Hawksman Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hawks suck. Hawks suck. That's what I hear all the friggin time, but you know what, I think that's [censored]. This team has the talent to be effective. With Dog gone, we should jell a lot better. We are going to resign JT and likely Glover too, along with that, we are looking to bring back Smitty, and we are looking at others like Voshon Lenard, Kenny Anderson, and some other good vets. Did I even mention that Nazr Mohammed is back and 100%? That will add another 10 and 7 off the bench. We have a very good coach, and a respectful GM. Stotts has gotten 45-50 calls from former coaches or players to join the bench as assistants. Wake up people! We are Hawks fans, not Hawks haters. I might get suspended from the site for saying [censored], but I don't care. Stand up Atlanta. Come the games and support your team. No matter how bad it is and it aint bad to me right now. C'mon guys. GO HAWKS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Why don't the Hawks support fans? They don't care about putting the best product on the floor that they possible can... So why does a team that cares nothing about winning deserve support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksman Posted August 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Of course. AOL Time Warner didn't care at all about the team. Once McDavid is here, fans will come. They will come Ray, they will most defenitley come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Yeah. This team doesn't listen to the fans. Just look at what happened in 1998. The Hawks fans were screaming for a change, and what happened? Wait a minute. They made a change. The Hawks could have stood pat and kept that team that was caught in the trap of being good with no potential to be great. They could have continued on winning their 45-50 games with Mookie, Smith, Henderson, and Mutombo as the main cogs. They didn't though. They took a chance and blew it up. In retrospect, it was something they should have gradually done. But they did it all at once, non-the-less. And here we are again, with you people wanting to blow the team up again, all at once. Not a stinking one of you learned anything from the last time!! This team made a jump of +10 games upon the aquisition of Shareef Abdur-Rahim two years ago. They went from winning 23 games in 2000-01 to winning 33 games in 2001-02. They TRIED to get even better by adding another proven scorer to the line up, but that move failed. This is a team that won 33 games two years ago when all they had was Shareef and Jason. And I'm supposed believe that this team is going to take a nose dive from that season just because Glenn Robinson was dealt and a rookie will take his place? The only thing blowing this team up again will accomplish will be putting the fans through 4-5 more years of losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceman Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 more disruptive than anyone could have imagined. Couple that with the fact that Lenny had no desire to play or develop the young guys and you had a recipe for disaster. I still think the Mookie for Bimbo/#10 trade was a terrific trade. The Smitty for Rider/JJ trade was an unmitigated disaster but hindsight is 20/20. As for the jump from 00/01 to 01/02, please! We HAD to be better! We couldn't possibly have put a worse team on the floor than the team we played with that year. Deke was BY FAR our best player and he was hurt to start the season. It's a miracle that team won 25 games (not 23). As for blowing up this team, it can be done now or it can be done in 05/06 but it WILL be done. If Reef, Theo and JT are all on this roster to start the 05/06 season I will be SHOCKED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaviar Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Correction.... they did not blow it up enough. They mortgaged most of their draft picks over the last four years on mediocre talent, instead of building from scratch. Kasten/Babcock thought they were on to something. If they would have kept all those picks Hawks fans would have something to get excited about this season, and maybe would have already made the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 The decision to make mass changes all at once was what did the Hawks in. They could have made the Mookie for JT trade, but they should have waited to deal Smith. The fact remains that you can't combine that many pieces at once and expect them all to gell together. Especially when you introduce a known volatile substance like JR Rider to the mixture. Robinson wasn't quite as volatile, but adding him to last year's team had a similar effect. It made the mixture bad. I'm willing to bet that both JT and SAR will be on this team in 05-06. I don't think Theo will in the long run. When his contract comes up, he will be 33. Atlanta won't sign him to a long term deal at 33. I'm not adverse to trading him. My only stance is that Atlanta get a capable center in return. Centers are too hard to find to deal one for just anything. SAR may not be worth the money he is making, but there aren't very many players that are worth the money they are making. If Kenny Thomas is worth $50 million over 7 years, then Shareef is [censored] sure worth what he's getting. Kenyon Martin isn't the scorer nor the rebounder Reef is, but he's asking for a max contract? Sorry. Reef may not be in the upper echelon with McGrady, Bryant, and Iverson, but he isn't that far off it. I'd still put him in the echelon that is right below that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 You haven't quite figured out that youth doesn't win in this league, no matter how much potential they have. Experience wins in this league, and the more players you have that know how to win, the better off you are. That's why the Hawks are looking into signing Stephen Jackson. That's why the Hawks want to bring back Steve Smith. These are players who know how to win. These are players that can come in and serve a veteran leadership role because they have been to the playoffs and won in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 26, 2003 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 When the Hawks Blew up the team in 1999.... It was a BAD move. It was done without really thinking. The Hawks had: 4 1st round picks, a 4.5 Million dollar exemption and a 1 Million Dollar Exemption. Instead of building on that strength and reloading, the Hawks traded... They traded away their BACKCOURT for characters who couldn't understand TEAM. Bad Move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Mookie the brick layer sure as heck wasn't a team player. That team deserved to be broken up. Do you not remember how terrible they looked in the playoffs? The only thing they did in the playoffs was beat a few untalented Detroit teams. Steve Smith know how to win? Win what? It isn't like he contributed to the Spurs championship. All he done was rode the