Blessings to Danny!

[atljonesbro]

The one thing I hate about all you stupid, sad, depressed debbie downers is you think you are SOOOO much smarter than everyone else because you never learned how to enjoy things in life and be happy for what you do have rather than angry or mad at what you don't have. (blank)dude81 is probably someone who gets very jealous of people more successful than him because he doesn't have what they have. Seriously that dude is a psyco I'm dead serious. I've literally in my entire life NEVER seen anyone more negative than him. Dude needs to get over him self and stop being so selfish to try to bring everyone down to his sad level. Not everyone wants to cry, whine, and bitch about everything like you do. And that's exactly what he wants, he doesn't wanty you to be happy he wants to be a selfish prick and try and make sure everyone is as despressed and negative as him. Im f***ing sick of his shit

[TheFuzz]

That escalated quickly.

[ryandauwalker]

I wouldn't go to the lengths that atljonesbro did, but it's gotten pretty absurd. The theme of rebuilding being synonymous to taking the focus off of winning is a ridiculous argument. You have to be able to think in different time horizons. Short-term restructuring is necessary to get long-term growth. Just because short-term reconstruction isn't fun and can result in repeated failure down the road, that doesn't mean you pout and say we're doomed or make it any less necessary. We should have been declared bankrupt, but somebody let us off the hook for millions in loans, and we've got a chance to put together a good business. After the bankruptcy hearing, no CEO would sulk and say "we'll never be as good as so-and-so in a few years." You would be freaking ecstatic, and that's how Hawk Nation should be. I will continue to wear out these analogies until it sinks in for you Negative Nancies. We've had many years when sulking was the appropriate response. Now is NOT that time.

Edited January 11, 2013 by ryandauwalker

[EazyRoc]

I am not ridiculous. I am just being honest. We have a million expiring's and to sit around and do nothing to really improve this team with them is just putting all of your eggs in one basket. To me that is fantasizing.

Unless you are saving the cap space for teams who need to dump a quality player because they cant afford him or go after a big FA.

[Plainview1981]

That escalated quickly.

Oh, we have had a go at it on insidehoops several times.

He thinks everyone should just suck it up and "rah rah rah!" like the stupid Cub fans do. Like those sheep up there in Chicago.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Hotlanta1981

[ryandauwalker]

Oh, we have had a go at it on insidehoops several times. He thinks everyone should just suck it up and "rah rah rah!" like the stupid Cub fans do. Like those sheep up there in Chicago.

While I don't agree with the way he handled it, it is laughable that you can describe him as a delusional Cubs fan because he isn't as negative as you are. Last year after the playoffs... I get that. Now? It's time to grow up and stop acting like a child.

[MrMeltdown]

Unless you are saving the cap space for teams who need to dump a quality player because they cant afford him or go after a big FA.

Still putting all your eggs in one basket. Either you are going to do everything possible to get better or you are not. Sitting around with all of these expirings and doing nothing to better the team is just selling dreams and allowing people to fantasize. Use it or lose it, use some of everything you have to make your life easier. Don't just use a couple of things then go crying about you did everything you could because that is a lie.

You should have seen this board over the summer before Dwight ended up in LA all the dreamers came out and told the realistic people to keep the faith because there was a chance the savior could be coming. Ferry wants that again this summer. That is his only aim.

Edited January 11, 2013 by MrMeltdown

[EazyRoc]

Still putting all your eggs in one basket. Either you are going to do everything possible to get better or you are not. Sitting around with all of these expirings and doing nothing to better the team is just selling dreams and allowing people to fantasize. Use it or lose it, use some of everything you have to make your life easier. Don't just use a couple of things then go crying about you did everything you could because that is a lie. You should have seen this board over the summer before Dwight ended up in LA all the dreamers came out and told the realistic people to keep the faith because there was a chance the savior could be coming. Ferry wants that again this summer. That is his only aim.

What exactly are you expecting ? All we can do is be flexible so we can improve the team. We do that and that's not good enough for you. You are starting to look like a troll. I'm not saying we necessarily get Dwight, but at least we have the free agency option to improve the team. If not this year, then the next. With the strict CBA rules, I expect some teams to drops really good pallayer they can't afford.

[tbhawksfan]

What exactly are you expecting ? All we can do is be flexible so we can improve the team. We do that and that's not good enough for you. You are starting to look like a troll. I'm not saying we necessarily get Dwight, but at least we have the free agency option to improve the team. If not this year, then the next. With the strict CBA rules, I expect some teams to drops really good pallayer they can't afford.

I can't buy into the old: pick up someone's rejects and then beat the best theory. I guess that would imply keeping Horf and Smith, adding a good player (reject) or two and beat the best.Got to admit the last rebuid just wasn't the good one, keep the best (Horford) and try to reload for another run.The Celtics are a rare example of a team rebuilding "old" with KG and Allen, but they didn't get far enough. NOw they are in desperation mode for the future.I think the best way is to look for young guys with potential (draft and trade) and keep keeping the best until we get the best.

