Blessings to Danny!

[Ruckus]

So continue bitching about it. We all love hearing it so much. You have the attitude that no matter what we do we will fail. So what's the point in trying? It will be tough and change is needed, we all agree. But, it is possible. So why allow yourself to be so pessimistic?

Edited January 11, 2013 by HawkFan

[Wretch]

Adding to that...

I'm discouraged that Ferry seems to think he will build a contender through FA and trades. If it turns out that I'm wrong, that's great. Hopefully it turns out that way. But history has been repeated here time and time again, and I'm not putting any faith in that changing until I see it.

I agree and disagree, but Hots makes some hard hitting blunt and truthful statements some times. I'm not discouraged by anything Ferry has done. I think if you luck up, you can get the right trade that gets you the talent you need. I've seen it happen and we do have assets.

What is not likely to happen is a trade that somehow keeps us in the playoffs while somehow significantly improving what we already have. I'm also not holding my breath for a significant free agent signing.

[Guest]

Plenty people thought Joe could be traded go back and see the threads that people like myself posted around here even before he got traded. It does not matter how long Ferry has been here. You act like he has changed the culture of Atlanta or something. The fact remains no 1st team All-NBA talent has just walked in here. I am also of the strong opinion that unless you get a legit superstar you are wasting money in Free Agency. So, going to get anything less than Dwight and Paul you are just selling a dream of some type of change.

Of course it matters how long Ferry has been here. That is exactly the point, he has not been here long enough to change the attitude and culture and how players view Atlanta. This is year one - has Ferry had a chance to have a conversation with a free agent who is a 1st team All-NBA talent? No.

The fact that ownership is now in the background and has hired a basketball person to run things that in itself is a culture change. Stability in the front office goes along way in how players view a franchise.

[ryandauwalker]

Wretch - I'm not bunching you into that category. It is clear that you make thoughtful (and quite verbose) posts. Please work on being more concise as you bring a lot to the table, but I am less likely to read it if it goes on for days.Two qualms I have:1) All of my posts have been made regarding what he has done up until this point as a GM. I have not at one point predicted greatness for him, but he has done a masterful job to this point by unloading contracts that we all viewed as untradeable. In addition, the acquisitions (while primarily viewed as a tool to rebuild) have been crafted in a way that allows us to be competitive this year. Therefore, I am not making any predictions on what he WILL do. He is communicating what a lot of us feel, and he's done an incredible job so far. What do many posters here has been misinterpreting is that I am saying his success thus far has any barring on his future success in Atlanta. There are reasons to be optimistic, but I'm not predicting anything (positively or negatively).2) It is really hard to have a successful franchise in the NBA year after year. With that in mind, efforts to get to that level will often fail. That doesn't make it inevitable that we will never reach it. I'm just grateful that this GM is moving us in a better direction by unloading major contracts that nobody envisioned we could unload. In addition, he had a nice signing in Lou and has some talent to build off of. I'm not saying he will or won't succeed, but it's nice to know there is a possibility that we could have a solid franchise because as of this time last year, we were doomed for mediocrity for the next five years if he wouldn't have pulled this miracle off.

[Ruckus]

Exactly JayBird. Some of these dudes just prefer misery so they can say I told you so. It's not that their stance is wrong, in fact they make some good points. It's just that they refuse to see any positive outlook whatsoever which is frustrating to most. Ferry hasn't had a chance to do anything yet and they choose to only see it that "he hasn't" and turns that into "he won't." Chances are they will be right considering only 2 teams make the finals each season and they can parade the Squawk with their "I told you so" attitude. I wonder if they would even be happy if we were successful because that would make them wrong.

Edited January 12, 2013 by HawkFan

[Guest]

Exactly JayBird. Some of these dudes just prefer misery so they can say I told you so. It's not that their stance is wrong, in fact they make some good points. It's just that they refuse to see any positive outlook whatsoever which is frustrating to most. Ferry hasn't had a chance to do anything yet and they choose to only see it that "he hasn't" and turns that into "he won't." Chances are they will be right considering only 2 teams make the finals each season and they can parade the Squawk with their "I told you so" attitude. I wonder if they would even be happy if we were successful because that would make them wrong.

Misery loves company that is why more often than not I don't bother addressing all the negativity. I wonder what they would be saying if Ferry hadn't dealt Joe.

