AJC reporter: "Did Bibby's absence play that big of a role tonight?"

[NineOhTheRino]

This was a question for Woody after that spanking Saturday night. This has to be the dumbest question in the history of questions. Hawks give up 120+ points and he's asking about Mike Bibby :laughing5:

Note to AJC reporter: THE HAWKS GAVE UP 121 POINTS SO MAYBE THAT'S WHY THEY LOST!!!!

[DrReality]

Terrance Moore?

[NineOhTheRino]

Terrance Moore?

I swear he sounded like Sekou. Not 100% sure though.

Edited February 9, 2009 by NineOhTheRino

[Admin]

It's not as black and white as we gave up 120+ points and thinking that a weak defender like Bibby would have changed that. His impact on the score would have come from us having better possessions, scoring more points, getting into our offensive and defensive sets a little better, turning it over less, energy, etc. Would we have won the game without him? I doubt it, but we wouldn't have been blown out like that.

[exodus]

It's not as black and white as we gave up 120+ points and thinking that a weak defender like Bibby would have changed that. His impact on the score would have come from us having better possessions, scoring more points, getting into our offensive and defensive sets a little better, turning it over less, energy, etc. Would we have won the game without him? I doubt it, but we wouldn't have been blown out like that.

That is just wishful thinking. We were down 17 in the first half against the friggin Bobcats with Bibby playing. We scored 43 in the first half against the Cats and 41 in the first half against the Clipps.

The difference is that the Cats scored only 42 pts in the second half. The Clipps scored 35 in the 3rd quarter.

We gave up more points against the Clipps than we have given up all year.

[Admin]

That is just wishful thinking. We were down 17 in the first half against the friggin Bobcats with Bibby playing. We scored 43 in the first half against the Cats and 41 in the first half against the Clipps.

The difference is that the Cats scored only 42 pts in the second half. The Clipps scored 35 in the 3rd quarter.

We gave up more points against the Clipps than we have given up all year.

You do realize that there are 2 half's right? And that we were able to rally against the Bobcats in the 2nd half?

Again I'm not saying we would have won the game had Bibby been starting at PG but it's ridiculous to think that it wouldn't have been a more competitive game, especially considering it was our biggest home loss of the season and that just happened to be the game that Bibby missed.

[exodus]

You do realize that there are 2 half's right? And that we were able to rally against the Bobcats in the 2nd half?

We rallied offensively against the Clipps too. We scored 31 in the 3rd quarter against them. We just couldn't stop them defensively. Did you even watch the game?

The reason we beat the Bobcats is that they couldn't score in the second half. The first half of both games was nearly identical.

[Admin]

We rallied offensively against the Clipps too. We scored 31 in the 3rd quarter against them. We just couldn't stop them defensively. Did you even watch the game?

The reason we beat the Bobcats is that they couldn't score in the second half. The first half of both games was nearly identical.

Yes I watched the game, but rallying is more than scoring points. It's equally about (or maybe more so) about stopping the other team from scoring and unless you're giving no credit to our defense against the Bobcats while giving the blame to our defense against the Clippers then I don't think you're being very fair here.

We were down 12 to the Bobcats at halftime and then we were +17 against the Bobcats in the 2nd half.

We were down 14 to the Clippers at halftime and then the Clippers were +10 in the 2nd half against us.

That's a 27 point swing and clearly demonstrates the difference in our rallying ability with and without Bibby.

[exodus]

Yes I watched the game, but rallying is more than scoring points. It's equally about (or maybe more so) about stopping the other team from scoring and unless you're giving no credit to our defense against the Bobcats while giving the blame to our defense against the Clippers then I don't think you're being very fair here.

We were down 12 to the Bobcats at halftime and then we were +17 against the Bobcats in the 2nd half.

We were down 14 to the Clippers at halftime and then the Clippers were +10 in the 2nd half against us.

That's a 27 point swing and clearly demonstrates the difference in our rallying ability with and without Bibby.

So Bibby made a difference of 27 points defensively? OK

On the season the Hawks are giving up 6.2 ppg more when Bibby is playing.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL2.HTM

If you want to believe that Bibby would have been able to shut down Randolph and Thornton then be my guest.

