Marvin Back In School @ Unc & Working Out With May

[Traceman]

Why are you not doing your GD job?!?

That is the MFing problem with MW. Pick up game practicing with Sean baby fat May is not going to improve your skill set, extend your range, or anything.

MW CHOSE to leave basketball early. His CHOICE dictated that he devote himself to remediate basketball work to make up for his failure to develop prior to his jump to the NBA. Offseason after offseason we learn that, as wonderful a person as he may be to have watch your pooch over the weekend, MW is a lousy professional! out of shape interviews to core strengthening to pick-up game offseasons should do nothing but convince people of MW meager desires to perform much less be good at his job.

W

How do you know what Marv's and May's workouts consist of? Did you read Sheedera's post in this thread? Sounds like they have some pretty darn good competition in Stackhouse's pro-am basketball league in current/former NBA players Stack, Sheed, Josh Howard, David West, May, Felton, PJ Tucker, Shammond Williams, Ronald Murray, David Noel, Ricky Clemons, Jawad Williams, Clint Deas, and Josh Powell.

In addition, saying that Marv chose to leave BASKETBALL early is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. He left SCHOOL early to pursue a basketball career. He has played and practiced FAR more basketball as an NBA player than he possibly could have during the same timeframe as a college player. Obviously, he would have been a better ROOKIE this year had he stayed in school all 4 years but he will be a better player this season as a 4th year NBA player than he would have been were this his rookie NBA season.

As for him being a "lousy professional," I'm sure EVERY GM in the NBA would DIE to have their young players have the professionalism of Marvin Williams. You call going back to college and working on your game all summer "unprofessional?" The guy is a class act in every sense of the word and he represents the franchise EXTREMELY well.

[Traceman]

Why is education more important than making 5.5 Million dollars per year with the possibility of making 10-12 Million per year?

Please explain that to me.

If his education was in finance or business or even legal systems, I might be somewhat on board. However, he's basically a hIstory major. How is that more important than making what we've discussed. Moreover, he has 90 Hours left!!!

Explain how this is more than a hobby!!

This post explains a lot to me on so many levels. It certainly shows how little you value education. In addition, you act as if this is an "either or" situation when it CLEARLY is not. Marvin CAN and WILL improve his game WHILE getting his college degree. He WILL get his $5.5M this year and he will likely get a nice contract next year. How much he gets next year remains to be seen but him taking college classes this summer certainly won't be the reason he doesn't get a big deal.

Getting his college degree will help Marvin the NBA player as well as Marvin the individual on so many levels. It will improve his ability to communicate and represent himself. Those are skills that can be applied to all aspects of life. It will improve his abilty to think and to communicate those thougths to others. It will instill in him a sense of accomplishment. It will certainly make others view him as more than "just" a basketball player.

Finally, once again, you have read something and misinterpreted what was actually said. Marvin does NOT have 90 hours left. He had 90 hours left when FIRST went back to UNC for summer classes. His CURRENT situation is as follows:

Meanwhile Williams, a rising sophomore when he was drafted second overall, is now a junior in academic standing. After taking Swahili during UNC's first summer session and finishing an independent study course over the coming months, he plans to have 71 credits completed by the time the fall semester begins. Students at North Carolina need at least 120 credits to graduate.

Bottom line, he will have 71 credits after this summer and he needs at least 120 to graduate. That is 49 not 90.

[thesheedera]

A few other players off the top of my head who spent summers in Chapel Hill working on their games, whether they were working towards graduation or not:

Michael Jordan - took classes

James Worthy - took classes

Jerry Stackhouse - took classes

Hubert Davis - probably not - graduated before NBA

George Lynch - same as Hubert

Eric Montross - same

Antawn Jamison - took classes

Sam Perkins - not sure

Brad Daugherty - not sure

JR Reid - took classes

Sheed - pretty sure no classes

...and dozens and dozens more. Many of these guys have brought friends/NBA teammates with them to add to the critical mass. Added to that are countless Duke alumni (that article mentioned Boozer and Dunleavy)and friends/teammates that live in or around the research triangle during the summer. Wake and NC State alumni too, although some of them may be sleeping as far away as 30-45 minutes.

Marvin and May are also spending some time participating in Stackhouse's summer pro-am basketball league, with other slackers such as current/former NBA players Stack, Sheed, Josh Howard, David West, May, Felton, PJ Tucker, Shammond Williams, Ronald Murray, David Noel, Ricky Clemons, Jawad Williams, Clint Deas, and Josh Powell.

