Bibby needs to come off the Bench

[Admin]

This is all speculation based on what you want to see . The outcome of the game doesnt and shouldnt dictate whether or not Teague should play . What if teague was struggling in practice ? Essentially you are saying he should play token minutes because of his draft status but no good team does that .

Its also not just Bibby struggling either,Teague probably has one of the best combo guard in the league playing ahead of him as well. Once you factor in that several of these games you are complaining about were road games it just doesnt make sense because we are not a lottery team.

Its a chicken little attitude to act as though because he hasnt played 30+ minutes per game on a playoff team in his first 40 games then his carer his over. Oh how will ever learn if he doesnt play immediately. :eek:

Oh boy ... this is going to get an angry reply I think.

I do agree with Exodus and others that we're hurting Teague by playing him such inconsistent minutes from game to game. I see no reason why he shouldn't be getting 12-15 minutes every single game and especially so considering how highly Woodson and the players have spoken of Teague and his ability.

[exodus]

This is all speculation based on what you want to see . The outcome of the game doesnt and shouldnt dictate whether or not Teague should play . What if teague was struggling in practice ? Essentially you are saying he should play token minutes because of his draft status but no good team does that .

Its also not just Bibby struggling either,Teague probably has one of the best combo guard in the league playing ahead of him as well. Once you factor in that several of these games you are complaining about were road games it just doesnt make sense because we are not a lottery team.

Speculation? You obviously don't know what the word means. It isn't speculation that Bibby's PER is only slightly better than Teagues even though Teague is a rookie that hardly plays. It isn't speculation that Bibby's defensive weakness forces the entire team to try to cover for him. it isn't speculation that Bibby has been shooting poorly since the end of november. It isn't speculation that Teague has one of the highest steal rates in the NBA.

i think you need to get aquainted with Webster's Online Dictionary.

Its a chicken little attitude to act as though because he hasnt played 30+ minutes per game on a playoff team in his first 40 games then his carer his over. Oh how will ever learn if he doesnt play immediately. :eek:

That is just an idiotic strawman. It isn't a question of Teague getting 30 minutes a game. He isn't even getting 10 most of the time, even against sorry teams.

[DJlaysitup]

2. He hit a lot of clutch shots last year but he shot 37% overall last month. He shot well in November but that's it. ..

Well ex you can wiggle around with your stas all you want but truth is Bibby shoots a high percentage of threes. Let's say he shoots 60% of his shots from the three point land (without a calculator) that would put him at about 48% as far as effective shots...points-wise...comparatively to two point shooters.

[DJlaysitup]

Oh boy ... this is going to get an angry reply I think.

I do agree with Exodus and others that we're hurting Teague by playing him such inconsistent minutes from game to game. I see no reason why he shouldn't be getting 12-15 minutes every single game and especially so considering how highly Woodson and the players have spoken of Teague and his ability.

Personally - I see no reason for the Teague love. Sure - he's fast and can jump (just like the current PG at Missouri State)...but he ain't bringing much.

[Crank]

Oh boy ... this is going to get an angry reply I think.

I do agree with Exodus and others that we're hurting Teague by playing him such inconsistent minutes from game to game. I see no reason why he shouldn't be getting 12-15 minutes every single game and especially so considering how highly Woodson and the players have spoken of Teague and his ability.

But how can anyone say we are hurting Teague unless they see practice and see the entire process . I dont doubt Teague or his ability but hes a rookie and its tough for him. Playing a rookie no matter what is basically the approach that bottom feeders use to justify picking them when you are a playoff team the rookie is to be integrated you dont drop everything for him unless hes the top pick in the draft.

Most teams have a schedule for a rookie and I mentioned this during camp but there was no way he was gonna get a ton of minutes at first with no summer league play as that situation gives him a chance to be in charge and run the team as well as prepare him for game plans, refs etc . I think a lot of people are in denial but no summer league puts teague behind guys like Lawson in his development.

