7 of the top 10 current threads are about Woodson

[gsuteke]

It seems like everyone wants to b*tch about Woodson. I agree the Hawks look bad on the offensive side of the floor in the halfcourt. However, is that a reflection on Woodson or the talent on the team?

The Hawks had no PG before they traded for an injured Mike Bibby who SAC fans warned us about was all about Good Bibby and Bad Bibby.

Acie Law was more of a "I'm going to take the game over offensively in the 4th quarter" as opposed to a true PG.

We've held a Roster spot for Slow-Poke Claxton the last few years.

BK took the BPA in Marvin Williams but he passed on two HOF PGs.

Our Center is a 6'10" out of place PF who didn't even play C on his college team.

Our PF is a SF without SF skills away from the basket - to complicate issues he has very little back to the basket skills offensively.

I'm the one that added "Woodson you're on the clock" to gamethreads when I used to do them regularly.

I just don't think Woodson has the talent to compete for an NBA Championship which is what this board expects right now.

How do I know that?

The Hawks are currently holding down the 4 seed in the East and 7 out of 10 threads are bitching about Woodson.

I guess that #4 isn't good enough. I don't see better with the talent though in 2009.

[AtLaS]

It seems like everyone wants to b*tch about Woodson. I agree the Hawks look bad on the offensive side of the floor in the halfcourt. However, is that a reflection on Woodson or the talent on the team?

The Hawks had no PG before they traded for an injured Mike Bibby who SAC fans warned us about was all about Good Bibby and Bad Bibby.

Acie Law was more of a "I'm going to take the game over offensively in the 4th quarter" as opposed to a true PG.

We've held a Roster spot for Slow-Poke Claxton the last few years.

BK took the BPA in Marvin Williams but he passed on two HOF PGs.

Our Center is a 6'10" out of place PF who didn't even play C on his college team.

Our PF is a SF without SF skills away from the basket - to complicate issues he has very little back to the basket skills offensively.

I'm the one that added "Woodson you're on the clock" to gamethreads when I used to do them regularly.

I just don't think Woodson has the talent to compete for an NBA Championship which is what this board expects right now.

How do I know that?

The Hawks are currently holding down the 4 seed in the East and 7 out of 10 threads are bitching about Woodson.

I guess that #4 isn't good enough. I don't see better with the talent though in 2009.

Record isn't the issue. I don't think we are better than Cleveland, Boston, or Orlando either. The problem is the little things that a coach is supposed to do and Woodson doesn't. The biggest example being Woody's quote saying "We aren't going to tell Smith to stop shooting threes".

We know BK screwed up this team. Regardless, you just named tons of the flaws of our roster while not mentioning all of our strengths. I could make a similar writeup of ANY team in the league and list a ton of their flaws and they wouldn't look so great either. Regardless, you don't just look at your record and team makeup and say "Well this is where we should be" to determine if a coach is doing a good job or not. Because it's obvious if you truly pay attention. And, IMO we should definitely be better than our current 23-16 record.

[gsuteke]

Record isn't the issue. I don't think we are better than Cleveland, Boston, or Orlando either. The problem is the little things that a coach is supposed to do and Woodson doesn't. The biggest example being Woody's quote saying "We aren't going to tell Smith to stop shooting threes".

We know BK screwed up this team. Regardless, you just named tons of the flaws of our roster while not mentioning all of our strengths. I could make a similar writeup of ANY team in the league and list a ton of their flaws and they wouldn't look so great either. Regardless, you don't just look at your record and team makeup and say "Well this is where we should be" to determine if a coach is doing a good job or not. Because it's obvious if you truly pay attention. And, IMO we should definitely be better than our current 23-16 record.

Atlas I guess the question I'd pose to you is this..

Are the Hawks underachieving?

My guess is our answer will be

Wins and losses .... no

Play on the Court.... yes

I've hated Woodson for years but in the here and now I don't see us as better than Orlando, Boston, or Cleveland.

In the end you're only as good as your talent.

Phil Jackson or Pat Reilly could be the Coach of this team and they'd still be the 4th best team in East.

[AtLaS]

Are the Hawks underachieving?

My guess is our answer will be

Wins and losses .... no

Play on the Court.... yes

So, if our play on the court is not up to par, than how are we not underachieving?

I've hated Woodson for years but in the here and now I don't see us as better than Orlando, Boston, or Cleveland.

In the end you're only as good as your talent.