bench and took the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 26, 2003 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 The problem with that season was that it was a short season. Teams coming out of the lockout and players coming back not in basketball shape. ON top of that, those players who were not in basketball shape were expected to play 4 or 5 games a week. That leads to injury. That's what happened with us. Hendu had his eye injury. Mookie had nagging injuries. Smitty's knees were injured. Then even Grant Long got injured. However, NY was in good shape. Their only injured piece was Pat Ewing. Everybody forgets that they went to the NBA finals that year. Everybody forgets that we beat Detroit that year. Yes, we had a bad series against the Eastern Conference Finalist. So did Indy... But did they rebuild? The problem.. I could have accepted the Mookie trade. In fact, I had. But it made NO Sense to trade Smitty. With JT coming in, he was going to need vet Leadership and on Floor guidance. He certainly didn't get it from JR. IN fact, JR taught JT to give up the ball and go and set up for your shot. With 4 1st rounders we could have come up with a better plan than we used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaviar Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Well, if they had kept their picks what would the team look like now? Quentin Richardson Gasol or Curry Stoudemire or Butler TJ Ford or ? Subtract Rahim and Robinson and add Terry, Ratliff & Mohammed (or Mutombo's expired contract), Digaw, Glover (?), Johnson (?), etc.... That would be a team ready to contribute now and have the city and the NBA talking. That would be a team with a future instead of a team that will have to be dismantled again because of short cuts taken with the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Smitty had to be traded... Face it, he wasn't that good anymore. His FG% had alreadyed droped down to 40% and he had his knee drained several times if I remember correctly. He has done...He didn't look as bad with the Blazers because of the overall talent and he really didn't have to be a main scorer most nights. Who cares if we beat Detroit in the playoffs those years? All they had ws Hill and a old Joe Dumars. They had sorry Brian Williams starting at center and Lindsey Hunter. Mookies last couple of years were a pure joke here. What was his fg% percentages again? How many shots did he actually make? It seemed like about 20% of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 I remember when we nearly had Chicago on the ropes a few seasons earlier...I think we barely lost the first game in the last minute and won game 2 by like 10... I remember the turning in my stomach when MJ would hit unstoppable mode. I did go over that series realizing Chicago was simply better. However, I was a rah rah rah fan like Mike until that butchering with NY. I hated basketball that whole summer.... I thought I'd never watch another game. I don't think I've truely forgiven this franchise since that playoff series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 26, 2003 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 http://www.nba.com/playerfile/steve_smith/...ayer_files.html Year TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG 99-00 POR 82 81 32.8 .467 .398 .850 1.50 2.30 3.80 2.5 .87 .38 1.43 2.60 14.9 00-01 POR 81 36 31.4 .456 .339 .890 1.10 2.30 3.40 2.6 .59 .30 1.69 2.50 13.6 01-02 SAS 77 76 28.7 .455 .472 .878 .60 1.90 2.50 2.0 .70 .19 1.40 2.10 11.6 02-03 SAS 53 18 19.5 .388 .331 .833 .40 1.50 1.90 1.3 .53 .17 .81 1.50 6.8 Since Leaving us... His FG% went up significantly, his three point shooting went up Significantly. Although age and other things brought his numbers down, the thing is he was still able to produce. He's been to 4 playoffs since he left. IN year one, away from us, he and Pippen dominated Kobe in the LAL/PorT series. This past year was his worst year, but the man has gotten old. I think keeping him would have been a whole lot better than going through what we went through with JR/JJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 His FG% went up and everything else went down because of less pressure to produce. It's that simple. Look at the teams he's been with since leaving Atlanta.. OF course he made the playoffs! He ever got a ring for being a bench cheerleader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 26, 2003 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 I wont disagree about the ring. However, let's talk about less pressure. ON the squad that Smitty played on for us. It was Mookie, Smitty, Corbin, Hendu, Deke. In that Lineup, Smitty had to be a goto guy. However, just 2 short years later, it could have been: JT/Smitty/CC/Lo/Deke JT/Smitty/Glover/Lo/Nazr. JT/Smitty/Toni/Reef/Nazr. JT/Smitty/Grob/Reef/Theo. Honestly, I think our fortunes would have been a lot better had we kept Smitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 I do know this....after the playoff failures I was glad to see everyone on that team go.... They are the example of what this franchise has been for far too long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traceman Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 will make this year even if he is overpaid. Thomsas will make about $5.5 million this season compared to Reef's 13.5 million. Is Reef worth $8 million/season more than Thomas? Next year, Reef will make $14.6 million to Thomas' $6.2 million. As you can see, the size difference in their salaries increases every year. Thomas is a 14/8 guy and Reef is a 20/8 guy. Neither has prototypical size for the PF position and both can be taken advantage of by bigger PFs in the low post. I guess the question is whether you would rather have Reef or Kenny Thomas and player like Gilbert Arenas. As for Reef versus K-Mart, K-Mart may be ASKING for a max contract but Reef HAS a max contract. Reef is CLEARLY the better offensive player but because K-Mart is so much better on D, I think they both have about the same value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 26, 2003 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 There is a good way to reload a team... and it doesn't always have to be with a wrecking ball the way that Babcock did.. Have you ever noticed that the good teams never rebuild? Lakers... Name a rebuilding Moment for them? NJ...Since Thorn has been there, they have been a team of trade but not ReBUILD. SacTown... No rebuild in sight. They reload very smoothly. See how they replaced Clark with Miller this year. Dallas.... They have been to the playoffs for the last 4 years with meager results... But do they blow up the team... NO. Point is, I think we would have done a lot better by trading Mookie for JT, but having Smitty here to guide him and help him develop. We basically sent JT to the Wolves and it retarded his development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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