This was what I was afraid of...

[Supporter]

Our offensive system is an effin JOKE. How many times were we forced to see the ball put in the hands of one of our players just so that they could isolate and either turn it over or force up a tough contested jumper. This is a TEAM game, we can't afford to simply go one on one and let the magic defense relax, when are we going to realize this, it's been almost 5 years but the downfall to team has always been on the offensive side. We won game one because we were hitting jumpers left and right...good, but that's not going to happen every game as we all saw today. If it weren't for some of the crazy jumpers Joe and Jamal hit in the beginning of the game the lead would of been greater than 6 at halftime. Yes, we are a very good team, but shooting tough contested jumpers isn't going to get it done in the playoffs and no matter how hard we fight on defense or no matter how hard we hustle we are going to shoot ourselves in the foot by struggling to score. And it's not like we have a superstar like Melo who is going to force the action, draw fouls and score when the team can't, I just don't see us winning the series let alone the title with this type of gameplan..

[Diesel]

I don't think we gave the magic hope.

In fact, I think we may have put it out there that we can beat them.

Follow this.

This was a replay of game 1. we were up by ten... scoring at will. But notice the circumstance:

[*]Horf had been on the bench since 2 minutes into the game.

[*]Our bigs hadn't gotten into bad foul trouble even though the refs were pro Orlando.

[*]We were in Orlando.

We come out of Orlando doing what every lower seed wants to do.. Stealing one on the opponents court.

Moreover, Orlando didn't show that they could just blow us away. We came back.

Now put this into your computer:

Along with the three points above...

[*]Howard had to play the whole game.

[*]Our guys had BUs who could keep up the pace.

[*]Even with some of the worst reffing and worse coaching, with 2 minutes left, we were down 2.

Somebody will ultimately say... But Diesel they won.

To which I will say, with the DPOY on the home court, shouldn't they have won?

We are making their home games look like our home games. The thing is, we have taken away their three point shooting. As soon as we get our offense to understand that we have to move the ball for 48 minutes, this series is a wrap.

[A31rM]

*cough*ex*cough*cuses*cough*That's what happens when you rely on iso jumpshots. They might fall one game but that ain't gonna get it done in a playoff series.Homecourt doesn't really mean anything to a veteran team and especially not when it's Atl lol.Anyone see how many freaking LOOONG heaves the Hawks did in the first half? 3 went in I believe? This added to the fact that the Magic players were missing wide open shots?It was obvious the magic were a little cold in game 1 and beginning of game 2 when the opposite can be said about Atl.Outlook gloomy.

[Admin]

*cough*ex*cough*cuses*cough*That's what happens when you rely on iso jumpshots. They might fall one game but that ain't gonna get it done in a playoff series.Homecourt doesn't really mean anything to a veteran team and especially not when it's Atl lol.Anyone see how many freaking LOOONG heaves the Hawks did in the first half? 3 went in I believe? This added to the fact that the Magic players were missing wide open shots?It was obvious the magic were a little cold in game 1 and beginning of game 2 when the opposite can be said about Atl.Outlook gloomy.

The Magic WERE a little cold? We've out shot the Magic in both games of this series and on the season as well. If you want to worry about bad shots and cold shooting I'd be a lot more concerned about a team getting consistently out shot by a team that relies heavily on an iso offense. You guys just keep on going out there with Dwight playing 48 minutes a game though and see how long he'll be able to remain effective because I guarantee you there will come a time when he starts to wear down and then what will the Magic do without their FT machine?

[Buzzard]

Our offensive system is an effin JOKE. How many times were we forced to see the ball put in the hands of one of our players just so that they could isolate and either turn it over or force up a tough contested jumper. This is a TEAM game, we can't afford to simply go one on one and let the magic defense relax, when are we going to realize this, it's been almost 5 years but the downfall to team has always been on the offensive side. We won game one because we were hitting jumpers left and right...good, but that's not going to happen every game as we all saw today. If it weren't for some of the crazy jumpers Joe and Jamal hit in the beginning of the game the lead would of been greater than 6 at halftime. Yes, we are a very good team, but shooting tough contested jumpers isn't going to get it done in the playoffs and no matter how hard we fight on defense or no matter how hard we hustle we are going to shoot ourselves in the foot by struggling to score. And it's not like we have a superstar like Melo who is going to force the action, draw fouls and score when the team can't, I just don't see us winning the series let alone the title with this type of gameplan..

