Dumb Josh is Back!

[WakaFlocka]

Some of y'all are beyond ridiculous. It's always hilarious coming here after a loss like this and seeing the same typical "Josh is soooo dumb OMGGGG", "Does Joe have ANY emotions/leadership?!?", "Larry Drew should be fired!!", etc. threads like this.

I said it's one game because well, it is... You're telling me that any team that's ever won a championship hasn't had awful stretches during their respective seasons? That's BS and you all know it, every team in every sport goes through their share of struggles. It's how they respond that defines them. Al going down was a big deal for us and the Hawks reeled off 4 straight wins 'till tonight, can y'all honestly say you expected that? Not a chance in hell, that was big for us to play as well as we have since our All Star center went down. We're not going to win 'em all, so let's all relax and see how the team responds now.

[High5]

It's not like he played so much different last night than he had been playing. The jumpers just stopped falling like everyone knew they would, and Josh has no conscience. When he misses it only encourages him to shoot more.

[Wretch]

LOL....it was cute that you put the pictures of those teams holding the trophy (you forgot the Heat one), but that is exactly my point, even championship teams lose games that they "should have won". Its not how you start, its how you finish, and the 76ers proved that tonight, we just have to prove it when it really matters, and that is in the playoffs. Believe me I am pissed about the loss too but now is not the time for this doom and gloom sh**, to much basketball left.

The Heat championship picture is in there. Your point only reinforces my point. ALL TEAMS LOSE GAMES. Only an idiot would sit here and get mad about every game lost. So...just by that logic alone, you have no argument. Literally, I'm not arguing with you on that. No one is.

What people like you fail to realize though is that there is more to wins and losses than just wins and losses. A whole lot more. The Lakers will lose a game to the Bobcats. The Heat will lose to us. It's what you take away from the game. And this is where you really lose the "one game" argument - because if you take away key elements from this game:

• Good start
  
• Collapse after the other team makes adjustments
  
• Lack of energy
  
• Head hanging
  
• Offensive ineptitude late
  
• Confused offense
  
• Lack of leadership
  
• Outrebounded
  
• Outrebounded
  
• Outrebounded
  
• Jumpshots not falling
  

You take that away from this game, what you have is a very similar story. This core has been the same forever now. It has the same strengths and weaknesses. It follows the same pattern every year. What's more concerning is that we have the same management style, but apparently....cheaper. Anyone that cannot see the pattern here is only fooling themselves.

Teams that get to the ECF's and Finals and win championships, they win more of these "one game" games than we do. They win them differently and consistently. Our story is also one of consistency - year in and year out for the nearly 3 decades I have watched them, they are consistently mediocre. The real problem is that there is no one guy on this team and there is no personality to it. There is no superstar. There is no guy to, when all else fails, WILL the team to victory.

As for this guy:

Dennis Rodman could shoot the 3. That's not what won Chicago championships. He focused on the areas of his game that made him most valuable. Josh Smith can hit a wide open jumper - occasionally. He's not a good jump shooter. How is that helping us?

...and do you people not understand that defenders are sagging off of him? They WANT him to shoot it. They're probably told to let him shoot it. They will live with Josh practicing jumpers all day long. In the simplest terms, that means we should limit how many he shoots.

3 - 4 a game, with his feet set, within the flow of the offense = no problem.

Forcing long shots with 15+ seconds on the clock = giving away a possession.

Dribble, fadeaway = giving away a possession.

You would not see this with the Spurs, Lakers, Celtics or any serious contender. Josh's *ss would have been benched or traded. The problem is we don't have a coach or a player that can keep him in check. It's not hate. It's a strong desire to see smart basketball played. Simple as that.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Wretch

[CODHAWKSFAN]

The Heat championship picture is in there. Your point only reinforces my point. ALL TEAMS LOSE GAMES. Only an idiot would sit here and get mad about every game lost. So...just by that logic alone, you have no argument. Literally, I'm not arguing with you on that. No one is.

