Horford and Smoove

[exodus]

Quote:

---

If he was no threat to score then how did he get 20 points?

Smith he 3 three pointers in game 3 or 4. Does that mean he is a legit 3 pt shooter?

[AtLaS]

I wish y'all would please stop arguing semantics about the EXACT context of what was said. We all got the point, no need to harp on one specific word that hardly means anything. If it does, make a statement without bashing, that way it doesn't lead to 60+ post dogfights.

I thought y'all were through doing this?

[exodus]

Quote:

---

I wish y'all would please stop arguing semantics about the EXACT context of what was said. We all got the point, no need to harp on one specific word that hardly means anything. If it does, make a statement without bashing, that way it doesn't lead to 60+ post dogfights.

I thought y'all were through doing this?

He decided to start up again.

Just out of curiosity do you think calling Horford timid with the ball is trashing him?

[crimedog]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I wish y'all would please stop arguing semantics about the EXACT context of what was said. We all got the point, no need to harp on one specific word that hardly means anything. If it does, make a statement without bashing, that way it doesn't lead to 60+ post dogfights.

I thought y'all were through doing this?

He decided to start up again.

Just out of curiosity do you think calling Horford timid with the ball is trashing him?

As much as saying Smith can make bad decisions.

The fact is that Horford is a center (or PF playing center, whatever) who shoots just at 50% even though he isn't taking many contested shots or getting man FTs.

I think that will change, I think Smith will become a smarter player, but thats just me. I see areas of improvement for most all of our players.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I wish y'all would please stop arguing semantics about the EXACT context of what was said. We all got the point, no need to harp on one specific word that hardly means anything. If it does, make a statement without bashing, that way it doesn't lead to 60+ post dogfights.

I thought y'all were through doing this?

He decided to start up again.

Just out of curiosity do you think calling Horford timid with the ball is trashing him?

As much as saying Smith can make bad decisions.

The fact is that Horford is a center (or PF playing center, whatever) who shoots just at 50% even though he isn't taking many contested shots or getting man FTs.

I think that will change, I think Smith will become a smarter player, but thats just me. I see areas of improvement for most all of our players.

Just don't mention what their problem areas are or you'll be trashing them.

[Zone034life]

Mentioning areas a player needs to improve isn't trashing them. Its kind of like when I say i'm dissapointed with Marvins game and don't believe he fits what this team needs right now. Some would call me a basher or a hater. You think Chillz will fit in best with a west coast team that can surround him with shooters and that doesn't make you a hater or basher.

Horford isn't above improving and needs to get better as does the rest of this Young squad.

[Iman]

I just don't see how anyone can not see that Horford is already one of the best bigmen in the game as just a rookie. In my mind about the only stat that solidly makes this debatable is why did our record only marginally improve when we added such a great player and had so few injuries. I'd blame that on JJ's slow start, losing many close games early, and mostly on Woodson.

10 and 10 doesn't look that good on paper but with our offense it's to be expected. Not taking an 18 footer when that's not part of the offense is good bb IQ, not being timid. I think Woodie pretty much wants JJ to be our offense, he wants Marvin to take 18 footers, and he wants Smoove to just play under control. Our centers, and Chillz just aren't part of the primary offense. Bibby was supposed to hit the outside shot when JJ was covered whereas Acie was expected to penetrate.

Horford is a slightly less explosive Karl Malone in my mind. Put him on Utah then or now and he'd nearly match Malone or Boozer's stats, and he'd make up the slight decrease with better efficiency and less mistakes. On our team with Woodson as coach, I look for 13 and 10 this year.

[Zone034life]

So you think Horfords game is flawless? He still must work on his post moves, footwork and mid range jump. He isn't at an all star level yet and should work hard to get there. I appreciate Big Al as much as anyone but to overlook his flaws is just being close minded. Every player needs to improve on this squad.

[crimedog]

Quote:

---

I just don't see how anyone can not see that Horford is already one of the best bigmen in the game as just a rookie. In my mind about the only stat that solidly makes this debatable is why did our record only marginally improve when we added such a great player and had so few injuries. I'd blame that on JJ's slow start, losing many close games early, and mostly on Woodson.

10 and 10 doesn't look that good on paper but with our offense it's to be expected. Not taking an 18 footer when that's not part of the offense is good bb IQ, not being timid. I think Woodie pretty much wants JJ to be our offense, he wants Marvin to take 18 footers, and he wants Smoove to just play under control. Our centers, and Chillz just aren't part of the primary offense. Bibby was supposed to hit the outside shot when JJ was covered whereas Acie was expected to penetrate.

Horford is a slightly less explosive Karl Malone in my mind. Put him on Utah then or now and he'd nearly match Malone or Boozer's stats, and he'd make up the slight decrease with better efficiency and less mistakes. On our team with Woodson as coach, I look for 13 and 10 this year.

You think he's score twice as much with better efficiency just by going to another team?

Karl Malone was ultra-aggressive from day 1. Carlos Boozer has a much more accurate jumper and can finish flawlessly with both hands.

Horford is great, he works the boards, has a great body, nice attitude on the court but when you say things like this, you lose credibility. Not even AnikinJoe or Traceman would agree with that.

[Iman]

If Smoove went to Utah we'd expect his stats to approach Boozer's. The board values Horford more than Smoove for our team. Somehow the stats just don't link with what we think Horford can do. I guess when I see him grab the rebound and then dribble up the court past smaller players I just don't think we have seen what Horford can do yet. He definitely needs to work on being aggressive, shooting, and finishing.