There was a time not so long ago the Falcons never had back to back winning seasons in their history. Look at them now - a change in culture and attitude. Just because something has never happened doesn't mean it never will. If that is the attitude why even bother trying to do a damn thing. All Ferry has done is give a chance to at least make it happen. NO GUARANTEES...just a possiblity. It may not happen this summer but it maybe the next.

[Wretch]

Wretch - I'm not bunching you into that category. It is clear that you make thoughtful (and quite verbose) posts. Please work on being more concise as you bring a lot to the table, but I am less likely to read it if it goes on for days.Two qualms I have:1) All of my posts have been made regarding what he has done up until this point as a GM. I have not at one point predicted greatness for him, but he has done a masterful job to this point by unloading contracts that we all viewed as untradeable. In addition, the acquisitions (while primarily viewed as a tool to rebuild) have been crafted in a way that allows us to be competitive this year.Therefore, I am not making any predictions on what he WILL do. He is communicating what a lot of us feel, and he's done an incredible job so far. What do many posters here has been misinterpreting is that I am saying his success thus far has any barring on his future success in Atlanta. There are reasons to be optimistic, but I'm not predicting anything (positively or negatively).2) It is really hard to have a successful franchise in the NBA year after year. With that in mind, efforts to get to that level will often fail. That doesn't make it inevitable that we will never reach it. I'm just grateful that this GM is moving us in a better direction by unloading major contracts that nobody envisioned we could unload. In addition, he had a nice signing in Lou and has some talent to build off of. I'm not saying he will or won't succeed, but it's nice to know there is a possibility that we could have a solid franchise because as of this time last year, we were doomed for mediocrity for the next five years if he wouldn't have pulled this miracle off.

I tend to get wordy when people take things that I say out of context. It happens a lot on forums because people read into words what they want. And when someone agrees with someone on ONE particular point, people tend to lump them into the same belief system all around. I also run my mouth when something seems painfully obvious to me that just seems to float right over peoples' heads. You should have seen the arguments I made for Chris Paul in 2005.

On point one, I can give Ferry credit for swapping Marvin for Harris. That's a pretty decent move, though i'm not a big fan of dumps. Not that I'm against them, it's just...when you have talent on a short leash that you want to get rid of, it's not impossible to find a suitor. So give him B+ on Marv. On Joe...I think I've said it enough, but that was a serious stroke of luck. Fortune smiled on us and the timing of that trade with all that was going on in Brooklyn (not to mention their fatcat owner). That's like selling a house that your way upside down on for asking price. I can only give Ferry so much credit for that. Some of it has to be given to Billy King (and Mikhail Dmitrievitch Prokhorov) for bailing us out.

On point two...I disagree. it's not hard to win. Pete Babcock and Billy Knight (Dumb and Dumber) built winners. It's hard to win BIG and to keep winning big. If Ferry does nothing but keep Al, Josh, and Teague together with Lou for the next 5 years and we will see wins. With the right free agent, we might even get a glimmer of hope MAKING the ECF's. We won't win, but there might be an exciting 2nd round series.

What's difficult is building and maintaining a contender. It's scary panning for the gold, but it's significantly easier once you get an elite cornerstone. To maintain that contender status is extremely difficult.

It is my contention that our last 3 GM's (subbing Sund for Gearon) have taken the easy route and that has produced nothing but playoff failure and irrelevancy. Should DF continue to plug in the holes on a decent team, i expect the same results. At the moment, something has to give with this core...we will truly see his skills go to work in the next season and a half.

[ryandauwalker]