Of course you are. That doesn't mean we aren't better than 23-16 and I think we are. We are one of the few teams in the NBA who has a solid player at all five starting positions. We have a top 3 backcourt in the NBA and we are a top 3pt shooting team in the NBA. I'm not saying we're as good as the top teams in the East that are around 33-9 but we should definitely be better than 23-16.

[Wretch]

Well...here's my thing. We can throw the issue of talent out of the window - this team can win. These players have shown us they can hit big shots, they can defend, they can execute. They can dominate and they can scrap. From all of the huge wins last season, to the series with Boston, to the strong showing (for the most part) thusfar. I'm actually happy with where we are. We could just be better and we do have the talent to be better.

Woodson is OK, but there are so many things wrong with the way he coaches and the way he allows these guys to play. Honestly, it's like that pair of shoes that have seen enough mileage - at some point, they have to go. Mike Woodson has seen more tenure here than some very good head coaches. Are we just going to keep him indefinitely? And don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating change for the sake of change. It's just at some point we are going to need a better coach.

I have not been very fond of Woodson for quite some time. Though, I don't think canning him right now is the answer. IMO, this should be his final season and we should be bringing in a fresh voice, with a bit more experience, and a better gameplan.

(PS - fire Mike Woodson...)

[h2t]

I agree with everything Atlas said.

Although I think our record is pretty close to what is should be..maybe 2 wins off. imo Woody will have a more negative impact on our second half record...when his lack of depth development comes back to bite us...in addition to his usual game time ineptitude.

[Diesel]

Atlas I guess the question I'd pose to you is this..

Are the Hawks underachieving?

My guess is our answer will be

Wins and losses .... no

Play on the Court.... yes

I've hated Woodson for years but in the here and now I don't see us as better than Orlando, Boston, or Cleveland.

In the end you're only as good as your talent.

Phil Jackson or Pat Reilly could be the Coach of this team and they'd still be the 4th best team in East.

I think you have to reconsider that a little. We have beaten teams that we're supposed to beat. However, I would say that we have the talent to beat some of the teams that we've lost to. Easily GS, Phoenix comes to mind. The difference is coaching. We've lost a lot of close games. For the most part you can blame FTs... however, Woody has got to do a better job of getting this team prepared... that means he has to develop players. Now, you're right... Phil Jackson and Pat Riley would probably be at the same place we are now... but neither one of those guys could develop players either. Not well.

However, what happens if you give this team a guy like Avery Johnson. A guy who knows what to do and who takes no crap? In Dallas he had a team with very few natural defensive players. He made it to the championship game with that. IF you gave him this young, athletic, naturally defensive Hawks team, I think we'd be scary.

[BusBoyIsBack]

WTF is there to complain about? We are on pace for a 50 win season.

We are the 5th youngest team in the league with the 4th best reccord in the conference

Edited January 21, 2009 by BusBoyIsBack

[Admin]

WTF is there to complain about? We are on pace for a 50 win season.

We are the 5th youngest team in the league with the 4th best reccord in the conference

Duh, because we're not the 96 Bulls! Anything less is unacceptable around here so get with the program BusBoy!

[crimedog]

Duh, because we're not the 96 Bulls! Anything less is unacceptable around here so get with the program BusBoy!

Yeah, I think people need to sit back and look at the big picture. This team is better than its been in a decade. Don't go nuts during a slump, especially when you look at the mega-slump Joe has been in since the new year.

I'm very happy with where we are right now and I think all the "we need a change right now" nonsense is just that, nonsense. I also think that, while Josh is still obviously recovering his confidence (as evidenced by his tentativeness in blocking shots), he's greatly benifitted from Al being out as it has really solidified his role. Especially on offense, he's looking as comfortable as I've ever seen him down low and he's driving a lot more than he was earlier in the season.

[Admin]

Yeah, I think people need to sit back and look at the big picture. This team is better than its been in a decade. Don't go nuts during a slump, especially when you look at the mega-slump Joe has been in since the new year.

I'm very happy with where we are right now and I think all the "we need a change right now" nonsense is just that, nonsense. I also think that, while Josh is still obviously recovering his confidence (as evidenced by his tentativeness in blocking shots), he's greatly benifitted from Al being out as it has really solidified his role. Especially on offense, he's looking as comfortable as I've ever seen him down low and he's driving a lot more than he was earlier in the season.