[Admin]

So Bibby made a difference of 27 points defensively? OK

Where did I say that?

On the season the Hawks are giving up 6.2 ppg more when Bibby is playing.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL2.HTM

If you want to believe that Bibby would have been able to shut down Randolph and Thornton then be my guest.

Where did I say that?

Please refer to my first post in this thread where I talk about how Bibby would have impacted the game for clarification.

[tonegully]

We have to fix our intensity. We have none at the beginning of the games. We look flat and unmotivated. Woodson or Sund needs to find a way to light a fire under these guys.

[exodus]

Where did I say that?

Where did I say that?

Please refer to my first post in this thread where I talk about how Bibby would have impacted the game for clarification.

The whole reason we are saying that Bibby wouldn't have made a difference is because the breakdown was on defense, not offense. That is the whole point.

When i point out that we rallied offensively against the Clipps you say,

Yes I watched the game, but rallying is more than scoring points. It's equally about (or maybe more so) about stopping the other team from scoring

which is my whole point. Bibby is EASILY the worst defender in the starting 5. he was out and Baron didn't do anything against Acie. Therefore acting like Bibby would have been a difference maker in this game is nonsense.

We struggled badly in the first half offensively against the Cats just like we did against the Clipps. We rallied offensively against the Clipps just like we did against the Cats.

The difference was defense and Bibby isn't a difference maker on defense, other than making the defense worse.

[Admin]

The whole reason we are saying that Bibby wouldn't have made a difference is because the breakdown was on defense, not offense. That is the whole point.

When i point out that we rallied offensively against the Clipps you say,

which is my whole point. Bibby is EASILY the worst defender in the starting 5. he was out and Baron didn't do anything against Acie. Therefore acting like Bibby would have been a difference maker in this game is nonsense.

We struggled badly in the first half offensively against the Cats just like we did against the Clipps. We rallied offensively against the Clipps just like we did against the Cats.

The difference was defense and Bibby isn't a difference maker on defense, other than making the defense worse.

But the problem with your thinking here is that you seem to believe that the PG only affects the defense at the PG spot. You're ignoring how the style he plays defense affects the rest of the defense. Bibby is better at playing the passing lanes than Acie and that could have been a big difference in this game. The rest of the starters are also more comfortable with Bibby and his rotations on defense might be smoother.

The bottom line is that there are 2 indisputable facts.

1. We are better with Bibby and Acie than we are with just one of them.
   
2. We had our most lopsided home defeat of the season without Bibby.
   

The rest is just speculation.

[exodus]

But the problem with your thinking here is that you seem to believe that the PG only affects the defense at the PG spot. You're ignoring how the style he plays defense affects the rest of the defense. Bibby is better at playing the passing lanes than Acie and that could have been a big difference in this game. The rest of the starters are also more comfortable with Bibby and his rotations on defense might be smoother.

The bottom line is that there are 2 indisputable facts.

1. We are better with Bibby and Acie than we are with just one of them.
   
2. We had our most lopsided home defeat of the season without Bibby.
   

The rest is just speculation.

If Bibby plays the passing lanes so well then why is the team giving up 6.2 more ppg when he is playing?

We got lit up by Randolph and Thornton. There isn't anything that the worst defender in the starting 5 could have done to slow them down.

We have been getting off to slow starts offensively for weeks. That is a fact. Since Bibby has been playing in all of those games it is just wishful thinking to say he would have prevented the Hawks from getting off to a slow start against the Clipps.

We scored 97 pts, a whopping 1.6 less than our season average.

[Admin]

If Bibby plays the passing lanes so well then why is the team giving up 6.2 more ppg when he is playing?

I didn't say he played them well, I said he plays them better than Acie.

We got lit up by Randolph and Thornton. There isn't anything that the worst defender in the starting 5 could have done to slow them down.

So our defensive rotations could haven't been better with Bibby which could have led to slowing those guys down? Our bench play couldn't have been stronger with Bibby starting and Acie coming off the bench which could have led to slowing those guys down?

