I hate to mention this another year, but.....

[High5]

He was with Larry Brown! He has to be good defensively! :rolls eyes:

Heh, I guess so. Like I said earlier, he may been a great assistant under Larry, but an assistant and a head coach are two entirely different things. Plus the Pistons were all vets that probably had no use for him.

[EazyRoc]

The main person who used to get caught up in screens (therefore creating major mismatches) is now gone. Just like there are some games when one player beats the Hawks with easy, high percentage shots (see Ron Artest), there are just as many (or more) games when the Hawks have forced teams to shoot jumpshots, rotated well, and boxed out. One thing I do agree with is the fact that Woodson is not good with making in-game adjustments, but he has on many occassions motivated these guys to give their best efforts on defense even when they are down 12-15 points (or more). I'm not comparing Mike Woodson to a Hall of Fame coach (defensively, that is), but to say he's not a good defensive coach, after half of the championship Pistons' roster said otherwise isn't accurate. Marvin Williams and Josh Smith have both improved on the defensive end, and they both started boxing out more intently at towards the end of the season. Maybe they made the commitment themselves or maybe coach got in their ear ? I also know Joe's 20 point fourth quarter would have meant absolutely nothing if we didn't play such great defense. Like I said, maybe the players made the commitment themselves or maybe the "defensive mastermind" of the championship Pistons got on their backs about it ? Who knows..

[A-town Hawks]

He was with Larry Brown! He has to be good defensively! :rolls eyes:

Cmon Swish, what are you a high school student? Real kidish to rephrase what I said to make it look ignornant. What I said was that after being a main assistant for 2 years under Larry Brown, arguable the best defensive coach in the league, Woody must have picked up SOME defensive knowledge. I never said he is good defensively, I just stated that he must have some foundation after his Detroit stint. So keep the little kid games to yourself, buddy.

[Swatguy]

Heh, I guess so. Like I said earlier, he may been a great assistant under Larry, but an assistant and a head coach are two entirely different things. Plus the Pistons were all vets that probably had no use for him.

It is interesting as how the Pistons have remarkedly been out coached the last two playoffs. Yet you say"the Pistons were all vets that probably had no use for him" with regard to Woody having coached in their championship run. Still many consider the twice failed and fired Flip Sanders is "a good coach".

[High5]

"the "defensive mastermind" of the championship Pistons"

"It is interesting as how the Pistons have remarkedly been out coached the last two playoffs."

So you're giving the credit to Woodson and not Larry Brown? Yeah...ok.

"but he has on many occassions motivated these guys to give their best efforts on defense even when they are down 12-15 points"

How would you possibly know this?

[EazyRoc]

I don't, but can you prove otherwise ? We could play that game all day.

Also, Larry Brown has a ring for their win just like Mike Woodson. The only reason I didn't mention Larry is because Mike Woodson is the subject of our conversation. I also believe the media used "defensive mastermind" to describe Woodson when the Hawks first hired. I could be wrong about thate, but I'm pretty sure that's who originally called Woodson a "defensive mastermind".

Edited August 23, 2008 by EazyRoc

[High5]

Dude, you got nothing. I could just as easily say the players played bad defense just to spite Woodson. You can't make an argument with something like that.

[EazyRoc]

I've got much more than you. This is no courtroom, High5. All you managed to come with is your opinion. Although I don't have exact quotes, I have based what I have seen not only off of what I've watched in games, but what the media and NBA players have said about him. So, really. I have nothing, but you've got less than nothing, whatever that is.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

It doesn't matter if Woody know a couple of good defensive strategy or not if he can't manage a game. He is not NBA head coach material. You have to get a perfect bench for him to utilize them effectively since he doesn't have to actually work and see who's going to be effective at certain times.

[EazyRoc]

It doesn't matter if Woody know a couple of good defensive strategy or not if he can't manage a game. He is not NBA head coach material. You have to get a perfect bench for him to utilize them effectively since he doesn't have to actually work and see who's going to be effective at certain times.

He's head coach material, becuase he still has a job. He was a below average coach all season, but at least an average coach in the playoffs. I know it's been like 3 or 4 seasons now, but I really want to see how he'll do this season.

[EazyRoc]

Especially for you, High5:

ATLANTA, GA (July 8, 2004) ----- The Atlanta Hawks have named Mike Woodson as the team's new head coach, it was announced today by General Manager Billy Knight. Woodson, who becomes Atlanta's tenth head coach since the franchise moved to the Atlanta area in 1968, spent this past season as an assistant on the staff of the World Champion Detroit Pistons. As per club policy, terms of the deal were not released.

"I am very excited about hiring Mike as our new head coach," said Knight. "He has paid his dues and is very deserving of this opportunity. Mike has all of the qualities I was looking for in a head coach as we went through this process. He possesses a tremendous work ethic and he's an excellent motivator, something that is very important to our franchise and ownership group as we move forward. As a former player who has worked tirelessly as an assistant for several years, learning from a couple of Hall of Fame coaches along the way, Mike will be able to handle the transition of his new position and bring a passion of winning to the Hawks.