We won the first game easily, almost won a ugly *ss 2nd by both teams. The 2nd game was the key for me, if Orlando was going to come out and prove some kind of dominance game 2 was the game. Did not happen. If anything we showed them no matter how bad they want it or hard they play, we will be in every game. And if our shots are falling it will be us who win by 10 and 20 this season. Not them.I really think SVG is missing the boat with one critical match up. Crawford vs Arenas. If he played Arenas against Crawford they might find some offense. And no one really stops Crawford, not Jameer or Redick, his shots are falling or they are not. Hinrich vs Nelson is a tough one for both teams. Edited April 20, 2011 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

*cough*ex*cough*cuses*cough*That's what happens when you rely on iso jumpshots. They might fall one game but that ain't gonna get it done in a playoff series.Homecourt doesn't really mean anything to a veteran team and especially not when it's Atl lol.Anyone see how many freaking LOOONG heaves the Hawks did in the first half? 3 went in I believe? This added to the fact that the Magic players were missing wide open shots?It was obvious the magic were a little cold in game 1 and beginning of game 2 when the opposite can be said about Atl.Outlook gloomy.

Really? Excuses? Really??? We had them on the ropes and Horf didn't play the whole first half...That's not an excuse, that's a fact. Howard played all 48 minutes and they still needed a last minute three pointer to beat us..That's not an excuse, that's a fact.In the two games we have played, we have shut down their three point shooting... and they live by the three...That's not an excuse, that's a fact. If you think Homecourt doesn't mean anything, ask Boston...about Atlanta on the Homecourt!!We were not as good of a team.They became the freakin WORLD CHAMPIONS and they beat the Lakers easier than they beat US. Our Homecourt can be the hardest place in the world to win (for our opponents). Again. That's not an EXCUSE... THATS A FACT!!

[Supporter]

And also, a major reason why were able to stick around in game 2 was because Jamal was just flat out making tough shot after tough shot, he scored 25 points! Can we honestly expect him to keep on this pace to finish the series. I honestly don't and seeing how Joe always struggles when the pressure is on him is a cause for concern. We paid him to be our best player, and so far he hasn't even taken over a game these past 3 years.

[Diesel]

And also, a major reason why were able to stick around in game 2 was because Jamal was just flat out making tough shot after tough shot, he scored 25 points! Can we honestly expect him to keep on this pace to finish the series. I honestly don't and seeing how Joe always struggles when the pressure is on him is a cause for concern. We paid him to be our best player, and so far he hasn't even taken over a game these past 3 years.

Put the agenda away.Joe hit some big shots too. However, Joe was doubled the whole game. He didn't have the luxury of taking Redick like he did in game 1. Hedo was there to be Joe's extra Shadow. What we pay Joe is unimportant right now. What we do as a team is most important. We can't honestly expect Joe to Be KOBE. First off, he doesn't get the calls, second, he doesn't play the same way. If Horf is on the bench and we have Collins on Howard.. we are already down two scorers. All Joe had most of the night was Crawford and Smoove to relieve the pressure. We play 4 on 5 basketball with the hope that our 5 will allow our other players to be better. That means our other players have to be on the floor. Yep... Horf has to be on the floor. When Horf is not out there and Marvin is playing he has to produce. Last night, you saw the worst case scenerio... Horf in foul trouble and Joe doubled. If Horf is on the bench, then the big lineup becomes very weak. The reason we use the big lineup in the first place is so that Al would have an advantage at the 4. NO Al, we're in trouble.

[Buzzard]

Put the agenda away.

Joe hit some big shots too. However, Joe was doubled the whole game. He didn't have the luxury of taking Redick like he did in game 1. Hedo was there to be Joe's extra Shadow. What we pay Joe is unimportant right now. What we do as a team is most important. We can't honestly expect Joe to Be KOBE. First off, he doesn't get the calls, second, he doesn't play the same way. If Horf is on the bench and we have Collins on Howard.. we are already down two scorers. All Joe had most of the night was Crawford and Smoove to relieve the pressure. We play 4 on 5 basketball with the hope that our 5 will allow our other players to be better. That means our other players have to be on the floor. Yep... Horf has to be on the floor. When Horf is not out there and Marvin is playing he has to produce.

Last night, you saw the worst case scenerio... Horf in foul trouble and Joe doubled. If Horf is on the bench, then the big lineup becomes very weak. The reason we use the big lineup in the first place is so that Al would have an advantage at the 4. NO Al, we're in trouble.

That is it man. Horford helps relieve the pressure on both ends of the floor and when he is at the four, he is a all-star type player that Orlando has no real answer for. Edited April 20, 2011 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

So what is the contingency plan when Horf goes to the bench?

I say we have to abandon the big lineup the way that LD plays it.

I say we keep Collins in there at the 5, but we have to move Smoove to the 4 and play Marvin at the 3.