The amatuers include about 50% of the current rosters from UNC and Duke, as well as some from Wake, NC State and other local programs, and even a few of the best high school prospects in the region.

While in Chapel Hill, former UNC players have access to such horrible basketball minds as Roy Williams and his staff, Dean Smith, and Bill Guthridge. Not to mention that alumni have complete access to the UNC strength and conditioning facilities and staff, which are probably better (and certainly better funded) than what the Hawks provide. Throughout the spring and summer, more unqualified basketball people are available to meet/talk/work with while they come in and out of town such as Larry Brown, Michael Jordan, George Karl, Mitch Kupchak, and Phil Ford.

The Research Triangle region is one of the world's great epicenters of the international basketball community. I'm willing to bet the only place that has as good or a better collection of talent, knowledge and experience during the offseason months is whatever spot that Team USA happens to be in at that moment.

Marvin is exactly where he should be. It's the place where he can best improve his basketball skills, physical condition, education, and prepare himself for his presnt and future in the NBA, as well as his future after basketball.

Again - this is only a partial list of guys who are either currently or have in the past spent their summers in the RTP working on playing/coaching basketball:

Michael Jordan, James Worthy, Jerry Stackhouse, Hubert Davis, George Lynch, Eric Montross, Antawn Jamison, Sam Perkins, Brad Daugherty, JR Reid, Sheed, Boozer, Dunleavy, Josh Howard, David West, Sean May, Felton, PJ Tucker, Shammond Williams, Ronald Murray, David Noel, Ricky Clemons, Jawad Williams, Clint Deas, Josh Powell, Roy Williams, Dean Smith, and Bill Guthridge, Larry Brown, Michael Jordan, George Karl, Mitch Kupchak, and Phil Ford...

And that's from the top of my head, the article this thread started, and Stackhouse's summer league rosters. That's probably not more than 5% of the successful basketball players/coaches who have spent their summers in the RTP (Chapel Hill, Raleigh, and Durham) and Winston Salem over the years.

I love how Walt and Diesel spin the idea of spending a summer in Chapel Hill into something not related to basketball. Chapel Hill IS BASKETBALL!!!!!!

World class facilities

World class competition (not referring just to Stack's summer league - that's a mishmash of both world class and lower level talent - there are regular games in dozens of gyms throughout the area in the summer, including daily games in Chapel Hill with former, current and future Heels as well as friends from other programs or NBA teams)

World class expertise to work with and learn from

UNC basketball is a family (as are many other programs of course). Guys return to Chapel Hill. They work together, they help each other get better, they look out for each other. Some work the camps, some are in school, some are just there to take advantage of the citical mass. But they're all WORKING. The competition can be fierce - there are scuffles and scraps - this ain't just some guys playing horse.

The pickup and summer league games are only part of the equation. These guys are putting in time eevry day to improve their games so they can make a living.

The best that ever played thought it was a good place to spend more than a few summers (and I saw him there many times as a kid, visiting family who lived there), so I see no reason why it wouldn't be a good place for Marvin too!

[crimedog]

I'm not the biggest Marv fan, I'd like to see him traded. I also know that a big reason this is a topic is because trace wanted to hear D/Walt take any opportunity to moan about Marv (I also like how they both allowed the suspense to build as most of the posts were just asking where they were).

Still though, this is ridiculous. No one, not Kobe, not Duncan, not even Jordan spent every minute of their offseason training. Marv is training with other pros, in a place where great pros have been known to do offseason training, while taking classes.

On a AA studies degree, I know an MD at Goldman Sachs who has a BA in AA studies so I wouldn't argue there is no money in it. There is money in anything if thats what you are looking for but hopefully Marv is taking that track because he believes it will give him more perspective and a greater understanding of where he came from - not sure how that makes him unprofessional.

In terms of Marv doing core training, pilates, yoga, whatever. There is no one in the league that needs that stuff more than Marv... probably no one in the history of the league. Maybe if he had better core strength he would be able to square up on the move instead of having to be standing perfectly still while catching the ball to hit his jumper.

[thesheedera]

I'm not the biggest Marv fan, I'd like to see him traded. I also know that a big reason this is a topic is because trace wanted to hear D/Walt take any opportunity to moan about Marv (I also like how they both allowed the suspense to build as most of the posts were just asking where they were).

