buckeye242424 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 That's an easy one. Wade has it. Paul Pierce has it. Kobe has it. Chris Paul. Deron Williams. Ben Gordon. Artest. LeBron James. Brandon Roy. Tony Parker. Nate Robinson. Ray Allen. Heck, even Flip Murray has it. Flip's just not as good as those guys. You see, you don't have to be very talented to have that fire within you. You just have to have that fire in your gut first. However, having that "fire in your gut" will only take you so far. Likewise, talent will only take you so far. Having a good combination of both makes great players, and the right combination of talent and "fire in the gut" makes special players. Therefore, you can have differing combined levels of talent and fire. As far as Joe Johnson is concerned, he's not as athletically gifted as other elite players in the league, but, if he had that "fire in his gut" that other players have, he would make up for it because he has good physical size and tremendous basketball skill. I don't think that anyone can truly say that Joe Johnson has been busting his butt and has done everything he can to help his team win in this playoff series. That's a matter of heart and desire more than anything else. Well apparently having the "fire in your gut" WITH TALENT can only get you so far as well. What in the hell has Ben Gordon, Nate Robinson, Chris Paul, and D. Williams done in their careers? Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Isn't not asserting himself just another way to say he isn't stepping up. Joe has been an aberition in this series. He is nowhere to be found. Thank god some other guys are putting this team on their back, because Joe would rather watch than actually contribute. The OP said that JJ was "incapable" of stepping up. I said that he just isn't stepping up. Yes, saying that he's not stepping up is the the same as saying that he's not asserting himself. But just because he isn't asserting himself, doesn't mean that he's incapable of doing it. Make no mistake folks. JJ isn't playing nearly at the level that she should be playing at. But at the same time, his defense and the 21 points he either scored or created, helped us win that game last night. The 3 that Flip hit in that 4th quarter, came via JJ driving toward the lane, but seeing Flip open in the corner. I'd like to see JJ either around 22 ppg with 5 assists . . or 18 ppg with 8 assists. Either way, he either needs to be scoring a lot, or creating a lot of opportunities for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antmillennium Posted April 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Well apparently having the "fire in your gut" WITH TALENT can only get you so far as well. What in the hell has Ben Gordon, Nate Robinson, Chris Paul, and D. Williams done in their careers? Nothing. You don't pay attention very well. Go back and read the post. You'll see that I clearly said that there are differing combinations of talent and fire. Oh, and Chris Paul, Ben Gordon, and D. Williams have done far more than Joe Johnson has done this year in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 If I didn't think Joe Johnson had the tools to step up, I wouldn't be so disgusted with him. However, being that he does have the tools to step up (we saw it last year vs. the Celtics), it has to be mental. Therefore, mentally, Joe Johnson is incapable of stepping up when he needs to. He doesn't have that fire within him that other superstar players have within them. Therefore, it's not stupid to say that Joe is incapable of stepping up. You can have all of the physical tools in the world, but if you lack the fire, the drive, and the mental toughness to refuse to be denied, you are rendering your physical tools useless and you have, in effect, made yourself incapable of stepping up. That's isn't incapability though. He's just being too much of a team player, when he probably should be a little more selfish. It's the same stuff they used to accuse Kevin Garnett of, before Sam Cassell and Latrell Spreewell helped him reach the Western Conference Finals. Like KG . . . JJ may trust his teammates a little TOO MUCH. I think this team would look much different, if JJ had people to toss the ball to, that could acutally knock down 20 foot jumpers on the regular. But all of our shooters are streaky as best. That's why when others are struggling, he probably needs to be more assertive. It's almost better for him to shoot and miss, and us possibly getting an offensive rebound via Smoove or Horford grabbing a board . . than it is for him to pass to Smoove or Horford, and have them miss a jumper, with only one of them of size, able to get the rebound. I would love to see how many assists JJ has via passing to Marvin for a jumper. Marvin needs to play in Game 5. If not for anything, but for his rebounding and defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyMcClure Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Best. Fans. Ever. Hey, that's the Comic Book Guy's line! Shame on you Duff Man... oh, yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 And if anyone knows a POS, it's this guy. They can smell their own. Check your PM box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeye242424 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 You don't pay attention very well. Go back and read the post. You'll see that I clearly said that there are differing combinations of talent and fire. Oh, and Chris Paul, Ben