What people like you fail to realize though is that there is more to wins and losses than just wins and losses. A whole lot more. The Lakers will lose a game to the Bobcats. The Heat will lose to us. It's what you take away from the game. And this is where you really lose the "one game" argument - because if you take away key elements from this game:

• Good start
  
• Collapse after the other team makes adjustments
  
• Lack of energy
  
• Head hanging
  
• Offensive ineptitude late
  
• Confused offense
  
• Lack of leadership
  
• Outrebounded
  
• Outrebounded
  
• Outrebounded
  
• Jumpshots not falling
  

You take that away from this game, what you have is a very similar story. This core has been the same forever now. It has the same strengths and weaknesses. It follows the same pattern every year. What's more concerning is that we have the same management style, but apparently....cheaper. Anyone that cannot see the pattern here is only fooling themselves.

Teams that get to the ECF's and Finals and win championships, they win more of these "one game" games than we do. They win them differently and consistently. Our story is also one of consistency - year in and year out for the nearly 3 decades I have watched them, they are consistently mediocre. The real problem is that there is no one guy on this team and there is no personality to it. There is no superstar. There is no guy to, when all else fails, WILL the team to victory.

As for this guy:

Dennis Rodman could shoot the 3. That's not what won Chicago championships. He focused on the areas of his game that made him most valuable. Josh Smith can hit a wide open jumper - occasionally. He's not a good jump shooter. How is that helping us?

...and do you people not understand that defenders are sagging off of him? They WANT him to shoot it. They're probably told to let him shoot it. They will live with Josh practicing jumpers all day long. In the simplest terms, that means we should limit how many he shoots.

3 - 4 a game, with his feet set, within the flow of the offense = no problem.

Forcing long shots with 15+ seconds on the clock = giving away a possession.

Dribble, fadeaway = giving away a possession.

You would not see this with the Spurs, Lakers, Celtics or any serious contender. Josh's *ss would have been benched or traded. The problem is we don't have a coach or a player that can keep him in check. It's not hate. It's a strong desire to see smart basketball played. Simple as that.

First of all, who said that we were supposed to beat the 76ers (one of the better teams int the east) last night, the odds of us winning the game last night were very slim in the first place. You talk as though the 6ers are some push over team that we were supposed to crush and dominate on their homecourt. The sixers generally have have our number for a couple of years straight.

Second you are missing my point, I am not arguing simply wins and loses here, I completely understand what goes into them and the factors that should be taken from a game. WHAT I AM SAYING to you is and what "people like me realize" is that there will be games when the players and coaches alike will f**k up, and that is a pattern throught the NBA, and sports in general, you move on and hope they get their sh^t together the next go around. Not comparing (nor defending) Josh's or coaches decession making last night, but how many times have you seen Carmelo shoot his team out of wins?

To your other point, "Hawks are cheap" what is the Knicks record? Did Carmelo or Staudemire (superstars) WILL their team to victory last night against the baby Bucks, or were they pouting frustrated and trying to start fights with Delfino and Jennings? Did Kobe WILL his championship team against the Magic last night or did they basically get blown out? Did the star studed group of superstars (Blake, CP3, Billups) WILL their team to victory against the Timberwolfves? Or how about a few other stars in Durant and Westbrook WILLING, there guys to beat the worst team in the NBA, the Wizards?

Don't get me wrong here Wretch I now you have been a fan for a while and have stuck with the team through thick and thin but were you this passionate when the Hawks beat the Bulls, or the Heat this year? Or when the guys WILLED themselves to victory after being down by 18 with 3 min left in the third quarter?

We lost to the better team last night, the team made some awful decisions took some very bad shots and played sloppy ball in the second half, but it is not the end of the world. You guys can take this loss and run with it if you want to, I am gonna get over it (maybe after a win tonight), keep it pushing and hope that they win the next 4 or 5 games (in a row).