"Fans will see the same level of intensity he displayed on the court as an opponent of mine, a teammate of mine and as an assistant coach. We'll be well prepared and compete hard every night on both ends of the floor as he takes our team to another level. Mike will represent our organization very well and I look forward to working with him."

The top assistant on Larry Brown's Pistons staff, the 46-year-old Woodson has 19 years of NBA experience as a player and coach, and served three-of-the-last nine seasons as an assistant under Brown in both Philadelphia (2001-03) and Detroit. He also worked as an assistant coach with the Cleveland Cavaliers (1999-01) and the Milwaukee Bucks (1996-99).

"As many assistant coaches around the league would tell you, we all strive to reach this level," said Woodson. "Becoming a head coach in the NBA has been a goal of mine for many years and I've patiently waited for an opportunity like this one. I am very appreciative of the support I've received thus far from Billy and the new ownership group and while there's a lot of work to do, I am in this for the long haul.

"Working with Coach Brown taught me a great deal about what is necessary to accomplish success in this league, and winning the championship was a tremendous achievement for all of us. With the new management team in place in Atlanta, I'm ecstatic about the challenge of bringing this program back to a competitive level. While understanding there's a lot of work to do and it is not going to happen overnight, if we can put the necessary pieces around the young kids we've drafted, we will build this product into a winning team."

One of the chief architects behind the Pistons' suffocating defensive effort during the 2003-04 regular season and the playoffs, Detroit held the opposition to 84.3 points per game this past year, which equaled the league's best total defensively (along with San Antonio).

In addition, the Pistons' point differential of +5.84 was the second-best in the NBA and they limited opponents to 41.4 field goal shooting, the league's third-best performance. During their 23 postseason games, Detroit intensified their efforts defensively, holding teams to 80.7 ppg and 39.2 FG shooting, and in the five-game Finals series against Los Angeles, the Pistons kept the Lakers more than 16 points under their regular season average and hounded them into shooting 41 percent from the floor.

"The Atlanta Spirit ownership group is extremely excited to welcome Mike to our family," said Spirit owner Michael Gearon, Jr. "Billy has worked extremely hard during this process to bring the most qualified and talented person to our team, and we feel we have that in Mike. He brings championship experience to the Hawks and we will all learn from him. As a former player, he knows how to get the players' respect and assist them in their development. Mike's professionalism and the knowledge he has gained from coaches like Bob Knight and Larry Brown will prove to be invaluable as we continue to instill a winning attitude within our community."

The 11-year veteran and 6-5 guard played for seven teams in the NBA after he was selected in the first round of the 1980 Draft by the New York Knicks with the 12th overall pick. In 786 career games, Woodson averaged 14.0 points (10,981 career points), 2.3 rebounds and 2.3 assists in 25.5 minutes of action, enjoying his best campaign in 1982-83 when he played for the then-Kansas City Kings and posted 18.2 points per game. Woodson and Knight were teammates the following year and helped the Kings to a third-place finish in the Midwest Division (38-44) and a first round playoff berth against the LA Lakers.

In addition to the Knicks and Kings (both in Kansas City and Sacramento), Woodson also played with New Jersey, the Los Angeles Clippers, Houston and Cleveland, before retiring from the game in 1991. His teams advanced to the playoffs five times, where he averaged 12.2 ppg, 2.6 apg and 2.3 rpg.

Drafted out of Indiana University, Woodson, in his junior season, helped lead the Hoosiers to the 1979 National Invitation Tournament (NIT) championship with a 53-52 victory over conference foe Purdue and was named to the All-Tourney team.

During the summer of that year, he played for Bob Knight and captained the United States team that participated in the Pan Am Games, joining teammates Isiah Thomas and Ray Tolbert in winning the gold medal.

A two-time All-American (1979 and 1980) and four-year letterman, Woodson suffered a herniated disc in his back after five games (and a No.1 ranking) into his senior campaign and had to undergo surgery. Upon losing Woodson, Indiana went 7-5 in the Big Ten, but once he returned, IU finished the conference season at 6-0 and captured the Big Ten title. Despite the limited action, Woodson took home the league's 1980 MVP award.

The fifth-leading scorer in IU history with 2,061 points, Woodson averaged 19.8 points and 5.6 rebounds in 104 games with the Hoosiers. He graduated with a degree in physical education.

Woodson, born March 24, 1958 in Indianapolis, Indiana, attended Broad Ripple High in Indianapolis. He and his wife Terri have two daughters, Alexis and Mariah.

***

Mike Woodson

At least I have something. You have provided absolutely nothing to substantiate your claims.

Edited August 23, 2008 by EazyRoc

[DJlaysitup]

So, you think there's another coach out there that could get them to play D more consistently ? I don't think so. I t's on the players to make that commitment. ...