Still though, this is ridiculous. No one, not Kobe, not Duncan, not even Jordan spent every minute of their offseason training. Marv is training with other pros, in a place where great pros have been known to do offseason training, while taking classes.

On a AA studies degree, I know an MD at Goldman Sachs who has a BA in AA studies so I wouldn't argue there is no money in it. There is money in anything if thats what you are looking for but hopefully Marv is taking that track because he believes it will give him more perspective and a greater understanding of where he came from - not sure how that makes him unprofessional.

In terms of Marv doing core training, pilates, yoga, whatever. There is no one in the league that needs that stuff more than Marv... probably no one in the history of the league. Maybe if he had better core strength he would be able to square up on the move instead of having to be standing perfectly still while catching the ball to hit his jumper.

You can always tell when the likes of Deisel and Walt realize their arguments/complaints are absurd.

It's not like these guys haven't been on the board ALL DAY LONG, they just don't have any other ways to spin their nonsense.

[DrReality]

the radio guys weren't too complimentary of marvin today. he took some hits while they talked about Chill.

[Chris18]

the radio guys weren't too complimentary of marvin today. he took some hits while they talked about Chill.

I thought they went too far with their criticism of Marvin today and took unnecessary jabs at him and his character.

[Diesel]

I thought they went too far with their criticism of Marvin today and took unnecessary jabs at him and his character.

Let me guess..

They said he was lazy and his focus was NOT on basketball?

I'm not saying Marvin should spend 100% of his time playing basketball. However, history has shown that Marvin is not dedicated to basketball...

I read a story about Kevin Durant. I don't like Durant at all. However, he's taking a class this summer... 3 hours. However, the article talked about how not being able to play in SL was killing him. How he wanted to get out and work out with the young guys. How he played one SL game after his coach told him not to play. How he is spending the rest of his time this summer playing with the Olympic Select team.

My point is that even though I can't stand Durant, I respect him because he has "the Love". I have never seen the love from Marvin. He's lax when it comes to basketball. It's almost like Basketball is not his first love and that he has no fire whatsoever about this game.

The fact that he's talking about taking classes in AA studies and saying "I have to think about after basketball"... tells me that he's not the competitor. How many times in his early career did you hear Jordan talk about after basketball? How about Smoove? My point is that when you have passion for the game, the game is what it's all about. Sorta like Farve. I heard Farve on the interview before he decided to come back. He said that he had the "Jones". He talked about wanting to be in training camp somewhere. Marvin seems to be waiting for a wake up call from somebody else.

Here's my prediction. Marvin won't force himself to play longer than 7 years.

[EazyRoc]

So, you problem with Marvin is that you believe that he does not love his job ? Is that all ?

Edited July 31, 2008 by EazyRoc

[DrReality]

Time for Marvin to lose his baby fat. Need to muscle up.

[Diesel]

So, you problem with Marvin is that you believe that he does not love his job ? Is that all ?

Well, my main problem with Marvin is that he's an underachiever. Him not having love for his job contributes to that. IN the meanwhile, I see guys who we passed on to take Marvin (like CP3 and Deron) and they are filled with passion. To me, Marvin is a waste. We've already poured so much into this guy and all we can say about him is he has a good jump shot... and he may be a good defender... unfortunately, we can't view or quantitate his defense. He's the highest pick this franchise has made and he continuous to have a vanilla game and in the offseason he's not even working out. Not really. Celebrity pick up games is not working out. Marvin needs to work out Acie Law style not baby Fat Sean May Style..

[EazyRoc]

Ok. So what would you consider satisfactory ? or what has Acie Law been doing that you know Marvin isn't ? Also, why do you have a problem with him playing against some great players ? What makes you think he's an underachiever ?

[Cwell]

Ok. So what would you consider satisfactory ? or what has Acie Law been doing that you know Marvin isn't ? Also, why do you have a problem with him playing against some great players ? What makes you think he's an underachiever ?

his on court play speaks for itself. Prolly not an underachiever because he was never that good. Overhyped maybe.

