. Clanking shots, not boxing out, stupid fouls, not fouling when they needed to, etc.

Yep. Typo on the # of championships.

I am rooting for the Celtics because you know if Phil wins he is going to come out there smugly smoking a cigar to stick it to Red Auerbach, who I think was much more responsible for the Celtic championships as the coach/GM.

I still would like to see Phil have success with a team where he didn't have the best player in the entire NBA at that time. He is definitely a fantastic coach but in this more diluted era there is the challenge of more rounds of playoff basketball but the advantage of talent dilution making the best players stand out signficantly more than they did prior to all the expansion.

[dlpin]

I might be just seeing things, but to me the 4th quarter last night it seemed like the lakers of last year and beyond: Kobe trying to do everything himself, not involving his teammates, and his teammates mentally checking out of the game because of that. Every laker player said that "ball movement" was a problem, which is basically code for calling Kobe a ballhog.

Now, just going back to the main topic: I cant believe I forgot a more relevant "thrown together team" for this discussion- the Lakers themselves, and the highway robbery that was the Gasol trade. Boston at least gave up Al Jefferson (a guy that will probably go to several all star games) and Minnesota's own draft pick (likely to be in the lottery).

[AtLaS]

If the Celtics win, I think that would just prove that the East was better than their record indicated, and the West was overrated.

The Western playoffs wildly underachieved. Most of the series were not competitive at all. The Lakers cruised through the west and if they get beat by Boston I think that proves that Boston is a legit championship team. Plus Ray Allen played like garbage during the playoffs, if he shoots like he normally can, Boston doesn't go 7 games in any of their series.

[TruJerz]

that doesnt make sense..if you win, you win. For them top pull off 2 game 7's back to back is a tough thing to do period. They came up big when they needed to and beat the pistons on their homecourt to advance to the NBA Finals..sounds good to me. If the Celtics dont deserve it, then who does?? the teams that they beat??? lol give me a break with the hatred

[Plainview1981]

The quality of the average eastern conference game was rather poor this year as it has been for several years. Ray Allen is very close to being washed up. He might still play well sometimes, but his bad play and you factor in that he is nearly 33 years old.

[Plainview1981]

Like I said, it shows a lack of quality with the league as far as legit teams go. A team like Cleveland honestly shouldn't even make it out of the first round with as many journeymen and below average players that they have. They don't even have a legit second option.

Now their manufacturing drama like with the whole PP thing going to the locker room last night. My eyes were really rolling at that. If the league ever wants to have a good solid fan base again they need to pull away some useless teams like Charlotte, LAC, the Nets, and other teams so that better teams can be built.

As for the Celtics, if the "champs" can't even soundly beat two of the most poorly ran franchises in the league, that doesn't say good things about them.

People make a big deal about Gasol, but while he played well the first two series, he wasn't very good against SA, and wasn't very good last night. He has a clear lack of toughness and he doesn't get the big rebounds. He is more or less a taller version of Reef.

[Plainview1981]

I do admit that PP is my biggest beef with the Celtics. I used to like him as a player a few years ago, but I grew more hate for him during the first round this year and his fake drama makes me sick.

[Plainview1981]

Kobe is no MJ.

[dlpin]

and Doc is no Phil Jackson. How in the world can someone blow a 24 point lead without making any adjustments?