I hate to mention this another year, but.....

[High5]

I've got much more than you. This is no courtroom, High5. All you managed to come with is your opinion. Although I don't have exact quotes, I have based what I have seen not only off of what I've watched in games, but what the media and NBA players have said about him. So, really. I have nothing, but you've got less than nothing, whatever that is.

All you have is a quote from 4 years ago that you got off of the Hawks website. You must be new to sports. Obviously the team and his friends are going to say everything nice they can say about him. I didn't read anywhere in that article where it said he didn't believe in offensive plays.

Even though I disagree, let's say Woodson actually had a lot to do with the Pistons defense. Who cares? He hasn't done a thing with the Hawks. You look at lot better as a defensive coach when you have guys like Ben Wallace (4 time DPOY before and after Woodson), Rasheed Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Chauncey Billups, Tayshaun Prince, etc. All of these guys are good (or great) defenders without Woodson. Even their back-up PG Hunter was a stud defensively. If you can only be an effective coach when you have the best team then you aren't worth a whole lot to the other 29 teams.

I have provided two specific (and extremely important) examples of his coaching, I have records to back me up and the vast majority of the fans agree Woodson sucks. All you can say is that Woodson motivated them to not be bad defensively on occasion...If you got something factual or have an opinion that is based on actual basketball please let me know. I like the discussion, but but quoting 4 year old articles from Hawks.com and saying Woodson motivated Smith to block a shot is retarded.

[DrReality]

Don't know if you guys ever heard of a man named Demming. He has this idea about the systems that people work in and says that even people who are competent and good at what they do are not that effective in systems (organizations) that are not healthy or functional. So what this means is that Woody has been in a system that is dysfunctional, see ASG lawsuit, and thus it is hard to judge him on his own merit.

But that begs the question of how much did BK contribute to that . . . . how dysfunctional was he in the whole mess? That's hard to tell, but as Sund takes over we will get indications. But the bottom line is that BK can no longer be blamed, it will now rest on Woody's shoulders

[High5]

Obviously I don't expect Woodson to lead this team to 50+ wins, but you can't blame the organization for him being completely clueless during a game. You don't have to have a perfect environment with a great team to make good coaching decisions.

[EazyRoc]

All you have is a quote from 4 years ago that you got off of the Hawks website. You must be new to sports. Obviously the team and his friends are going to say everything nice they can say about him. I didn't read anywhere in that article where it said he didn't believe in offensive plays.

Even though I disagree, let's say Woodson actually had a lot to do with the Pistons defense. Who cares? He hasn't done a thing with the Hawks. You look at lot better as a defensive coach when you have guys like Ben Wallace (4 time DPOY before and after Woodson), Rasheed Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Chauncey Billups, Tayshaun Prince, etc. All of these guys are good (or great) defenders without Woodson. Even their back-up PG Hunter was a stud defensively. If you can only be an effective coach when you have the best team then you aren't worth a whole lot to the other 29 teams.

I have provided two specific (and extremely important) examples of his coaching, I have records to back me up and the vast majority of the fans agree Woodson sucks. All you can say is that Woodson motivated them to not be bad defensively on occasion...If you got something factual or have an opinion that is based on actual basketball please let me know. I like the discussion, but but quoting 4 year old articles from Hawks.com and saying Woodson motivated Smith to block a shot is retarded.

So you are saying Mike Woodson has become worse as a defensive-minded coach n the last 4 years ? Whatever.

I have provided factual information, and two counters to your "specific" examples. I also have record to back me up. All you have is the handful of games when the Hawks defense got thrashed. How can you honestly try to pass your opinion off as fact, just because the board voted on something that doesn't relate to how Mike Woodson's performance as a defensive coach. Josh Smith has improved tremendously from a raw athlete. He has nights when he can play good post defense. He boxes out much more than in previous seasons. But I never said Woodson motivated smith to block a shot ? You just made that up. However, other than shotblocking Josh Smith has improved all around defensively, and I think Woodson played a part in his progression. Marvin has become a better defender and he consistently boxes out more as well. Joe Johnson has said that Mike Woodson and his staff have been real helpful, and he wants to win just as much as anyone. So I don't think he would endorse a coach that he thinks could be holding them back.

[DJlaysitup]

Woodson is known as an offensive genius! You know those plays they run from out of bounds? He actually draws those up!"

LOL Las...remember all those inbounds passes where hardly anybody moved and Chillz threw the ball away late in games...it was comical.

[DJlaysitup]

Don't know if you guys ever heard of a man named Demming. He has this idea about the systems that people work in and says that even people who are competent and good at what they do are not that effective in systems (organizations) that are not healthy or functional. So what this means is that Woody has been in a system that is dysfunctional, see ASG lawsuit, and thus it is hard to judge him on his own merit.

But that begs the question of how much did BK contribute to that . . . . how dysfunctional was he in the whole mess? That's hard to tell, but as Sund takes over we will get indications. But the bottom line is that BK can no longer be blamed, it will now rest on Woody's shoulders

I remember the "Demming method" and it was largely correct. One thing you have to remember though is...just becasuse you suck in a bad system...doesn't mean you will do well in a good system...some people just plainly suck. :kickcan:

[High5]

Eazy, you clearly haven't been following along very well. If you aren't going to actually read and understand my posts then I'm not going to bother. I see you're still pulling stuff out of thin air, though.

[EazyRoc]

Whatever you say.

You are dead wrong, and realize you have nothing to help you argument, whatever it was. You were making stuff up, and I called you on it. You say I'm pulling stuff out of thin air, but don't care to quote it. You are really full of s***.

[thesheedera]

I don't have much confidence in Woodson, but I voted "yes" because I don't think getting to the 2nd round of the playoffs is much of a reach or this team.

This roster has been pretty stable, and we'll have the benefit of Bibby playing from the beginning of the season, Law with a year under his belt, and the possibility of help from Speedy too.

Marvin, Smith and Horford have another year of experience and an offseason under their belts and JJ still has several prime years to go.

Losing Childress hurts, but the roster additions and my assumed improvements noted above will more than make up for his departure.

Last year we were a win away from the 2nd round, and as an 8 seed.

I don't EXPECT to make it to the 2nd round, but it is possible, in spite of who our coach is.

Best case scenario: 5 or 6 seed and a trip to the 2nd round.

Worst case: we finish right at or below .500 and miss the 8 seed in a new and improved eastern conference.

My expectation is somewhere in the middle - a few games over .500 and another decent showing (6 or 7 games) as a 7 or 8 seed.

I want an experienced winning coach asap for this team, but I have no confidence in the ASG making it happen any tme soon.

[atlhawks321]

has avery johnson signed with a team yet

[OGRat]

Let's get real here OG - what new talent? A few older dudes that combined will not get close to the player we lost to Greece. Evans has no where near the "game impact" talent of Josh Childress - simple fact. The other guys are two-time losers - looking for a spot before going to Europe. Othella may be the lucky F/A though...still....undersized Rook....could be a Gomes-type player...every squirrel finds a nut now and then.

My point was that he has to develop a new rotation. The starters can't play 48 minutes. Somebody is going to have to come off the bench.

[Swatguy]

has avery johnson signed with a team yet

Avery is getting the balance of his Mav contract, why would he void those millions. I imagine he will be working with a mic for a couple years.