Edited January 21, 2012 by CODHAWKSFAN

[Wretch]

First of all, who said that we were supposed to beat the 76ers (one of the better teams int the east) last night, the odds of us winning the game last night were very slim in the first place. You talk as though the 6ers are some push over team that we were supposed to crush and dominate on their homecourt. The sixers generally have have our number for a couple of years straight.

Second you are missing my point, I am not arguing that wins and loses here, I completely understand what goes into them and the factors that should be taken from a game. WHAT I AM SAYING to you is and what "people like me realize" is that there will be games when the players and coaches alike will f**k up, and that is a pattern throught the NBA, and sports in general, you move on and hope they get their sh^t together the next go around. Not comparing (nor defending) Josh's or coaches decession making last night, but how many times have you seen Carmelo shoot his team out of wins?

To your other point, "Hawks are cheap" what is the Knicks record? Did Carmelo or Staudemire (superstars) WILL their team to victory last night against the baby Bucks, or were they pouting frustrated and trying to start fights with Delfino and Jennings? Did Kobe WILL his championship team against the Magic last night or did they basically get blown out? Did the star studed group of superstars (Blake, CP3, Billups) WILL their team to victory against the Timberwolfves? Or how about a few other stars in Durant and Westbrook WILLING, there guys to beat the worst team in the NBA, the Wizards?

Don't get me wrong here Wretch I now you have been a fan for a while and have stuck with the team through thick and thin but were you this passionate when the Hawks beat the Bulls, or the Heat this year? Or when the guys WILLED themselves to victory after being down by 18 with 3 min left in the third quarter?

We lost to the better team last night, the team made some awful decisions took some very bad shots and played sloppy ball in the second half, but it is not the end of the world. You guys can take this loss and run with it if you want to, I am gonna get over it (maybe after a win tonight), keep it pushing and hope that they win the next 4 or 5 games (in a row).

First, don't lump me in with the angry/jaded fans that think everything this team does is bad. Did I cheer when we beat Miami? Chicago? Man.......................................seriously? Seriously? For supporting this team, I have been the laughing stock for decades before Josh Smith could even dribble a basketball (which apparently he still can't do). Just drop that whole thing because it doesn't apply to me. I've supported these guys every step of the way - even Marvin who I refused to truly criticize up until only about a season ago. Don't even take the conversation there. You've got the wrong guy for that sort of conversation.

Second, who are you trying to convince that there are games where our players and coaches screw up? Seriously? You learn that the first couple of seasons watching any sports. You can't win them all? I learned that back in the 80's. Again, you've got the wrong fan for that sort of conversation.

What I said still stands. We have a right to be upset about last night. And the similar Chicago lapse, as well as that game against Miami. We beat the Big 3, in their house, and we can't beat Bosh and a bunch of scrubs at home? Last night, we played outstanding the 1st half on both sides of the floor, then we failed to make an adjustment, could not match energy, and in the words of our own coach we "quit."

It happens to every team, but it happens to this team more often. If it didn't, we'd be winning games like this. We'd have one of the better records in the league LATE in the season. We'd have made it out of the 2nd round by now. Hell, it wasn't long ago that we were talking about how many blowout losses this team has had as opposed to the rest of the league's elite.

Say what you want. Same team. Same mistakes. Same results. Correct me if I'm wrong come the playoffs.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Wretch

[Wretch]

To your other point, "Hawks are cheap" what is the Knicks record? Did Carmelo or Staudemire (superstars) WILL their team to victory last night against the baby Bucks, or were they pouting frustrated and trying to start fights with Delfino and Jennings? Did Kobe WILL his championship team against the Magic last night or did they basically get blown out? Did the star studed group of superstars (Blake, CP3, Billups) WILL their team to victory against the Timberwolfves? Or how about a few other stars in Durant and Westbrook WILLING, there guys to beat the worst team in the NBA, the Wizards?

Talk to me when the Hawks are playing in the conference finals. Compare Kobe or Billups when this franchise has a finals appearance. You've got no ground to stand on here.