Gordon, and D. Williams have done far more than Joe Johnson has done this year in the playoffs. Ok. Chris Paul and Derron Williams exhibit both the "fire in the gut" and the talent, or differing combinations of both, how you put it. Paul's Hornets got beat by nearly 60 points and are down 1-3. Williams' Jazz are done, losing 1-4. Continue to complain and moan about Joe, I'll stick with him. We wouldn't be where we are without him, and we wouldn't have won last night without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 That's an easy one. Wade has it. Paul Pierce has it. Kobe has it. Chris Paul. Deron Williams. Ben Gordon. Artest. LeBron James. Brandon Roy. Tony Parker. Nate Robinson. Ray Allen. Heck, even Flip Murray has it. Flip's just not as good as those guys. You see, you don't have to be very talented to have that fire within you. You just have to have that fire in your gut first. However, having that "fire in your gut" will only take you so far. Likewise, talent will only take you so far. Having a good combination of both makes great players, and the right combination of talent and "fire in the gut" makes special players. Therefore, you can have differing combined levels of talent and fire. As far as Joe Johnson is concerned, he's not as athletically gifted as other elite players in the league, but, if he had that "fire in his gut" that other players have, he would make up for it because he has good physical size and tremendous basketball skill. I don't think that anyone can truly say that Joe Johnson has been busting his butt and has done everything he can to help his team win in this playoff series. That's a matter of heart and desire more than anything else. Be very careful not to display your own opinion. That doesn't sit well with alot of people. You got to remember, this team isn't respected for no darn good reason. Everybody should see that DA HAWKS ARE 4 REELZ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrueSiete Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Be very careful not to display your blind hate towards a team of which you call yourself a fan. That doesn't sit well with alot of people. Fixed... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyMcClure Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Fixed... 7 Now, can you fix the Hawks? Cause, Hots and I have been waiting for like, over a decade. Edited April 28, 2009 by TroyMcClure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Fixed... 7 Blind hate? -I've told you that JJ wouldn't get it done when it mattered. And it's happened. JJ lacks competitive drive. -I told you that this team is an extremely flawed team that can do little consistently. So far that's what we've seen. -I've told you that ownership isn't committed to winning an it's being said that Woody is staying. Which shows non commitment to winning from the owners. The decline of teams like Detroit and even Washington have allowed this team to win a few more games. But make no mistake, this team only won 4 more games than Wade+Spareparts. While this team has improved, it's not near the level that some people think. I like to see basketball played well. If that offends you in some way, I don't know what to tell you. I don't appreciate "And 1" basketball. Which is what we get most of the time with these players. It's only "blind" to you because you refuse to accept reality. When this team starts trying to build a system that works and when this team strives for something of note... I'll get off their back. The Gm seems to be happy that they just made the playoffs. Losing to Wade+spare parts should be considered unacceptable. Don't you have the fire in your belly to see this franchise get to where the Lakers and SA is at? Don't you want that? If you do, what is going on should be unacceptable. I treat the Titans much the same way. They got some of the same problems. Bud Adams puts no money into the team and that's why they got no QB or WR's. The falcons are far more committed to winning. Even if they make some mistakes. Edited April 28, 2009 by Hotlanta1981 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeye242424 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Be very careful not to display your own opinion. That doesn't sit well with alot of people. You got to remember, this team isn't respected for no darn good reason. Everybody should see that DA HAWKS ARE 4 REELZ! I'm not speaking for anyone else on this board, but not once have I mentioned that I think the Hawks are going to be NBA Champions. In my mind, ultimately, that's the only thing being "real" can represent. Besides, the differing opinions on this thread are about JJ supposedly not having any heart, sorry, "fire"...unlike Ben Gordon, who is Lucifer himself I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeye242424 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Blind hate? -I've told you that JJ wouldn't get it done when it mattered. And it's happened. JJ lacks competitive drive. -I told you that this team is an extremely flawed team that can do little consistently. So far that's what we've seen. -I've told you that ownership isn't committed to winning an it's being said that Woody is staying. Which shows non commitment to winning from the owners. The decline of teams like Detroit and even Washington have allowed this team to win a few more games. But make no mistake, this team only won 4 more games than Wade+Spareparts. While this team has improved, it's not near