The final thing is where do these magic minutes ? :)

Bibby is at 25 mpg this month Joes minutes are at 37 mpg this season which is pretty good

Crawfords biggest advantage to us especially against the top teams is at PG and hes at 30 mpg

So where do you get Teague 20 mpg from ?

When Bibbys in the game in the 4th quarter now hes usually in because his three point shot is respected leaguewide so he can spread the floor for Joe and jamal. If marvins three ball was falling with consistency this year Bibby wouldnt be in at all and it would Craw,Joe ,Marvin on the perimeter .

[exodus]

Well ex you can wiggle around with your stas all you want but truth is Bibby shoots a high percentage of threes. Let's say he shoots 60% of his shots from the three point land (without a calculator) that would put him at about 48% as far as effective shots...points-wise...comparatively to two point shooters.

Bibby shot 47% from 3 in november. Since then he hasn't done much from 3 or anywhere else. Add in the fact that he is a huge defensive liability who can't create on offense and there is no reason why Teague can't get more minutes.

[exodus]

But how can anyone say we are hurting Teague unless they see practice and see the entire process .

Woody was singing Teagues praises all summer and in preseason. So have his teamates. Unless they were lying it is a pretty safe bet he has been doing well in practice.

So where do you get Teague 20 mpg from ?

Where did i say Teague should get 20 minutes? I guess strawman arguments are your specialty. What i have a problem with is Teague getting consistently less than 10 minutes per game no matter how bad the opponent.

If marvins three ball was falling with consistency this year Bibby wouldnt be in at all and it would Craw,Joe ,Marvin on the perimeter .

Marvin is shooting 36% from 3 on the season, 50% from 3 this month. He hasn't had one month shooting less than 34% from 3.

[Admin]

But how can anyone say we are hurting Teague unless they see practice and see the entire process . I dont doubt Teague or his ability but hes a rookie and its tough for him. Playing a rookie no matter what is basically the approach that bottom feeders use to justify picking them when you are a playoff team the rookie is to be integrated you dont drop everything for him unless hes the top pick in the draft.

Most teams have a schedule for a rookie and I mentioned this during camp but there was no way he was gonna get a ton of minutes at first with no summer league play as that situation gives him a chance to be in charge and run the team as well as prepare him for game plans, refs etc . I think a lot of people are in denial but no summer league puts teague behind guys like Lawson in his development.

The final thing is where do these magic minutes ? :)

Bibby is at 25 mpg this month Joes minutes are at 37 mpg this season which is pretty good

Crawfords biggest advantage to us especially against the top teams is at PG and hes at 30 mpg

So where do you get Teague 20 mpg from ?

When Bibbys in the game in the 4th quarter now hes usually in because his three point shot is respected leaguewide so he can spread the floor for Joe and jamal. If marvins three ball was falling with consistency this year Bibby wouldnt be in at all and it would Craw,Joe ,Marvin on the perimeter .

It's not just bottom feeders that find the time for rookies and below are 2 examples from this season:

Ty Lawson is averaging 22mpg for Denver and yes a lot of those minutes did come when he was a starter replacing an injured Billups but even before that he played in every game and never played fewer than 12 minutes. I'd say that Denver is a team that is very much like us, except for the fact that they've got a great starting PG who is still playing near his peak and don't need to develop a replacement in the next year or two like we do and yet they're finding time for Lawson and he's definitely gotten better because of it. He's got a PER of 17.7 and has definitely made the Nuggets a better team.

DeJuan Blair is playing 16mpg for San Antonio and has played in every game, and only 6 games has he played single digit minutes. He's got a PER of 17.8 and has made a big impact on the Spurs that they wouldn't have if they weren't playing him.

I don't know where you came up with the number 20 for minutes that I'd like to see Teague play. I want to see him playing 12-15 MPG and I want to see him playing in every game and no fewer than 10 in a game. I'm confident that he's doing what he needs to in practice based on the way Woody and the players have talked about him and honestly unless he's being immature and pouting (which he isn't) then regardless of his performance in practice you have to get him minutes in the game otherwise it will take far longer for him to develop.