[EazyRoc]

Still putting all your eggs in one basket. Either you are going to do everything possible to get better or you are not. Sitting around with all of these expirings and doing nothing to better the team is just selling dreams and allowing people to fantasize. Use it or lose it, use some of everything you have to make your life easier. Don't just use a couple of things then go crying about you did everything you could because that is a lie. You should have seen this board over the summer before Dwight ended up in LA all the dreamers came out and told the realistic people to keep the faith because there was a chance the savior could be coming. Ferry wants that again this summer. That is his only aim.

You are overvaluing expiring contracts. What are we getting by trading expirings that's worth the salary we will be sending out and productive enough to take us to the next level. The fact is people are "dreaming" because we now have the ability to be players in the FA market which improves our chances of becoming a contender. Another way to improve the team means its much more likely that we actually do.

[EazyRoc]

I can't buy into the old: pick up someone's rejects and then beat the best theory. I guess that would imply keeping Horf and Smith, adding a good player (reject) or two and beat the best.Got to admit the last rebuid just wasn't the good one, keep the best (Horford) and try to reload for another run.The Celtics are a rare example of a team rebuilding "old" with KG and Allen, but they didn't get far enough. NOw they are in desperation mode for the future.I think the best way is to look for young guys with potential (draft and trade) and keep keeping the best until we get the best.

Isn't that what we are doing ? We can add a max contract player so as long as we keep our cap space. we can sign a very good player whenever the opportunity presents itself.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I can't buy into the old: pick up someone's rejects and then beat the best theory. I guess that would imply keeping Horf and Smith, adding a good player (reject) or two and beat the best.Got to admit the last rebuid just wasn't the good one, keep the best (Horford) and try to reload for another run.The Celtics are a rare example of a team rebuilding "old" with KG and Allen, but they didn't get far enough. NOw they are in desperation mode for the future.I think the best way is to look for young guys with potential (draft and trade) and keep keeping the best until we get the best.

The Celtics didn't get far enough?The won a NBA championship, got to a NBA Finals, an EC Finals, and 2 EC Semifinals in the 5 years they had KG and Allen. Last season was supposed to be their swan song, and they STILL came within 1 game of getting to their 3rd NBA Finals.The Celtics aren't in desperation mode for the future, because they're still playing for TODAY. Their Big 3 is still arguably the mentally toughest trio in the conference. And their the one team that truly doesn't care where they are seeded in the EC playoffs, because they don't need home court advantage to win a series.The funny thing is that Brooklyn is following the Celtics blueprint, by bringing in star talents that couldn't win by themselves, and hoping that they can collectively get it done. The difference is that Boston did it with future Hall of Famers, while Brooklyn is trying to do it with a collection of All-Star ( but non-Hall of Fame ) talent.

[Guest]

It's all about the ability to be able to do something, anything, which we didn't have before. FAcy, trades and drafts.

There is no gaurantee to any of this but just having the ability to do it is HUGE. Only time will tell and I don't think it's about DF hitting a home run in one year it's what the team outlook will also be 3 years from now.

And if it's one thing I've realized, we need a SUPER DUPER STAR surrouned by looads of talent and complimentary pieces to win and CONSISTENTLY compete for Championships.

[tbhawksfan]

The Celtics didn't get far enough?The won a NBA championship, got to a NBA Finals, an EC Finals, and 2 EC Semifinals in the 5 years they had KG and Allen. Last season was supposed to be their swan song, and they STILL came within 1 game of getting to their 3rd NBA Finals.The Celtics aren't in desperation mode for the future, because they're still playing for TODAY. Their Big 3 is still arguably the mentally toughest trio in the conference. And their the one team that truly doesn't care where they are seeded in the EC playoffs, because they don't need home court advantage to win a series.The funny thing is that Brooklyn is following the Celtics blueprint, by bringing in star talents that couldn't win by themselves, and hoping that they can collectively get it done. The difference is that Boston did it with future Hall of Famers, while Brooklyn is trying to do it with a collection of All-Star ( but non-Hall of Fame ) talent.

"The won a NBA championship, got to a NBA Finals, an EC Finals, and 2 EC Semifinals in the 5 years they had KG and Allen. Last season was supposed to be their swan song, and they STILL came within 1 game of getting to their 3rd NBA Finals."I somehow must have convieniently forgotten about these accomplishments. Don't like the Celts much.Guess what I'd offer is: what are the chances the Hawks bring in FA's of that caliber to get to go that route?