I tend to get wordy when people take things that I say out of context. It happens a lot on forums because people read into words what they want. And when someone agrees with someone on ONE particular point, people tend to lump them into the same belief system all around. I also run my mouth when something seems painfully obvious to me that just seems to float right over peoples' heads. You should have seen the arguments I made for Chris Paul in 2005. On point one, I can give Ferry credit for swapping Marvin for Harris. That's a pretty decent move, though i'm not a big fan of dumps. Not that I'm against them, it's just...when you have talent on a short leash that you want to get rid of, it's not impossible to find a suitor. So give him B+ on Marv. On Joe...I think I've said it enough, but that was a serious stroke of luck. Fortune smiled on us and the timing of that trade with all that was going on in Brooklyn (not to mention their fatcat owner). That's like selling a house that your way upside down on for asking price. I can only give Ferry so much credit for that. Some of it has to be given to Billy King (and Mikhail Dmitrievitch Prokhorov) for bailing us out. On point two...I disagree. it's not hard to win. Pete Babcock and Billy Knight (Dumb and Dumber) built winners. It's hard to win BIG and to keep winning big. If Ferry does nothing but keep Al, Josh, and Teague together with Lou for the next 5 years and we will see wins. With the right free agent, we might even get a glimmer of hope MAKING the ECF's. We won't win, but there might be an exciting 2nd round series. What's difficult is building and maintaining a contender. It's scary panning for the gold, but it's significantly easier once you get an elite cornerstone. To maintain that contender status is extremely difficult. It is my contention that our last 3 GM's (subbing Sund for Gearon) have taken the easy route and that has produced nothing but playoff failure and irrelevancy. Should DF continue to plug in the holes on a decent team, i expect the same results. At the moment, something has to give with this core...we will truly see his skills go to work in the next season and a half.

You are dead wrong... You do agree with me :) I said a successful franchise year after year... Our difference is simply semantics. I have no qualms with what you said here, but there is one thing I want to say as food for thought.Being fans, we make a lot of assumptions about how things go because we're on the outside looking in. Certain things like locker room chemistry, personalities, trades, relationships... We can make inferences based on limited knowledge. Often times, we're right, but not always. There's only so much we really know.Why do I bring this up? The attribution of luck to Ferry's Joe deal seems unfair, and here's why. You might be right or you might be wrong. But we cannot see the negotiations. We weren't privy to those conversations. We don't know the personalities involved. Based on our perception of the Nets owner, we can assume that they were desperate for a superstar and that Ferry didn't have to do much to make it happen. But what if the Nets were remarkably skeptical for months and he came in and made the perfect argument? What if he convinced them that Joe and Deron were a match made in heaven through statistical analysis? There is a little bit of luck in everything (driving to work without a drunk driver in the lane next to me) to varying degrees. From our vantage point, it's inconclusive how much skill it took for Ferry to do his thing.All we know that it was a great move, and he's done nothing to suggest he won't be a good GM. It's a small sample size, but it's all we got so I say lets be optimistic!

[Wretch]

It depends on how you defines success. And it's relative.

For the Hawks to make the playoffs is that success? Sure technically, they're over .500, right? What if the Lakers make the playoffs as an 8 seed...success? Sure. They're in the playoffs. In both situations, coming in as a 5-8 seed is a technical success. They won more games than they lost. It'd mean a little more for a team like Sacramento to turn it around and all of a sudden make the playoffs. Should they just miss the bar, that's still a success for them.

Without getting too far off the point, I don't think it's hard to build a winning/successful team. We've proven that with morons running the ship. What is difficult (and takes some serious balls sometimes) is building a contender and maintaining it.

I'm never going to see Ferry wheeling and dealing JJ. WHO in their right mind takes that mistake off of us? lol Everybody from us die hard fans, the biggest JJ supporters, media...EVERYBODY knew that deal was grossly overdone...and Joe had started falling off.

And you're telling me, DF slides in...puts the smooth hot shit in Billy King's ear and they just...all of a sudden they can't see how awful that deal is? lol Naw.... Dude...come on. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that. Props to Ferry. He did his job, but I'm sorry. We got some luck on that.

[ryandauwalker]

Haha... I'm agreeing with you. It's not hard to do, but to do it year in and year out at a very high level is a big deal. We have not done this yet. We're on the same page.For us, anything above a five seed in my mind is success (for us and us alone) considering we reclaimed a chance at long-term success (when we were at a remarkably unhealthy point as a franchise). This is a piecemeal team with individual players auditioning for a spot in Ferry's long term plans. Everybody outside of Lou, Scott and Jenkins has a decent shot of being moved.I'm certainly not acting as though any of those things are true about Ferry... It's just hard for us as fans to accurately gauge the skill involved for Ferry in the JJ deal. It's plausible that it all fell in his lap, but at the end of the day, it's all theoretical. What we do know for sure is that it was a remarkable deal and that's where the focus should be.