[Crank]

Speculation? You obviously don't know what the word means. It isn't speculation that Bibby's PER is only slightly better than Teagues even though Teague is a rookie that hardly plays. It isn't speculation that Bibby's defensive weakness forces the entire team to try to cover for him. it isn't speculation that Bibby has been shooting poorly since the end of november. It isn't speculation that Teague has one of the highest steal rates in the NBA.

i think you need to get aquainted with Webster's Online Dictionary.

Yeah you are trying to use PER to compare a 8 mpg player to anyone ? So this is about you hating Bibby ? Even after all you mentioned Bibby is still better than Teague right now .

Bibby is shooting 40% from three right now thats why hes in the game to spread the floor .

Right now AL is tied for the league lead in 3 pt shooting percentage because hes only taken and made ONE doesnt mean if we give him a 1000 he would still be league leader .

Oh I know exactly what speculation means

Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.

so now that you know what it means ill ask you a question

Do you know why Teague is not playing more ? of course not so than what are you doing in every post complaining about why he is not playing ?

That is just an idiotic strawman. It isn't a question of Teague getting 30 minutes a game. He isn't even getting 10 most of the time, even against sorry teams.

You saying those teams are sorry doesnt make them any easier for Teague to face and doesnt mean he should play . Thats basically the problem you want Teague to play so you are grasping at any stats you can to try to fit them into an explanation of why he should be playing more .

Edited January 15, 2010 by Crank

[Crank]

It's not just bottom feeders that find the time for rookies and below are 2 examples from this season:

Ty Lawson is averaging 22mpg for Denver and yes a lot of those minutes did come when he was a starter replacing an injured Billups but even before that he played in every game and never played fewer than 12 minutes. I'd say that Denver is a team that is very much like us, except for the fact that they've got a great starting PG who is still playing near his peak and don't need to develop a replacement in the next year or two like we do and yet they're finding time for Lawson and he's definitely gotten better because of it. He's got a PER of 17.7 and has definitely made the Nuggets a better team.

DeJuan Blair is playing 16mpg for San Antonio and has played in every game, and only 6 games has he played single digit minutes. He's got a PER of 17.8 and has made a big impact on the Spurs that they wouldn't have if they weren't playing him.

I don't know where you came up with the number 20 for minutes that I'd like to see Teague play. I want to see him playing 12-15 MPG and I want to see him playing in every game and no fewer than 10 in a game. I'm confident that he's doing what he needs to in practice based on the way Woody and the players have talked about him and honestly unless he's being immature and pouting (which he isn't) then regardless of his performance in practice you have to get him minutes in the game otherwise it will take far longer for him to develop.

Ty Law played in SL and impressed with his shooting ability and ability to run a team Billups has also been injured and so he has shared time with Anthony Carter but make no mistake Ty Lawson is also a pure point .

Dejuan Blair hs played great but his competition behind Parker was George Hill and Roger Mason Jr. We havent had any injuries that have caused any of our top 3 guards to miss multiple games or even single games .

Those situations just are similar to the one Teague is in . Both those guys played in SL and played well. The coaching staff got a chance to see those players RUN THE TEAMS they were on and perform well . They knew in the summer that those guys could get backup minutes and lead the team . JT is well behind those guys because of that experience

JT played 8 minutes last game and look at the fallout . You have people saying he should replace Bibby because he dominated Boykins .

On this homestand I expect to see teague get minutes in every game against Sac,OKC,CHA,Pho but then we play @Hou@SA and I wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt play much . Hes played in 33 of the 38 games so far .

[exodus]

Yeah you are trying to use PER to compare a 8 mpg player to anyone ? So this is about you hating Bibby ? Even after all you mentioned Bibby is still better than Teague right now .

Bibby is shooting 40% from three right now thats why hes in the game to spread the floor .