[MrMeltdown]

What exactly are you expecting ? All we can do is be flexible so we can improve the team. We do that and that's not good enough for you. You are starting to look like a troll. I'm not saying we necessarily get Dwight, but at least we have the free agency option to improve the team. If not this year, then the next. With the strict CBA rules, I expect some teams to drops really good pallayer they can't afford.

I don't care what I look like to you. The truth is many of us are saying the same thing it just happens that you have your undies in a bunch about the way others are saying what they want to say.

You say it is about flexibility or possibilities. I say it is about a fantasy or fantasizing. When you continue to bring up possibilities without ever acting on them you are just fantasizing or selling dreams. Until a 1st team All NBA type talent like Dwight or Paul walk in the door it is just a fantasy because that has never happened here.

You can call it having flexibility and I can call it fantasizing and we can not insult each other because we are saying the same thing.

[Guest]

I don't care what I look like to you. The truth is many of us are saying the same thing it just happens that you have your undies in a bunch about the way others are saying what they want to say.

You say it is about flexibility or possibilities. I say it is about a fantasy or fantasizing. When you continue to bring up possibilities without ever acting on them you are just fantasizing or selling dreams. Until a 1st team All NBA type talent like Dwight or Paul walk in the door it is just a fantasy because that has never happened here.

You can call it having flexibility and I can call it fantasizing and we can not insult each other because we are saying the same thing.

Are you bloody serious? Fantasy is talking about things that have absolutely no chance of happening - like say trading for LBJ or Durant.

How long has Ferry been here? The season is just past the 1/3 mark, the trade deadline is more that a month away. What has Ferry talked about doing that he hasn't acted on?

Flexibility is the ability to do something that you couldn't do before.

You know what the real Fantasy was that turned into a reality - trading Joe...nobody thought that was ever possible.

[MrMeltdown]

Plenty people thought Joe could be traded go back and see the threads that people like myself posted around here even before he got traded. It does not matter how long Ferry has been here. You act like he has changed the culture of Atlanta or something. The fact remains no 1st team All-NBA talent has just walked in here. I am also of the strong opinion that unless you get a legit superstar you are wasting money in Free Agency. So, going to get anything less than Dwight and Paul you are just selling a dream of some type of change.

[Wretch]

I wouldn't go to the lengths that atljonesbro did, but it's gotten pretty absurd.

The theme of rebuilding being synonymous to taking the focus off of winning is a ridiculous argument. You have to be able to think in different time horizons. Short-term restructuring is necessary to get long-term growth. Just because short-term reconstruction isn't fun and can result in repeated failure down the road, that doesn't mean you pout and say we're doomed or make it any less necessary.

We should have been declared bankrupt, but somebody let us off the hook for millions in loans, and we've got a chance to put together a good business. After the bankruptcy hearing, no CEO would sulk and say "we'll never be as good as so-and-so in a few years." You would be freaking ecstatic, and that's how Hawk Nation should be. I will continue to wear out these analogies until it sinks in for you Negative Nancies. We've had many years when sulking was the appropriate response. Now is NOT that time.

Ok..........................

TL:DR version of that wall of text below: You must reshape a team when you hit a ceiling or you start sliding. Rebuilding is a term used to describe a sub .500 team that is trying to develop talent, build a roster, and is not concerned about making the playoffs. We are currently not rebuilding. That was the point I was making. I'm not a negative poster. I am very happy that Danny Ferry came in and immediately started making changes. I'm withholding judgement until I see the fruits of his labor start to grow. I don't care how we get beyond the 2nd round of the playoffs as long as we get there.

Incoming wall of text, read at your own risk:

When you rebuild an engine, you take it apart and replace key components and put it back together. While it is apart, the engine does not work. While it is being REBUILT, there is absolutely no concern over how it runs - it doesn't.

When a house burns down, or floods and it's walls are destroyed, or an earthquake shakes it apart...when this happens and the house is being REBUILT, people are usually not living in it. If they are living in it, they understand that there will be noise from the contractors, and a draft because of missing walls, or there will be a smell from the flood water.

When you rebuild an NBA team, acquiring and developing talent is the primary objective. Winning is secondary. Winning in the playoffs is not a concern. At the moment, the Hawks are not rebuilding. That is the point that I was making about rebuilding. It is not a ridiculous argument, it's...how the NBA has referred to lottery teams since...the beginning of time?

I was not "sulking" and I'm not a "Negative Nancy."

I would cite my positive and supportive posting history for you, but the fact that you lump me in as a negative poster/hater and have completely taken what I've said out of context tells me that you've already decided what I am. So I will not waste time on that. Think what you want. What I will clarify for you and anyone else that cares to extend this conversation is my position on the state of the Hawks.

