Stop talking about Joe's "Legacy", talk about Horford's.

[Robdawg]

Rob you don't know anything about the Hawks. Just cuz you told me about the site doesn't make you an expert. You have a mental stability to match that of Smoove's, you both act like you're 5 years old. Trying to say "keep things mature." You're being hypocritical due to the fact that your immaturity level is through the roof. You didn't even read the statement I made previously, I said Horf was only an all-star in the east due to lack of quality in the East. But that doesn't discredit him, he is the only player with heart that actually cares about the team.

Firstly, let me say that the fact you posted an 'insult' over a message board shows a lot about your own maturity level. Especially against someone who has a different opinion. And while you have been a 'fan' for longer that doesn't necessarily mean you know the team better. This is false. Secondly, I did notice what you said about Al being the only player on the team with heart. This is also false. Zaza, Smoove (although he made bad mistakes), and others wanted this team to succeed. That is very clear with their body language last season. Now, you said that Al has a 'legacy' (as in the 'go to leader') with the Hawks...this is also false for now. This is not University of Florida basketball. Al is a vital piece but he DID NOT LEAD this team. If you remember their demeanor when Joe was here it was very submissive until recently. I'm sure Al believes he is a leader (since he was the leader of the Dominican Republic basketball team) but he had a role while JJ was here and he fit into it. JJ was the leader of our team (even though most of us hated it) that's why Smoove wanted out. With JJ gone we will see who will finally have a legacy with this team. And right now Smoove is winning.

[ATLscrubLove]

Al is the reason this team has been so soft. How can the so called leader get other guys to toughen up when he's the one leading the charge against physical play?

................. That statement is laughable.

[Robdawg]

................. That statement is laughable.

How is that laughable? He was very soft in the 2011 playoff series against Chicago. That was a very weak series for him. Zaza, Ivan Johnson, and maybe Stevenson are the toughest players on the team today.

[ATLscrubLove]

Firstly, let me say that the fact you posted an 'insult' over a message board shows a lot about your own maturity level. Especially against someone who has a different opinion. And while you have been a 'fan' for longer that doesn't necessarily mean you know the team better. This is false. Secondly, I did notice what you said about Al being the only player on the team with heart. This is also false. Zaza, Smoove (although he made bad mistakes), and others wanted this team to succeed. That is very clear with their body language last season. Now, you said that Al has a 'legacy' (as in the 'go to leader') with the Hawks...this is also false for now. This is not University of Florida basketball. Al is a vital piece but he DID NOT LEAD this team. If you remember their demeanor when Joe was here it was very submissive until recently. I'm sure Al believes he is a leader (since he was the leader of the Dominican Republic basketball team) but he had a role while JJ was here and he fit into it. JJ was the leader of our team (even though most of us hated it) that's why Smoove wanted out. With JJ gone we will see who will finally have a legacy with this team. And right now Smoove is winning.

LOL, you don't really watch very many games so how do you know? You only know what other people tell you, i.e. on this site. Also, saying you have the mental/emotional stability of a 5 year old isn't an insult... If it's true. Edited August 2, 2012 by ATLscrubLove

[MaceCase]

It's not "just" the All-Star selections, although 6 > 2, and I frankly don't see Al finishing his career with more than 3 or maybe 4. It's also the fact that Sekou wrote several blog posts over on AJC talking about how JJ was the guy on the Hawks that opposing coaches gameplanned against, not Josh or Al. And that in the Chicago series, the Bulls strategy was simple: Get the ball out of JJ's hands. They did and we got our asses kicked. I'd love to know when an opposing coach has ever gone Jordan Rules on Al. It hasn't happened, because it isn't necessary with him. He simply doesn't have the offensive repertoire to take over a game the way that JJ can if you give him an inch of breathing room. Only people who are blind or disingenuous can deny that for the past 7 years, JJ has gotten more defensive attention than anyone else on the Hawks. He was almost constantly double-teamed, and was frequently swarmed whenever he got anywhere inside the three-point line. You can't say that about Josh and Al, who have been given an absurd number of open midrange looks during their time with the Hawks, and who often aren't double-teamed even when they get the ball in the post. If JJ got close to the basket, he was swarmed by 3 or even 4 defenders. And oh yeah - six All-Star appearances, including one as a starter. Yeah, I think coaches might have just a weeeee bit more respect for JJ's game than Al's. Just like The Dark Knight got just a weeeeee bit better reviews than Gigli.