Right now AL is tied for the league lead in 3 pt shooting percentage because hes only taken and made ONE doesnt mean if we give him a 1000 he would still be league leader .

Oh I know exactly what speculation means

Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition.

so now that you know what it means ill ask you a question

Do you know why Teague is not playing more ? of course not so than what are you doing in every post complaining about why he is not playing ?

You saying those teams are sorry doesnt make them any easier for Teague to face and doesnt mean he should play . Thats basically the problem you want Teague to play so you are grasping at any stats you can to try to fit them into an explanation of why he should be playing more .

I don't need to grasp for stats to find reasons for Teague to play. He plays D, unlike Bibby. He can beat guys off the dribble which Bibby can't do. The team went on a huge run last game when Teague was in. They had a 22 pt lead when he left the game and Bibby came back in. That lead quickly got cut to 12. The Hawks were +18 with Teague in the game in only 8 minutes.

Bibby has been lame since november. He shot 37% in December. That isn't speculation. It is fact. Given how little Bibby brings to the game other than shooting there isn't much reason to play him when his shot is off.

I know exactly why Teague isn't playing more. It is because Woody won't put him in the game. No matter how bad Bibby is playing Woody will keep putting him out there to get lit up by guys like Mo Williams and Rondo while he is putting up bricks.

[Admin]

Ty Law played in SL and impressed with his shooting ability and ability to run a team Billups has also been injured and so he has shared time with Anthony Carter but make no mistake Ty Lawson is also a pure point .

Dejuan Blair hs played great but his competition behind Parker was George Hill and Roger Mason Jr. We havent had any injuries that have caused any of our top 3 guards to miss multiple games or even single games .

Those situations just are similar to the one Teague is in . Both those guys played in SL and played well. The coaching staff got a chance to see those players RUN THE TEAMS they were on and perform well . They knew in the summer that those guys could get backup minutes and lead the team . JT is well behind those guys because of that experience

JT played 8 minutes last game and look at the fallout . You have people saying he should replace Bibby because he dominated Boykins .

On this homestand I expect to see teague get minutes in every game against Sac,OKC,CHA,Pho but then we play @Hou@SA and I wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt play much . Hes played in 33 of the 38 games so far .

Perhaps you see a lot more value of summer league than I do because I really can't imagine that limited amount of activity would determine whether a player is going to get minutes during the regular season. Plus Teague proved in pre-season (minus the Orlando game) that he can run the team when he put up very good stats and I think that's a hell of a lot more important than summer league games. And as far as I can remember Lawson was pretty bad in the summer league until the very end and I don't know about Blair.

The bottom line is that there is no excuse for Teague to get a DNP-CD or for him to play 3, 4, or 5 minutes in a game. He has easily shown enough in the sporadic minutes that he's gotten to earn a consistent amount of minutes each and every game and IMO that should be 12-15 per game otherwise we'll keep on wondering why Teague isn't getting any better, but how can he if he isn't getting minutes.

[Crank]

I don't need to grasp for stats to find reasons for Teague to play. He plays D, unlike Bibby. He can beat guys off the dribble which Bibby can't do. The team went on a huge run last game when Teague was in. They had a 22 pt lead when he left the game and Bibby came back in. That lead quickly got cut to 12. The Hawks were +18 with Teague in the game in only 8 minutes.

Bibby has been lame since november. He shot 37% in December. That isn't speculation. It is fact. Given how little Bibby brings to the game other than shooting there isn't much reason to play him when his shot is off.

I know exactly why Teague isn't playing more. It is because Woody won't put him in the game. No matter how bad Bibby is playing Woody will keep putting him out there to get lit up by guys like Mo Williams and Rondo while he is putting up bricks.

so again you are saying Woody shouldve benched Bibby the rest of the first half last game ?

Again Bibby has been so terrible that you feel he should be benched ? His minutes in NOV. - 30 mpg , Dec - 25 mpg and so far this month Jan- 25 mpg

So how many minutes should Bibby play ? Do you think he should be taken out of the rotation all together ?