Malone couldn't shoot when he joined the league. I don't expect Horford to ever have Malone's jumper but I'm sure he'll improve. Everyone thought Utah way overpaid for Boozer. I'm not sure what his stats were prior to the move but I'm sure they were Horford like. I think someone is just a stathead if they can't see Horford improving to be nearly Boozer like on the right team? Of course he'll have to improve but why do some people think he won't?

[Admin]

Main Entry:

1 : lacking in courage or self-confidence [a timid person]

2 : lacking in boldness or determination [a timid policy]

[Iman]

Lol, I see what people are trying to say. Exodus did make me watch and he was right, Horford never did try to take slow centers off the dribble. He does frequently pass up open 18 footers. He does look a little mechanical at times.

Still, I guess others of us don't see it as timid, we see it more like deferring due to being a rookie and just trying to improve the team. We also remember him taking to Oden on a multi-option team with the championship on the line. We see his leadership skills and sometimes near taunting and know that he's got an aggressive side that he keeps under control.

If we traded JJ for Oden. Moved Horford to PF and told him it was his team. I don't think timid would be on anyone's mind.

[EazyRoc]

Horford will be just as good of a shooter as Carlos Boozer. Whether or not he surpasses or equals his offensive output depends on whether he improves his footwork and handles.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

If Smoove went to Utah we'd expect his stats to approach Boozer's. The board values Horford more than Smoove for our team. Somehow the stats just don't link with what we think Horford can do. I guess when I see him grab the rebound and then dribble up the court past smaller players I just don't think we have seen what Horford can do yet. He definitely needs to work on being aggressive, shooting, and finishing.

Malone couldn't shoot when he joined the league. I don't expect Horford to ever have Malone's jumper but I'm sure he'll improve. Everyone thought Utah way overpaid for Boozer. I'm not sure what his stats were prior to the move but I'm sure they were Horford like. I think someone is just a stathead if they can't see Horford improving to be nearly Boozer like on the right team?

Of course he'll have to improve but why do some people think he won't?

Nobody is saying he won't improve. But at the same time nobody knows how much he will improve.

He sure won't get anywhere near Boozer production if he is too scared to shoot when he gets the ball. In order to score you have to shoot. You aren't going to score standing around with the ball with your elbows sticking out.

Boozer averaged 15.5/11.4 in his second season with the Cavs shooting 52.3%.

[crimedog]

Quote:

---

Lol, I see what people are trying to say. Exodus did make me watch and he was right, Horford never did try to take slow centers off the dribble. He does frequently pass up open 18 footers. He does look a little mechanical at times.

Still, I guess others of us don't see it as timid, we see it more like deferring due to being a rookie and just trying to improve the team. We also remember him taking to Oden on a multi-option team with the championship on the line. We see his leadership skills and sometimes near taunting and know that he's got an aggressive side that he keeps under control.

If we traded JJ for Oden. Moved Horford to PF and told him it was his team. I don't think timid would be on anyone's mind.

If we traded JJ for Oden, chances are we'd tell Oden it was his team, you know?

Anyway, big ups for going back and looking.

There is a lot that both Horford and Smith can do to improve as players, the nice thing is that they are both driven and competitive so you can feel fairly confident both will put in the time.

[Iman]

Those sound like great target stats for Horford this year. That was a weak Cleveland team also I'd assume.

I'd luv to stats on how much Karl Malone's jumper improved. I'd guess his shooting improvement is pretty much unmatched in NBA history. I think he could barely even hit a free throw early on. Same with Chris Weber. Both did have better footwork than Horford seems to have.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Those sound like great target stats for Horford this year. That was a weak Cleveland team also I'd assume.

I'd luv to stats on how much Karl Malone's jumper improved. I'd guess his shooting improvement is pretty much unmatched in NBA history. I think he could barely even hit a free throw early on. Same with Chris Weber. Both did have better footwork than Horford seems to have.

Malone was a horrible free throw shooter his rookie year.

Interestingly enough Horford was a horrible foul shooter early in the season and then improved dramatically during the second half of the season. Now he just needs to get to the line more often.

[crimedog]

Quote:

---

Boozer averaged 15.5/11.4 in his second season with the Cavs shooting 52.3%.

His first season he average 10ppg on 54% but he was only playing 25minutes, if he were playing Al's minutes that would jump to around 13.

[Supporter]

The only excuses that i can make for Horford for why he is better than smith is:

1. He is playing out of postition while smoove plays in the best position suited for him

2. Al was the 4th or 5th option while smoove was the 2nd

3. Smoove has more NBA experience than horford

[crimedog]

Quote:

---

The only excuses that i can make for Horford for why he is better than smith is:

1. He is playing out of postition while smoove plays in the best position suited for him

2. Al was the 4th or 5th option while smoove was the 2nd

3. Smoove has more NBA experience than horford

1. Tell me, what advantages would Horford have at the 4 assuming we don't have a dominant low post center to draw doubles away from him? If Horford showed a real gift for post play, he'd still be guarded by centers unless he was next to an even bigger and better post player, otherwise he'd be like Boozer and get D'd up by Cs all day.

2. True, he also face less defensive pressure but still shot fairly low percent for a guy who isn't ever seeing a lot of traffic (look at what other guys who score what he does shoot - Chandler, Biedrins, Dalembert). He isn't good enough to be higher on the food chain yet.

3. He does, that is one of the reasons he better I'm sure. That being said, both guys are 22 with a lot of room for improvement.