Or we move Joe to the 3 and play Craw at the 2.

[*]We can't keep Smoove on the wing.. we need rebounds.

[*]I know it messes with the Joe mismatch at the 2 but they will double him anyway.

[*]LD has a terrible habit of using Craw as a PG. I say, play Craw as a 2 and Hinrich or Teague as PG.

[Supporter]

Put the agenda away.Joe hit some big shots too. However, Joe was doubled the whole game. He didn't have the luxury of taking Redick like he did in game 1. Hedo was there to be Joe's extra Shadow. What we pay Joe is unimportant right now. What we do as a team is most important. We can't honestly expect Joe to Be KOBE. First off, he doesn't get the calls, second, he doesn't play the same way. If Horf is on the bench and we have Collins on Howard.. we are already down two scorers. All Joe had most of the night was Crawford and Smoove to relieve the pressure. We play 4 on 5 basketball with the hope that our 5 will allow our other players to be better. That means our other players have to be on the floor. Yep... Horf has to be on the floor. When Horf is not out there and Marvin is playing he has to produce. Last night, you saw the worst case scenerio... Horf in foul trouble and Joe doubled. If Horf is on the bench, then the big lineup becomes very weak. The reason we use the big lineup in the first place is so that Al would have an advantage at the 4. NO Al, we're in trouble.

Diesel, this is the same guy who once averaged 25, 5, and 5 while getting to the line alot more and shooting kobesque 47%, he was able to get 25 points on 20 shots or fewer most days. I honestly think that Joe's prime days are over, watching tapes of his younger days you could catch glimpses of athleticism, the ability to use either hand, that silky jumper. How can you argue when Joe in previous years used to DEMOLISH the magic for 40+ points even with DWIGHT in the game. Simply put, we can't depend on Joe to save us in the playoffs anymore, the guy was on the verge of becoming a top 10 player, but then something happened and he is what we saw yesterday, 14 points on 15 shots, that aint gonna cut it.Just in case you have forgotten, take a look at how smooth and quick this guy was and then think about the game he played yesterday, passive and slow:

Edited April 20, 2011 by Supporter

[Admin]

Diesel, this is the same guy who once averaged 25, 5, and 5 while getting to the line alot more and shooting kobesque 47%, he was able to get 25 points on 20 shots or fewer most days. I honestly think that Joe's prime days are over, watching tapes of his younger days you could catch glimpses of athleticism, the ability to use either hand, that silky jumper. How can you argue when Joe in previous years used to DEMOLISH the magic for 40+ points even with DWIGHT in the game. Simply put, we can't depend on Joe to save us in the playoffs anymore, the guy was on the verge of becoming a top 10 player, but then something happened and he is what we saw yesterday, 14 points on 15 shots, that aint gonna cut it.Just in case you have forgotten, take a look at how smooth and quick this guy was and then think about the game he played yesterday, passive and slow:

Not that I don't agree that Joe has lost a lot of his athleticism but Joe has scored 40 points (exactly 40) on the Magic once as a member of the Hawks in the regular season. He has 5 games against them as a Hawk where he has scored 30 ore more points in the regular season. That's out of a total of 23 regular season games played against them. http://bkref.com/tiny/HH3EX

[Buzzard]

Diesel, this is the same guy who once averaged 25, 5, and 5 while getting to the line alot more and shooting kobesque 47%, he was able to get 25 points on 20 shots or fewer most days. I honestly think that Joe's prime days are over, watching tapes of his younger days you could catch glimpses of athleticism, the ability to use either hand, that silky jumper. How can you argue when Joe in previous years used to DEMOLISH the magic for 40+ points even with DWIGHT in the game. Simply put, we can't depend on Joe to save us in the playoffs anymore, the guy was on the verge of becoming a top 10 player, but then something happened and he is what we saw yesterday, 14 points on 15 shots, that aint gonna cut it.Just in case you have forgotten, take a look at how smooth and quick this guy was and then think about the game he played yesterday, passive and slow:

JJ is older and a little slower but to blame him for that is like blaming Garnet or Kobe for having a bad game because they're older and slower. At the level we want to play at, team offense and defense wins games. Celtics have been pushed by a NY team that has only two real players with Billups missing so much time. Lakers are being pushed also by Memphis. Point is Celtics and Lakers will advance in all likelihood and we have a good chance also as long as we play team offense and defense.Now if I was given a choice of JJ at 27 vs JJ at 30 something, its 27 all day long. Same could be said I am sure of Garnet or Kobe. I also remember being a lottery team with JJ in his prime. My point is Smoove and Horf both played with JJ in or very near his prime, they should know by his example that team wins games not I.If I did it, we never would have been a lottery team once JJ was acquired. Blaming JJ for this loss when it is so clear we were hurt for multiple reasons is no different than try to say Howard won this last game all by himself. Neither happened.It was a tight ugly offensive game by both teams; and in those last five minutes, Howard did not cause his teammates to make those jumpers, anymore than JJ caused his to miss. Edited April 20, 2011 by Buzzard