I think the "don't go nuts" also needs to be said for winning streaks. We've had two 6 game winning streaks and I think it has made us think we're better than we are and then we've had a couple of losing streaks that have made us think we're worse than we are. The truth is that we're somewhere in the middle. While I definitely think we could have and perhaps should have won a few more games than we have it's certainly plausible that we could have lost a few more games than we have. I'm just happy that for the first time in forever we appear to be a legit playoff team and I expect us to win more often than not.

Smith has definitely been playing very well lately without Al and if memory serves Horford also played well without Smith. I can only imagine how good our team would be if they both played very well together and Marvin was playing like he did the first 10 games.

[Traceman]

I think you have to reconsider that a little. We have beaten teams that we're supposed to beat. However, I would say that we have the talent to beat some of the teams that we've lost to. Easily GS, Phoenix comes to mind. The difference is coaching. We've lost a lot of close games. For the most part you can blame FTs... however, Woody has got to do a better job of getting this team prepared... that means he has to develop players. Now, you're right... Phil Jackson and Pat Riley would probably be at the same place we are now... but neither one of those guys could develop players either. Not well.

However, what happens if you give this team a guy like Avery Johnson. A guy who knows what to do and who takes no crap? In Dallas he had a team with very few natural defensive players. He made it to the championship game with that. IF you gave him this young, athletic, naturally defensive Hawks team, I think we'd be scary.

I think Woody would have won with that DAL team too. That was a deep, veteran team with an MVP caliber player in Dirk. Give Woody a veteran bench like that and I think he would be more successful. Let's compare their bench to our bench:

Diop v. Zaza

Harris v. Acie

Stackhouse v. Flip

Van Horn v. Solo

Griffin v. Mo

Christie v. Gardner

Armstrong v. Mario

You give Woody that kind of veteran talent off the bench and the talented starting 5 Dallas had and he would win too.

In addition, Avery later lost his team because of the grating way he dealt with his players and I am not so sure he did a good job of developing his young talent. Marquis Daniels was GREAT under Nellie but he hasn't been the same player since Nellie left and you see what happened with Devin Harris when he left Dallas. I will give Avery credit or getting the best out of Josh Howard but I think Woody has done a better job with our young talent overall than Avery did with his young talent in Dallas.

[Admin]

I think Woody would have won with that DAL team too. That was a deep, veteran team with an MVP caliber player in Dirk. Give Woody a veteran bench like that and I think he would be more successful. Let's compare their bench to our bench:

Diop v. Zaza

Harris v. Acie

Stackhouse v. Flip

Van Horn v. Solo

Griffin v. Mo

Christie v. Gardner

Armstrong v. Mario

You give Woody that kind of veteran talent off the bench and the talented starting 5 Dallas had and he would win too.

In addition, Avery later lost his team because of the grating way he dealt with his players and I am not so sure he did a good job of developing his young talent. Marquis Daniels was GREAT under Nellie but he hasn't been the same player since Nellie left and you see what happened with Devin Harris when he left Dallas. I will give Avery credit or getting the best out of Josh Howard but I think Woody has done a better job with our young talent overall than Avery did with his young talent in Dallas.

I agree, we've never had the depth that any of the championship contender teams have had, not even close. The year that they went to the finals they won 60 games which is of course quite impressive but if we win 50 games this year with our injuries and lack of depth I'd consider that equally as impressive especially since it would mean at least a 13 game improvement and the Mavs only improved by 2 games with Avery.

Woody certainly has his flaws but he's better than he's given credit for around here.

By the way Marquis Daniels has been pretty good this year in Indiana, at least until he got injured that is.

[crimedog]

I think the "don't go nuts" also needs to be said for winning streaks. We've had two 6 game winning streaks and I think it has made us think we're better than we are and then we've had a couple of losing streaks that have made us think we're worse than we are. The truth is that we're somewhere in the middle. While I definitely think we could have and perhaps should have won a few more games than we have it's certainly plausible that we could have lost a few more games than we have. I'm just happy that for the first time in forever we appear to be a legit playoff team and I expect us to win more often than not.

Smith has definitely been playing very well lately without Al and if memory serves Horford also played well without Smith. I can only imagine how good our team would be if they both played very well together and Marvin was playing like he did the first 10 games.

Ha, yeah, I remember at the beginning of the year when people here were talking about the Hawks as the best team in the east.

Actually, now that I look, Horford had a couple of big games w/out Smith and a couple of legit stinkers. Similarly, Smith's scoring efficiency has been up since mid December and the real boost he's had since Al's been out has been his rebounding. I think that they certainly can play well together, I suppose its more an issue of getting them to play well together at the same time.