We'd give up any guy on this team for any of those stars you mentioned (obviously save for the washed up cats).

[DJlaysitup]

Everybody loses games. This is much bigger than one game.

I'm tired of settling for a mediocre team. No excuses. Win the games you're supposed to win. The game tonight was indicative of who we are and who we have been for as long as I have watched this club - and that's a pretty long time.

Oh please! "this is bigger...?" Settle down.

The guys probably didn't want to be in Philly on a Friday night anyway..

They put up a great effort early - up by 8 at halftime - and fizzled down the stretch. No big deal.

[CODHAWKSFAN]

First, don't lump me in with the angry/jaded fans that think everything this team does is bad. Did I cheer when we beat Miami? Chicago? Man.......................................seriously? Seriously? For supporting this team, I have been the laughing stock for decades before Josh Smith could even dribble a basketball (which apparently he still can't do). Just drop that whole thing because it doesn't apply to me. I've supported these guys every step of the way - even Marvin who I refused to truly criticize up until only about a season ago. Don't even take the conversation there. You've got the wrong guy for that sort of conversation.

Second, who are you trying to convince that there are games where our players and coaches screw up? Seriously? You learn that the first couple of seasons watching any sports. You can't win them all? I learned that back in the 80's. Again, you've got the wrong fan for that sort of conversation.

What I said still stands. We have a right to be upset about last night. And the similar Chicago lapse, as well as that game against Miami. We beat the Big 3, in their house, and we can't beat Bosh and a bunch of scrubs at home? Last night, we played outstanding the 1st half on both sides of the floor, then we failed to make an adjustment, could not match energy, and in the words of our own coach we "quit."

It happens to every team, but it happens to this team more often. If it didn't, we'd be winning games like this. We'd have one of the better records in the league LATE in the season. We'd have made it out of the 2nd round by now. Hell, it wasn't long ago that we were talking about how many blowout losses this team has had as opposed to the rest of the league's elite.

Say what you want. Same team. Same mistakes. Same results. Correct me if I'm wrong come the playoffs.

Oh please man....no one is questioning you fandom, how long you have been a fan, etc... my question was just that, a question (not an attack). I personally feel like you and some others are overeacting to a loss that we all new was coming. Plus Im sick of the doom and gloom threads whenever there is a loss. For the third straight time, YES we have a right to be upset about the loss, but there is a difference in being upset over a loss and blowing up the team and coach over a loss. It kills me how this board lights up like a Christmas tree when we lose, but there is sort of a light applause when the team wins, as if we have won championships. This team hasnt regressed since what 06-07?

AGAIN....to me, what this team does in the playoffs is what really matters to me over wins AND losses in the regular season. Everything else is done for experience and attention.

[Wretch]

Oh please! "this is bigger...?" Settle down.

The guys probably didn't want to be in Philly on a Friday night anyway..

They put up a great effort early - up by 8 at halftime - and fizzled down the stretch. No big deal.

Welcome to the argument. Goodbye.

Bookmark the thread. Wake me when I'm wrong and we've made the final four of the NBA.

[CODHAWKSFAN]

Talk to me when the Hawks are playing in the conference finals. Compare Kobe or Billups when this franchise has a finals appearance. You've got no ground to stand on here.

We'd give up any guy on this team for any of those stars you mentioned (obviously save for the washed up cats).

AGAIN....taking my comments out of context, of course we would want these guys on our team, who wouldn't? What I am saying and what you say, that you have known since the 80's is that players and coaches have dumb games with bad decisions being made. These guys arent going to carry or will their teams to victory every night (that is my point). So far we have beatin the teams that we were supposed to beat, (except houston and depleted miami) then some. And have a pretty decent record.

I would be happy to continue this dicussion in the playoffs.

Edited January 21, 2012 by CODHAWKSFAN

[HawksFan87]

How dare josh smith have a bad game who does he think he is?

[Bahamut]

Dumb Josh is back and he's dumber than ever! Maybe he'll wise up in Milwaukee.