I'm not predicting doom and gloom. I'm telling you what is going to happen to this club if we do not acquire elite talent - we are going to lose. What part of that is not sinking in? It's not that hard to figure out - especially if you're like me and you have seen good Hawks teams get crushed in the playoffs for almost 30 damn years. You cannot beat the best teams if you are not one of the best. To be the best, you need elite talent, a balanced team, and a committed organization. What exactly would you like to argue there?

Where I differ in opinion (from seemingly a majority of people, but that is nothing new) is the attitude towards getting there. I really don't care what path we take. I don't care if we lose all 82 games, or if we pull a Celtics and mortgage the future, or if KG and Lebron (two players that I despise) decide to demand trades here. All I care about is getting out of the 2nd round of the playoffs.

There are only so many paths to acquiring elite talent. You can't just keep winning at a 45-50 win clip and magically expect to *poof* into a contender. Once you hit that ceiling, you've got to do something to get out of the middle. The draft is out of the question at this point, because you're picking mid-late 1st round (have a looksee how that works for us). Free agents? The best are not even going to mention us. The guys we want are going to take less money to play for a contender. We might be able to overpay for unproven talent - like Joe Johnson. You hope that he will blossom into an elite talent, but if not...guess what? You've still got your 40-50 win team. Only now, you've spent another 2-3 years figuring that out. You can trade, but do you expect lateral moves to give you elite results? If the deal is a wash...which it is likely to be...then you're still looking at the same ceiling. You're still not drafting high and you're still not attracting the right free agents...and more importantly, you're eating into your cap space to do it.

I have seen that story over and over again. I know how it ends. Yes, it is a pattern and yes it is predictable. Am I saying that's where we're headed?

*****NO*****

I am only offering up my trademark cautionary opinion. We have cap flexibility. We have assets. We have a GM who says he is concerned about the longterm identity of this franchise. That shit makes me HAPPY. What I am NOT going to do is sit here and talk about erecting statues and scrubbing the feet of a guy that has only just started.

Do you remember having this conversation with me about Billy Knight? No, but you did...in the form of many different posters. People who were excited that....."OH MY GAWD HE GOT RID OF THE WHOLE TEAM! HE'S SO FANTASTIC! HOORAY FOR BILLY KNIGHT!" I was also "stoned" then because I said, "He hasn't done anything. Anybody can dump talent. It's great that he realizes the need to start over, but let's wait before we start praising him." People responded then the same way that you all do now.

Then when his ship didn't take off as fast as it should, did I say toldjaso? Nope. Haters poured in only a year after his tenure started. Two years later, he was the devil. All the while I'm like, "Can we just wait to see how this team shapes up? We don't know if these guys are busts. Give them a chance."

I'm doing the same thing now. Danny Ferry get's an A+ in my book for saying the right things about long term identity, acknowledging that the team had hit a ceiling, and acknowledging conversations that are taking place behind the scenes. I am so EXCITED about what he said in regards to building a new culture here from scratch. His words sound like he gets it...almost like he read everything that I've ever posted and like he understands the struggles of a Hawks fan. Having come from a place that has done nothing but win, and to give that up to come here, and to come flat out and say this isn't lip service - we're committed to building a contender. That shit right there has me so excited I don't know what to do with myself.

So far, he has done what's needed to be done. I've got NO COMPLAINTS. (See that? Read it again...I'm not a complainer.) My only question is whether or not he's going to try and win without losing. Will he make a move for our future even if it causes us to slide? That's what I'm waiting to see. More power to him if he can get it done without rebuilding. Most teams eventually recognize the need to rebuild. And that's probably where I differ from a lot of you...because I really don't have a preference as to how we get there. I just feel that one particular path is going to lock us right where we are. That is the path of trying to stay competitive at all costs and filling in the blanks with "decent" players.

[Plainview1981]

While I don't agree with the way he handled it, it is laughable that you can describe him as a delusional Cubs fan because he isn't as negative as you are.Last year after the playoffs... I get that. Now? It's time to grow up and stop acting like a child.

So you buy the idea that Ferry is going to build a contender here when there is nobody to get in FA that will boost this team to that level? What is this confidence in Danny Ferry based on?

Maybe some people do need to grow and get a dose of reality.

This team is going to finish the season with a worse draft pick than they need and there will be nobody in FA that can make the kind of difference the team needs.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Hotlanta1981

[Plainview1981]

So you buy the idea that Ferry is going to build a contender here when there is nobody to get in FA that will boost this team to that level? What is this confidence in Danny Ferry based on?

Maybe some people do need to grow and get a dose of reality.

This team is going to finish the season with a worse draft pick than they need and there will be nobody in FA that can make the kind of difference the team needs.

Adding to that...

I'm discouraged that Ferry seems to think he will build a contender through FA and trades. If it turns out that I'm wrong, that's great. Hopefully it turns out that way. But history has been repeated here time and time again, and I'm not putting any faith in that changing until I see it.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Hotlanta1981