the level that some people think. I like to see basketball played well. If that offends you in some way, I don't know what to tell you. I don't appreciate "And 1" basketball. Which is what we get most of the time with these players. It's only "blind" to you because you refuse to accept reality. When this team starts trying to build a system that works and when this team strives for something of note... I'll get off their back. The Gm seems to be happy that they just made the playoffs. Losing to Wade+spare parts should be considered unacceptable. Don't you have the fire in your belly to see this franchise get to where the Lakers and SA is at? Don't you want that? If you do, what is going on should be unacceptable. I'd say winning playoff games is the ONLY thing that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrueSiete Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Blind hate? -I've told you that JJ wouldn't get it done when it mattered. And it's happened. JJ lacks competitive drive. -I told you that this team is an extremely flawed team that can do little consistently. So far that's what we've seen. -I've told you that ownership isn't committed to winning an it's being said that Woody is staying. Which shows non commitment to winning from the owners. The decline of teams like Detroit and even Washington have allowed this team to win a few more games. But make no mistake, this team only won 4 more games than Wade+Spareparts. While this team has improved, it's not near the level that some people think. I like to see basketball played well. If that offends you in some way, I don't know what to tell you. I don't appreciate "And 1" basketball. Which is what we get most of the time with these players. It's only "blind" to you because you refuse to accept reality. After 4 games we have seen Joe not get it done when it matters? When has it mattered? This team does have flaws... But so does every other team out there... Hence the reason no one went undefeated. Believing all the rumors out there is not the best thing for pessimistic people like yourself... And I guess Detroit's decline didn't help out every other team as well? This team is at a consistent playoff level... That is the reality... Again, your hatred shows in each of your posts... Even after we won on the road, which you repeatedly stated would never happen in the playoffs, you still spew hate all over OUR TEAM'S page... Notlanta at her best... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrueSiete Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I'd say winning playoff games is the ONLY thing that matters. x2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antmillennium Posted April 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Ok. Chris Paul and Derron Williams exhibit both the "fire in the gut" and the talent, or differing combinations of both, how you put it. Paul's Hornets got beat by nearly 60 points and are down 1-3. Williams' Jazz are done, losing 1-4. Continue to complain and moan about Joe, I'll stick with him. We wouldn't be where we are without him, and we wouldn't have won last night without him. Actually, we wouldn't have won without ZaZa last night. Anyway, yeah, you're right. Joe Johnson is flawless and he has being playing like an elite player this postseason. He is really earning his salary right now and showing EVERYONE what he is made of. JOE JOHNSON FOR MVP!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 After 4 games we have seen Joe not get it done when it matters? When has it mattered? This team does have flaws... But so does every other team out there... Hence the reason no one went undefeated. Believing all the rumors out there is not the best thing for pessimistic people like yourself... And I guess Detroit's decline didn't help out every other team as well? This team is at a consistent playoff level... That is the reality... Again, your hatred shows in each of your posts... Even after we won on the road, which you repeatedly stated would never happen in the playoffs, you still spew hate all over OUR TEAM'S page... Notlanta at her best... 7 They've had one winning season this decade. That's not consistent playoff level. Moreover, this team has only played 1 good game in this series so far. Cleveland had already been in the finals a few years ago and Boston won the title last year. Maybe it helped Orlando though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 I'd say winning playoff games is the ONLY thing that matters. You think they can compete with the real playoff teams playing the way they currently play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrueSiete Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 They've had one winning season this decade. That's not consistent playoff level. Moreover, this team has only played 1 good game in this series so far. Cleveland had already been in the finals a few years ago and Boston won the title last year. Maybe it helped Orlando though. They've made the playoffs in back to back seasons... They've only played one good game in your eyes... Yet, they have 2 wins... Spoken like a true hater... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrueSiete Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 You think they can compete with the real playoff teams playing the way they currently play? Yes... But that's a FAN'S PERSPECTIVE... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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