Bigtime coaches play hardball. You don't want to play D - sit over there fella. You lose minutes you lose stats...and you lose money on your next contract....if you get one. :Nail Biting:

[EazyRoc]

That's true. Woodson didn't (or doesn't currently have) the job security to do that. He had his chance to do so when the Hawks were really horrible. He blew it. Now, it's completely on the players to make the commitment. You can't sit Josh Smith out when he decides he wants to let his man by, so he can block their shot from behind. You can't sit Bibby because he's out there playing lazy D. Also, Woodson is no big time coach.

[DJlaysitup]

I believe that with all of the new players coming to the Hawks, more pressure is on Woodson. Does he know how to integrate all the new talent? I think he was just figuring out how to use what he had the past two years.

Let's get real here OG - what new talent? A few older dudes that combined will not get close to the player we lost to Greece. Evans has no where near the "game impact" talent of Josh Childress - simple fact. The other guys are two-time losers - looking for a spot before going to Europe. Othella may be the lucky F/A though...still....undersized Rook....could be a Gomes-type player...every squirrel finds a nut now and then.

[A-town Hawks]

He's head coach material, becuase he still has a job. He was a below average coach all season, but at least an average coach in the playoffs. I know it's been like 3 or 4 seasons now, but I really want to see how he'll do this season.

So basically your saying that Woody is NBA head coach material because he was a part of the Detroit championship run and he (supposedly) is a good defensive coach (really only in your eyes and some random media report). Thats definetly not enough to support your agument even if it was and he is a "good defensive coach" thats still not NBA head coach material, you have to have the whole package as well as command a certain level of respect from your players which he does not (and you cant even argue that). This is the NBA where people make millions of dollars to put a winning product on the floor, Woody can take his little "good defense" to a AAU where im sure he can maybe string together a few wins.

I give Woody NO credit for us making the playoffs, when you had the roster we had last year the 8th seed in a weak eastern conference is not a accomplishment. And I think our constant losing patterns over the last decade or so has blinded some people's expectations.

[Swish]

Cmon Swish, what are you a high school student? Real kidish to rephrase what I said to make it look ignornant. What I said was that after being a main assistant for 2 years under Larry Brown, arguable the best defensive coach in the league, Woody must have picked up SOME defensive knowledge. I never said he is good defensively, I just stated that he must have some foundation after his Detroit stint. So keep the little kid games to yourself, buddy.

How old I am shouldn't exactly matter; there are some college students/young adults that are way more mature than certain adults I know, so thats irrelevant.

Kidish? Is that like Yiddish, only not?

I was making my own point, I was certainly not mooching off of yours dude.

My sarcastic point was to emphasize that just because he tutored under LB obviously does NOT have any bearing on his defensive prowess.

*runs off to play more little kid games*

:snowballfight:

[Lascar78]

I just wanted to share the most amazing statement I've ever heard. My ticket rep called again to see if we would renew our season tickets. I said no and told him there were a number of reasons but the biggest one was that they re-signed Woodson. He asked why and I told him that for instance I haven't seen any offensive system for 4 years and I am sick and tired of watching Joe Johnson isolations down the stretch. He said " What?! Woodson is known as an offensive genius! You know those plays they run from out of bounds? He actually draws those up!" At this point blood started pouring out of my ears, my brain exploded and I hung up.

[Swish]

Holy crap. Thats disgusting. You should post that in an original thread. My gosh.

You should've said..."oh, you mean those plays where they inbound to Joe and then ISO?"

Offensive genius my :ass:

Hope you don't kill over from loss of blood.

[Swatguy]

I give Woody NO credit for us making the playoffs, when you had the roster we had last year the 8th seed in a weak eastern conference is not a accomplishment. And I think our constant losing patterns over the last decade or so has blinded some people's expectations.

Your expectations with regard of the talent level on last seasons roster were unrealistic. Woody has not had a full compliment in Atlanta. People continue to point at the won-lost records of the past 4 years without understanding the fact that the roster has been incomplete.

Good teams have starter quality guys on the bench, we had one.

Furthermore, There was no way to make the playoffs with Acie and anyone other than Zaza and Chillz getting minutes. Acie was killing us on the court.

[EazyRoc]

So basically your saying that Woody is NBA head coach material because he was a part of the Detroit championship run and he (supposedly) is a good defensive coach (really only in your eyes and some random media report). Thats definetly not enough to support your agument even if it was and he is a "good defensive coach" thats still not NBA head coach material, you have to have the whole package as well as command a certain level of respect from your players which he does not (and you cant even argue that). This is the NBA where people make millions of dollars to put a winning product on the floor, Woody can take his little "good defense" to a AAU where im sure he can maybe string together a few wins.

I give Woody NO credit for us making the playoffs, when you had the roster we had last year the 8th seed in a weak eastern conference is not a accomplishment. And I think our constant losing patterns over the last decade or so has blinded some people's expectations.

:lol6:

Reading is fundamental!

I said Woodson is head coach material because he still has a job.

Once again, I wish some of you people would read a f'in post, before going off on some inaccurate rant.