[Supporter]

Not that I don't agree that Joe has lost a lot of his athleticism but Joe has scored 40 points (exactly 40) on the Magic once as a member of the Hawks in the regular season. He has 5 games against them as a Hawk where he has scored 30 ore more points in the regular season. That's out of a total of 23 regular season games played against them.

http://bkref.com/tiny/HH3EX

Yeh, maybe I over exaggerated in trying to prove my point: which is that Joe was able to play at a superstar level against the magic, but in his recent years he's been playing nothing close to that level.

JJ is older and a little slower but to blame him for that is like blaming Garnet or Kobe for having a bad game because they're older and slower. At the level we want to play at, team offense and defense wins games.

Celtics have been pushed by a NY team that has only two real players with Billups missing so much time. Lakers are being pushed also by Memphis. Point is Celtics and Lakers will advance in all likelihood and we have a good chance also as long as we play team offense and defense.

Now if I was given a choice of JJ at 27 vs JJ at 30 something, its 27 all day long. Same could be said I am sure of Garnet or Kobe. I also remember being a lottery team with JJ in his prime. My point is Smoove and Horf both played with JJ in or very near his prime, they should know by his example that team wins games not I.

If I did it, we never would have been a lottery team once JJ was acquired. Blaming JJ for this loss when it is so clear we were hurt for multiple reasons is no different than try to say Howard won this last game all by himself. Neither happened.

It was a tight ugly offensive game by both teams; and In those last five minutes, Howard did not cause his teammates to make those jumpers, anymore than JJ caused his to miss.

Yes I agree with your main point that a team game wins championship and that the whole team needs to be well in order to win, but that doesn't mean that JJ doesn't need to play like a superstar. And it's not like Joe was forcing up 30 shots to get his points back in the day, he was doing everything efficiently as well as getting to the line alot. Only in recent years has he turned into a volume scorer who avoids contact. Bottom line is that if we want to win the Title we need a superstar who can take over games when the team is lacking focus, that's what Joe should be doing, and he has proven that he could do it in the past, but it's something that he just has too much trouble doing nowadays. Give this team 05-06 JJ and I'll be willing to bet that we win game 2 yesterday.

[Diesel]

Diesel, this is the same guy who once averaged 25, 5, and 5 while getting to the line alot more and shooting kobesque 47%, he was able to get 25 points on 20 shots or fewer most days. I honestly think that Joe's prime days are over, watching tapes of his younger days you could catch glimpses of athleticism, the ability to use either hand, that silky jumper. How can you argue when Joe in previous years used to DEMOLISH the magic for 40+ points even with DWIGHT in the game. Simply put, we can't depend on Joe to save us in the playoffs anymore, the guy was on the verge of becoming a top 10 player, but then something happened and he is what we saw yesterday, 14 points on 15 shots, that aint gonna cut it.Just in case you have forgotten, take a look at how smooth and quick this guy was and then think about the game he played yesterday, passive and slow:

In the playoffs. Teams focus on Joe. You see what happened when they lost focus on Joe in game 1.The thing is that Orlando's plan is to get Horf in foul trouble and double Joe.They know that Marvin won't kill them.They know that Collins won't score.They will live with Smoove and Hinrich.Fortunately, Crawford has been contract shopping!!! He's making up for a lackluster season when the hot lights are on. However, Marvin has to hit a shot...Horf just has to stay away from foul trouble. Hopefully, better reffing will be a difference.

[Crank]

And also, a major reason why were able to stick around in game 2 was because Jamal was just flat out making tough shot after tough shot, he scored 25 points! Can we honestly expect him to keep on this pace to finish the series. I honestly don't and seeing how Joe always struggles when the pressure is on him is a cause for concern. We paid him to be our best player, and so far he hasn't even taken over a game these past 3 years.

I dont know about this Supporter Jamal just isnt playing well for the playoffs hes been playing well for the entire month of April . Considering hes not really going against good perimeter defenders I expect him to be locked in for the rest of this series. The probem I saw in game two was that Joe didnt adjust to the situation and use his help When Craw has it going like that I feel that Joe shouldnt need to work as had as he was trying to fight that double all the time he should be playing off of Craw by becoming the spot up shooter in the corner .

[Admin]

Good times...

[Supporter]

Oh how naive I once was....supporter big boy now