AJC reporter: "Did Bibby's absence play that big of a role tonight?"

[exodus]

Seriously, AGAIN with the scoring? In case I'm not making myself clear, getting off to a better start in the 2nd half does not simply mean how many points we'll score. It means we'll get off to a better start both offensively AND defensively and thus the scoring margin will be more in our favor.

What's laughable is how you seem to be so narrow minded as to think that Bibby ONLY affects the production of the PG spot for the Hawks and their opponent. You seem to have no capacity to think outside of that train of thought and consider that he has an impact in other areas of the game which will affect the final score for both teams, the most simple of which is having an extra NBA caliber player to come off of the bench rather than an end of the bench scrub playing the backup minutes.

Fact: The Hawks gave up 20+ more than their season average without Bibby.

Spin that however you want, but it won't keep it from being a fact.

If Smith sat out a game and the Hawks went 0-15 from 3, would you blame their poor 3 pt shooting on his absense?

that is exactly what you are doing with Bibby. His defense has been his weak spot his entire career.

[Admin]

If Smith sat out a game and the Hawks went 0-15 from 3, would you blame their poor 3 pt shooting on his absense?

that is exactly what you are doing with Bibby. His defense has been his weak spot his entire career.

No, that is what YOU continue to do. You continue to argue that 1 player only affects 1 area while I try to get you to understand that they affect multiple areas.

But just to play along, if Smith sat out a game and the Hawks went 0-15 from 3, I'd have to consider that our interior effectiveness on offense was diminished by not having Smith and therefore had to shoot more from 3. I'd also argue that because he affects our our defense in multiple ways that we might have been shooting that many 3's because we were trying to compensate for a large deficit.

Again, Bibby's defense is NOT the ONLY factor in determining what the Clippers final score would have been.

Do me a favor, go to Google and do a search on the Butterfly Effect and study those results and then perhaps you'll understanding what I'm trying to explain to you.

[exodus]

No, that is what YOU continue to do. You continue to argue that 1 player only affects 1 area while I try to get you to understand that they affect multiple areas.

But just to play along, if Smith sat out a game and the Hawks went 0-15 from 3, I'd have to consider that our interior effectiveness on offense was diminished by not having Smith and therefore had to shoot more from 3. I'd also argue that because he affects our our defense in multiple ways that we might have been shooting that many 3's because we were trying to compensate for a large deficit.

Again, Bibby's defense is NOT the ONLY factor in determining what the Clippers final score would have been.

Do me a favor, go to Google and do a search on the Butterfly Effect and study those results and then perhaps you'll understanding what I'm trying to explain to you.

LOL you sure come up with some crazy stuff. the Hawks were the best 3 point shooting team in the league when Smith was out. That wouldnt stop your rationalizations though.

butterflies can't change the fact that Bibby sucks on D. He probably still has tire tracks on his back from what Harris and Rose did to him. The Hawks lost the game on D. It isn't complex.

[bronnt]

No, that is what YOU continue to do. You continue to argue that 1 player only affects 1 area while I try to get you to understand that they affect multiple areas.

But just to play along, if Smith sat out a game and the Hawks went 0-15 from 3, I'd have to consider that our interior effectiveness on offense was diminished by not having Smith and therefore had to shoot more from 3. I'd also argue that because he affects our our defense in multiple ways that we might have been shooting that many 3's because we were trying to compensate for a large deficit.

Again, Bibby's defense is NOT the ONLY factor in determining what the Clippers final score would have been.

Do me a favor, go to Google and do a search on the Butterfly Effect and study those results and then perhaps you'll understanding what I'm trying to explain to you.

Okay, because this is just crazy, I'll bite on the butterfly effect reference. I know a little about this stuff and irks me to hear you justify a bad argument by referencing something that has no place on an NBA message board.

1) Chaos Theory-better known as the butterfly effect-states that minor differences in initial circumstances can create results which appear random. You've already come to the conclusion that removing Bibby from the game caused this difference in results and you have no proof. Chaos effect is an observable phenomenon and usually occurs in dynamic systems that have periodic orbits (for example, astronomical phenomena) but can occur in other systems where events transpire following the effects of time and a sequence of events based on initial circumances-like the weather, the famous butterfly example.

2) Your argument is eminently weak when you're using modern scientific theory completely out of context to talk about basketball. Rather than explaining the actual effect an NBA play has on defense, you used a nebulous explanation that's connected to quantum mechanics to suggest that there's a connection between a player's presence and his absence, when there's much more concrete ways of measuring such things (though they are far, far from perfect). The biggest problem is that you've come to a conclusion which CANNOT be proved WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE when the very definition of chaos theory requires that such observations should seem to be random factors.

3) This entire conversation has really made me roll my eyes. You took a bad defensive point guard out of the game, played a couple of guarda who are slightly better overall defenders, and had a horrible defensive game. Clearly, you need to look elsewhere to explain this loss.

[bronnt]

One point I left out of my last post is that your last sentence made it sound like you were trying to be erudite and condescending with your butterfly effect reference, and someone truly learned would have avoided mentioning that effect because there's no way to actually prove any connection. It doesn't strengthen any argument unless you have data to back it up.

[Admin]

One point I left out of my last post is that your last sentence made it sound like you were trying to be erudite and condescending with your butterfly effect reference, and someone truly learned would have avoided mentioning that effect because there's no way to actually prove any connection. It doesn't strengthen any argument unless you have data to back it up.

You're right, I'm not sure what I was thinking when I said that. At that point I was tired of arguing with Ex and ready to go home after a long work day.

However other than referring to it as the butterfly effect I still stand by what I've said all along in this thread and perhaps another term could be better used to describe how Bibby has an impact on more than one area of the game and simply plugging in another player who is a better defender isn't going to compensate for the other ways in which Bibby affects our team defense.