We have been getting off to slow starts offensively for weeks. That is a fact. Since Bibby has been playing in all of those games it is just wishful thinking to say he would have prevented the Hawks from getting off to a slow start against the Clipps.

That's true it does appear that with or without Bibby we would have likely gotten off to a slow start in the first half. The difference is that we likely would have gotten off to a better start in the 2nd half with Bibby as we've shown for weeks. That is a fact.

We scored 97 pts, a whopping 1.6 less than our season average.

And how much more did we give up than our season average? Since you can quantify the difference offensively to justify your argument then the same has to hold true for us defensively.

[exodus]

That's true it does appear that with or without Bibby we would have likely gotten off to a slow start in the first half. The difference is that we likely would have gotten off to a better start in the 2nd half with Bibby as we've shown for weeks. That is a fact.

We scored 31 in the 3rd quarter. Are you trying to say they would have scored 50 in the quarter with Bibby?

And how much more did we give up than our season average? Since you can quantify the difference offensively to justify your argument then the same has to hold true for us defensively.

We gave up 20+ more than our season average which is why we lost. Since Bibby's defense is his big weakness saying he would have been able to slow them down defensively is like saying he can slow down global warming.

[Admin]

We scored 31 in the 3rd quarter. Are you trying to say they would have scored 50 in the quarter with Bibby?

Man there you go AGAIN with scoring. Have you not read anything I've said in this thread?

We gave up 20+ more than our season average which is why we lost. Since Bibby's defense is his big weakness saying he would have been able to slow them down defensively is like saying he can slow down global warming.

Oh okay well then let's ignore that the one variation to the game from our season average has been missing Bibby. Nope Bibby wouldn't have affected what the Clippers did at all. Having Acie come off the bench instead of starting wouldn't have affected what the Clippers did at all either.

[exodus]

Man there you go AGAIN with scoring. Have you not read anything I've said in this thread?

I have and nothing you are saying makes any sense. Lets look at your quote again.

The difference is that we likely would have gotten off to a better start in the 2nd half with Bibby as we've shown for weeks

We scored 31 points in the 3rd quarter. We got off to a great start in the second half. How much more do you think we could score with Bibby.

Oh okay well then let's ignore that the one variation to the game from our season average has been missing Bibby. Nope Bibby wouldn't have affected what the Clippers did at all. Having Acie come off the bench instead of starting wouldn't have affected what the Clippers did at all either.

Having Bibby starting against Baron most likely would have led to a lot of easy baskets for BAron.

Fact: We lost this game on defense.

Fact: Bibby is a lame defender.

The fact that you put these two things together and somehow come to the conclusion that Bibby would have made a big difference in this game is laughable.

[exodus]

This was a question for Woody after that spanking Saturday night. This has to be the dumbest question in the history of questions. Hawks give up 120+ points and he's asking about Mike Bibby :laughing5:

Note to AJC reporter: THE HAWKS GAVE UP 121 POINTS SO MAYBE THAT'S WHY THEY LOST!!!!

QFT

[Admin]

I have and nothing you are saying makes any sense. Lets look at your quote again.

We scored 31 points in the 3rd quarter. We got off to a great start in the second half. How much more do you think we could score with Bibby.

Seriously, AGAIN with the scoring? In case I'm not making myself clear, getting off to a better start in the 2nd half does not simply mean how many points we'll score. It means we'll get off to a better start both offensively AND defensively and thus the scoring margin will be more in our favor.

Having Bibby starting against Baron most likely would have led to a lot of easy baskets for BAron.

Fact: We lost this game on defense.

Fact: Bibby is a lame defender.

The fact that you put these two things together and somehow come to the conclusion that Bibby would have made a big difference in this game is laughable.

What's laughable is how you seem to be so narrow minded as to think that Bibby ONLY affects the production of the PG spot for the Hawks and their opponent. You seem to have no capacity to think outside of that train of thought and consider that he has an impact in other areas of the game which will affect the final score for both teams, the most simple of which is having an extra NBA caliber player to come off of the bench rather than an end of the bench scrub playing the backup minutes.

Fact: The Hawks gave up 20+ more than their season average without Bibby.

Spin that however you want, but it won't keep it from being a fact.