So coaches only gameplan against offenses. Okay, good to know. I'll expect that you're firmly in the camp that the Hawks will be terrible next year and if they actually do happen to win.......well it's because coaches didn't gameplan against them. As far as the All Stars....... *sigh* there we go putting weight on that meaning something.....despite it being based on positions in a conference rather than a ranking of top players leaguewide...and Joe benefitting from the derth at his position....but oh wait, no! We aren't putting weight on it because Al was one too....twice....but 6 is greater than 2 anyway.....if we were to care about an exhibition game! Despite 1 coming a year before Al was even in the League....another 2 when he was a rookie and sophomore....then the last when he was out for the year. But Al got his in less years in the league! Do coaches respect his development better? Well they'd have to, they waited 5 years before David Stern had to make Joe one. Whatever.

[ATLscrubLove]

How is that laughable? He was very soft in the 2011 playoff series against Chicago. That was a very weak series for him. Zaza, Ivan Johnson, and maybe Stevenson are the toughest players on the team today.

Because he had to play against Noah, who knows Horf and his moves like the back of his hand. So he had a bad series... Everyone on the team did. It's not his fault he has to play Center because the team is too cheap to go out and get an actual center. Edited August 2, 2012 by ATLscrubLove

[Robdawg]

LOL, you don't really watch very many games so how do you know? You only know what other people tell you, i.e. on this site. Also, saying you have the mental/emotional stability of a 5 year old isn't an insult... If it's true.

i'll leave it at this. we have very different views on Al but we will find out what leadership material he has this year.

Because he had to play against Noah, who knows Horf and his moves like the back of his hand. So he had a bad series... Everyone on the team did. It's not his fault he has to play Center because the team is too cheap to go out and good an actual center.

Teague was a monster in that series, especially on defense against Rose. That series is the reason why he starts for us today. Joe also had his last great game for us in that series. He even carried us for a game or two. Edited August 2, 2012 by Robdawg

[Jody23]

i'll leave it at this. we have very different views on Al but we will find out what leadership material he has this year. Teague was a monster in that series, especially on defense against Rose. That series is the reason why he starts for us today. Joe also had his last great game for us in that series. He even carried us for a game or two. even Hinrich did well hitting open 3's and on defense.

Hinrich didn't play in the Chicago series.

[Robdawg]

Hinrich didn't play in the Chicago series.

my bad.

[Nicholasp27]

That's from 2006. NOthing has changed.

The first weakness listed is lack of mid-range jumper. Horf led the league in that shot so I would say its def not a negative...that is from college and is outdated

[Nicholasp27]

he's barely an all-star which is mostly due to the fact that there is no depth at 5 in the east (with the exception of D12). Smoove would've been an all-star if he was in a similar situation as Horford. I'm not hating on Al, just being realistic. Al and Josh will have a chance to finally get the green light with Joe gone so this is the season we'll see what they are made of.

Last I checked ALL NBA team was for both east and west and only the top THREE at each position make it...

[niremetal]

So coaches only gameplan against offenses. Okay, good to know. I'll expect that you're firmly in the camp that the Hawks will be terrible next year and if they actually do happen to win.......well it's because coaches didn't gameplan against them. As far as the All Stars....... *sigh* there we go putting weight on that meaning something.....despite it being based on positions in a conference rather than a ranking of top players leaguewide...and Joe benefitting from the derth at his position....but oh wait, no! We aren't putting weight on it because Al was one too....twice....but 6 is greater than 2 anyway.....if we were to care about an exhibition game! Despite 1 coming a year before Al was even in the League....another 2 when he was a rookie and sophomore....then the last when he was out for the year. But Al got his in less years in the league! Do coaches respect his development better? Well they'd have to, they waited 5 years before David Stern had to make Joe one. Whatever.