[spotatl]

Ty Lawson and Dejuan Blair were 2 of the top 5 players in College basketball last season. (In fact I'd say 2 of the top 3) They were simply more ready for the NBA than Teague.

Edited January 15, 2010 by spotatl

[exodus]

so again you are saying Woody shouldve benched Bibby the rest of the first half last game ?

Again Bibby has been so terrible that you feel he should be benched ? His minutes in NOV. - 30 mpg , Dec - 25 mpg and so far this month Jan- 25 mpg

So how many minutes should Bibby play ? Do you think he should be taken out of the rotation all together ?

If Bibby's shot is off and he is getting lit up, as is frequently the case, there is absolutely no reason to keep Teague on the bench for the entire 2nd half. The Hawks went on a huge run with Teague in the first half and then he doesn't see the court in the second half even though Bibby was garbage on both ends. That doesn't make sense.

If Bibby is nuking them from 3 then by all means leave him in there. But if he is throwing up bricks and getting abused there is no reason why Teague can't get over 10 minutes.

[spotatl]

I think its pretty clear that Woodson is trying to put Teague in against players he thinks Teague can do well against. And honestly I think thats a pretty good way of bringing rookies along- put them in position to succeed. So when Woodson got the chance to play him against Earl Boykins he did it and Teague got great results.

[Admin]

Ty Lawson and Dejuan Blair were 2 of the top 5 players in College basketball last season. (In fact I'd say 2 of the top 3) They were simply more ready for the NBA than Teague.

Teague was also excellent last year and he played great in the pre-season for us and he's done well when he's gotten minutes. We're not talking about Acie Law here either, Teague has shown an ability to defend his man, break down the defense and then finish at the rim plus he's also shown great hustle trying to block shots at the rim against bigger players. I guarantee if he were on the Spurs or Jazz that their HOF coaches would get him consistent minutes.

[spotatl]

Do you really want me to post a comparison of Teagues year last year to Lawson and Blair to show how ridiculous it is for you to put teague on the same level? Blair and Lawson were superstars who turned their teams into offensive superpowers. Teague was a good player but he simply shouldn't be compared to those 2 guys.

.

Edited January 15, 2010 by spotatl

[exodus]

to put Teague in against players he thinks Teague can do well against. And honestly I think thats a pretty good way of bringing rookies along- put theI think its pretty clear that Woodson is trying m in position to succeed. So when Woodson got the chance to play him against Earl Boykins he did it and Teague got great results.

You are attempting to find logic where none exists. In 3 games against the Knicks Teague has played a TOTAL of 9 minutes. He has played a total of 6 minutes in two games against the Heat. He played 3 minutes against Minny. And so on and on...

[Admin]

Do you really want me to post a comparison of Teagues year last year to Lawson and Blair to show how ridiculous it is for you to put teague on the same level? Blair and Lawson were superstars who turned their teams into offensive superpowers. Teague was a good player but he simply shouldn't be compared to those 2 guys.

.

Oh boy, yes please do post the stats to show me the great level that Lawson was on compared to Teague.

No wait, let me go ahead and do that for you and you can guess which player is which and then point out how it's "ridiculous to put them on the same level" because outside of 1 statistic they are nearly equals across the board and were drafted back to back.

http://www.nba.com/d...spects/197.html

Games: 31

PPG: 18.8

FG: 180 - 371

FG%: .485

FT: 179 - 219

FT%: .817

3PT: 45 - 102

3PT%: .441

Rebounds: 102

Assists: 110

Steals: 58

Blocks: 20

http://www.nba.com/d...spects/166.html

Games: 35

PPG: 16.6

FG: 182 - 342

FG%: .532

FT: 166 - 208

FT%: .798

3PT: 51 - 108

3PT%: .472

Rebounds: 104

Assists: 230

Steals: 75

Blocks: 5