[GTfan44]

Well, my main problem with Marvin is that he's an underachiever. Him not having love for his job contributes to that. IN the meanwhile, I see guys who we passed on to take Marvin (like CP3 and Deron) and they are filled with passion. To me, Marvin is a waste. We've already poured so much into this guy and all we can say about him is he has a good jump shot... and he may be a good defender... unfortunately, we can't view or quantitate his defense. He's the highest pick this franchise has made and he continuous to have a vanilla game and in the offseason he's not even working out. Not really. Celebrity pick up games is not working out. Marvin needs to work out Acie Law style not baby Fat Sean May Style..

Why all the attacks on Diesel?

Dude is spot on.

Working out with a trash NBA player who was out all year (Sean May) and getting a useless degree (got nothing against that). He is the #2 pick from his class and especially with a key role player gone, he should be spending his whole day working out, watching tape, and working with someone like Jamison.

[EazyRoc]

his on court play speaks for itself. Prolly not an underachiever because he was never that good. Overhyped maybe.

I do agree that he is overhyped. He has gotten better since coming to the league, but will probably never live up to his draft hype.

[Chris18]

Let me guess..

They said he was lazy and his focus was NOT on basketball?

No, they were making it seem like Marvin is some scrub you pickup to fill out your roster, like Luke Jackson, and they continued to say how terrible he was without anything to back their argument up.

[EazyRoc]

Why all the attacks on Diesel?

Dude is spot on.

Working out with a trash NBA player who was out all year (Sean May) and getting a useless degree (got nothing against that). He is the #2 pick from his class and especially with a key role player gone, he should be spending his whole day working out, watching tape, and working with someone like Jamison.

You need to go back and re-read this thread.

[GTfan44]

No I don't.

I read it already.

Marvin makes good money. Maybe him getting the AA degree has some intrinsic value to him, but the guy isn't strong physically and wasn't impressive at all this past year.

If he was taking classes and working out with a basketball player who was actually relevant (like Antwawn Jamison), maybe I'd change my mind, but to work out with a scrub like Sean May and take classes (dude isn't even close to finishing his degree. 71/120 hours means he has at least 3 more years at this rate because he probably got about 30 his 1st year and he probably gets about 15 hours or so a summer) is not the way to go.

On the other hand, Josh Smith worked out with Olajuwon and Calvin Murphy last summer.

While Smoove's intellectual prowess isn't the highest-regarded, to work with players of that caliber is a manifestation of his ambition and strive to become better. Even though I didn't see a Dream Shake or good shooting at all, at least Smoove had the initiative to go out and do this

[EazyRoc]

If you read it, the re-read thesheedara's posts.

[Diesel]

You need to go back and re-read this thread.

EazyRoc...

Are you still confused because I said rich people don't need formal educations in AA studies?

If Marvin get his next contract right, he could buy his own library.

If Marvin get his next contract right, he could go to Africa next offseason and spend 3 weeks in the muthaland.

If Marvin get his next contract right, he could go and have a personal conversation with Alex Haley.

If Marvin get his next contract right, he could buy the original manuscripts for any AA masterpiece ever made.

Ask Bill Gates or Paul Allen if they missed out by not finishing their HARVARD education?

You see they found out the one secret that you don't know yet....

A degree is just an opportunity.

In and of itself it means that you can follow directions.

You believe that Marvin is fulfilling some great legacy by finishing his degree?

His legacy was made when he choose to leave UNC to enter the NBA!

On that day, he became a Multimillionaire.

He went from a seeker to a provider.

Once you become a provider, you don't have to follow the same rules as seekers... You have to maintain.

Marvin talks about AA studies as if it's going to sustain him after basketball.

Let's say that Marvin cracks his knee tomorrow and can't play basketball any longer.

He retires from the NBA with about 18 Million dollars (8 Million + 10 Million insurance payoff).

He can still finish his degree.

He finishes his degree in AA studies..

He gets a job in the field.

Do you know how ludicrous it will look for him to go out and slave and write papers and make at most 60k a year?

let me see:

18,060,000. = Yr 1.

18,120,000. = Yr 2.

18,180,000 = Yr 3.

I'm sure that there's a sense of accomplishment that Marvin will get from finishing UNC.

However, that sense of accomplishment will be the same weather he finishes 2011 or 2022...

A few years ago, Vince Carter almost missed a playoff game because he wanted to go to his college graduation. At that time, I was in VC's corner because you only graduate with your first degree once... and he was guaranteed to make the playoffs.

However, Marvin has 90 more Hours to go....

That's about 3.5 More years if you were a fulltime student.

Marvin is hobbying.