Trying to come up with excuses to minimize the importance six All-Star appearances (five by coaches, despite your best efforts to make it sound like it was only by the Grace of Stern that he made it) is pretty much a textbook example of hating. Oh, and please, I'm begging you. Find me an article talking about how teams gameplan for Al's defense. Or Josh's for that matter. Neither of those guys rule the paint in a way that requires teams to alter their offensive gameplans to contend with their "patrolling the paint" defense. The only guys in the NBA who fit that description in the past decade have been Dwight, Duncan, and Big Ben. What matters most in the NBA is on-ball defense, and neither Josh nor Al is an elite on-ball defender. In fact, I would argue that JJ was and is a better on-ball defender for his position than Al and Josh are for theirs - regardless of whether you put Josh at the 3 or the 4 or Al at the 4 or the 5. Edited August 2, 2012 by niremetal

[ATLscrubLove]

Trying to come up with excuses to minimize the importance six All-Star appearances (five by coaches, despite your best efforts to make it sound like it was only by the Grace of Stern that he made it) is pretty much a textbook example of hating. Oh, and please, I'm begging you. Find me an article talking about how teams gameplan for Al's defense. Or Josh's for that matter. Neither of those guys rule the paint in a way that requires teams to alter their offensive gameplans to contend with their "patrolling the paint" defense. The only guys in the NBA who fit that description in the past decade have been Dwight, Duncan, and Big Ben. What matters most in the NBA is on-ball defense, and neither Josh nor Al is an elite on-ball defender. In fact, I would argue that JJ was and is a better on-ball defender for his position than Al and Josh are for theirs - regardless of whether you put Josh at the 3 or the 4 or Al at the 4 or the 5.

JJ was not a very good defender in general but yea on ball he did at least keep guys in front of him for the most part so I agree there. I don't really count Joe as an allstar though, people come out to see allstars... People didn't show up to see Joe... Heck Smoove can sell tickets just by dunks and blocks so in my opinion he is an allstar.

[Robdawg]

Last I checked ALL NBA team was for both east and west and only the top THREE at each position make it...

Al is a great center, i'm not taking anything from that. All i'm saying is after D12 and maybe Tyson Chandler there a few true centers in the east. Al's performance and effort at this position was the reason he was an all-star in previous years. Now with Chandler in the east Al is gonna have to play at an even higher level (which I think he can) to get the nod, even in a reserve role.

[Jizzle]

By his dominance I meant lack there of sometimes in the paint. Which is why he obviously needs to be a PF. He is the only player on the team with heart and a drive to win. Aside from maybe Zaza. if he's just going to shoot 15 footers why does it matter if he's a PF or C it's not like he's going to take PFs to the post bc his post game sucks and most PFs are fast enough to stay with him

By his dominance I meant lack there of sometimes in the paint. Which is why he obviously needs to be a PF. He is the only player on the team with heart and a drive to win. Aside from maybe Zaza. if he's just going to shoot 15 footers why does it matter if he's a PF or C it's not like he's going to take PFs to the post bc his post game sucks and most PFs are fast enough to stay with him

[Jizzle]

I'm sorry but Horford is a star, he's been to allstar games for his play in the paint. There aren't any good bigs in the east aside from Howard but Horford is still deserving nonetheless.

You killed ur own statement theres no one else I'm the east watch this year if Howard is still in the east there Hibbert and if they call KG as a center that's a wrap for Horfords Allstar games

[Jizzle]

You can't lead players that don't want to be led. NO one can get Josh to get over his own hump but Josh, do you think he really listens to anyone? NO, he will continue to put up air balls from the perimeter. This team is nothing without Horf, even if no one sets their game plan in accordance of his skill set. This team would've never made the playoffs without him on this team... At least initially ( 2008 )

Out of ever post on this thread this has to be the dumbest of them all THEY WENT TO THE PLAYOFFS WITHOUT HIM LAST SEASON dumbass !!!

[ATLscrubLove]

Out of ever post on this thread this has to be the dumbest of them all Learn how to read, I didn't say this year I said "AT LEAST IN 2008." Who's the dumb ass again? THEY WENT TO THE PLAYOFFS WITHOUT HIM LAST SEASON dumbass !!!

Who's the dumbass again? I said in 2008 not recently. You should really learn how to read you scrub.

[ATLscrubLove]

Jizzle you really are incompetent. You continue to highlight some of my comments but are failing to actually read them, you may want to do that next time.

Edited August 3, 2012 by ATLscrubLove

[niremetal]

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