Brooklyn after josh seems unreasonable

[coachx]

I'm gonna be pissed if we go through with this... we better be getting a good deal if we trade Josh away.

He could walk for nothing in free agency.

[gsuteke]

The Hawks would be better off letting Josh walk and take his cap hold with him over taking this deal. They wouldn't be getting "nothing" they would be acquiring financial flexibility to sign other players. Dallas didn't panic when they didn't sign Deron Williams and are subsequently in position to offer Dwight Howard a max deal this summer. They wouldn't be in that position had they swung a trade like this one for a late first rounder a B level prospect.

Edited February 12, 2013 by gsuteke

[atlfan25]

What? yes they would.. a mid first rounder and prospect like Brooks cost barely anything and wouldn't even have a noticeable effect on our cap situation

[coachx]

The Hawks would be better off letting Josh walk and take his cap hold with him over taking this deal. They wouldn't be getting "nothing" they would be acquiring financial flexibility to sign other players. Dallas didn't panic when they didn't sign Deron Williams and are subsequently in position to offer Dwight Howard a max deal this summer. They wouldn't be in that position had they swung a trade like this one for a late first rounder a B level prospect.

Humphries only has 1 year left on his deal.You get a mid 1st and a prospect and only delay your cap space by 1 year.I don't see us getting Howard even if we had the cap space and the Paul is going no where's his off season. Edited February 12, 2013 by coachx

[bruincoach]

Flexibility is good but don't overvalue it. We HAVE to get something for smith. Odds are he's wAlking. Don't strap yourself but get something in return

[gsuteke]

You can say this player won't do this and that player won't do that but you remove all doubt by squandering your cap space on Humphries

[Wretch]

You take what you can get for Smith and move on. The deal does not hurt our long term cap situations since Humphries only has 1 year left on his deal.Brooks and their 1st round pick must be included if we agree to take Humphries. As of today that would give us picks 17, 19, and 20 in this draft. I can't see us keeping all 3 of them. No team needs 3 mid 1 st rounds picks in the same year. I assume Danny would try to package one with an expiring contract for a nice piece. If he strikes out on that he will try to trade 2 of them to move up a few spots if a player drops on draft night who he likes.

That's what I'm saying...if you're not building around him or building with him, you get something for him. And Brooks ins't a bad prospect. Not at all and last year I had no idea that dude was a rookie... Thought he was like a 2-3 year guy. That's the kind of talent you try to develop and I think he could be more than a bench dude too.

Either way, it's about moving on and getting pieces to rebuild with.

[bruincoach]

Rule of thumb in sports don't be reactive be proactive. I'm like this with my high school football team as best I canYes marshon went to tucker high school. We played them in the first round of the state tournament unfortunately when they won te state championship

[gsuteke]

Flexibility is good but don't overvalue it. We HAVE to get something for smith. Odds are he's wAlking. Don't strap yourself but get something in return

If the Heat had that philosophy a few years ago they wouldn't have been able to sign Bosh and possibly would have missed out on Lebron as a result

[coachx]

If the Heat had that philosophy a few years ago they wouldn't have been able to sign Bosh and possibly would have missed out on Lebron as a result

Miami already had Wade, as their lead recruiter, with a championship ring. There were a lot of all stars who were free agents that year.......this year there are only 2 and both are in LA. Hard to compare the probability of an NBA player wanting to leave LA, for less money and guaranteed years, to wanting to leave cities like Toronto and Cleveland.It's not apples to apples. Most people expected Bosh and James to walk in free agency because they were in cities like Cleveland and Toronto. Edited February 12, 2013 by coachx

[gsuteke]

Miami came out of NOWHERE to pull that off nobody saw it coming. Bottom line is ferry did the impossible by digging the hawks out of salary cap purgatory there's no way he blows it on a scrub like Humphries

[coachx]

Miami came out of NOWHERE to pull that off nobody saw it coming. Bottom line is ferry did the impossible by digging the hawks out of salary cap purgatory there's no way he blows it on a scrub like Humphries

I think most people thought Lebron was gone......especially the way he tanked in the playoffs. He quit on the Cavs. Most saw it coming. It all started in the 2008 Olympics.

[atlfan25]

Miami came out of NOWHERE to pull that off nobody saw it coming. Bottom line is ferry did the impossible by digging the hawks out of salary cap purgatory there's no way he blows it on a scrub like Humphries

Humphries only has one and a half years left on his deal. It seems extremely unlikely that were going to sign Howard or Paul this offseason, IDK if Howard wouldn't even be worth the risk..

Other than those two what other free agents are worth pursuing this year?

Then after next year we keep our cap flexibility when there are far more top tier free agents available..

And we also get a solid prospect in Brooks and a 1st round draft pick..

I think we end up with more than that if a trade does happen for Smith but what I'm trying to say is that trade barely efffects our future flexibility and cap space at all.

[atlfan25]

And I'm not sure exactly how this works but would Josh's cap hold cause problems with us re-signing our own free agents to larger deals(Teague)?

[coachx]

And I'm not sure exactly how this works but would Josh's cap hold cause problems with us re-signing our own free agents to larger deals(Teague)?

Not really.....we can go over the fictions cap hold related salary cap to resign our own free agents but not other teams free agents.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And I'm not sure exactly how this works but would Josh's cap hold cause problems with us re-signing our own free agents to larger deals(Teague)?

It'll become a problem depending on whose Bird Rights we want to hang onto when they hit the free agent market.

Smith's cap hold is over 16 million

Devin's is almost 13 million

Korver's is 9.5 million

Zaza's is almost 8 million

Teague's is a little over 6 million

If we don't renounce about 30 million of these cap holds, we can't make a play for a major free agent.

Devin will almost surely be renounced. If you hold onto Smith's Bird Rights ( keeping his 16+ mill cap hold ) you'll probably only have room to choose between Korver, Teague, or Zaza. And even if you choose Smith + Korver or Zaza, we're going to be somewhere between 24 - 26 million in cap holds. Combine that with the 20+ million we have in guaranteed contracts, and we wouldn't have enough cap room to make a play for a Chris Paul or Dwight Howard.

( 20 mill guaranteed + 24 - 26 mill cap holds = 44 - 46 mill = 12 - 14 mill in cap room )

If it's Smith + Teague, that's a little over 22 million in cap holds, putting us around 15 million below the cap. Even that may not be enough to fit in Dwight. Even if we did fit in Dwight, we'll have to put together the rest of the team with vet minimum guys . . . and may not have a good PG in the process.

So to make a play for Dwight straight up, EVERYBODY except Smith would have to be renounced ( unless the Salary Cap went up above 60 million ).

So yeah . . . the cap holds definitely come into play in relation to our own players and in relation to signing big time free agents.

Edited February 12, 2013 by northcyde

[atlfan25]

So trading Josh and losing his caphold is the best option.. unless your trying to get a dwight josh frontcourt.. in which case we wouldn't be able to sign anyone else... AND we would probably trade horford

[gsuteke]

It'll become a problem depending on whose Bird Rights we want to hang onto when they hit the free agent market. Smith's cap hold is over 16 millionDevin's is almost 13 millionKorver's is 9.5 millionZaza's is almost 8 millionTeague's is a little over 6 million If we don't renounce about 30 million of these cap holds, we can't make a play for a major free agent. Devin will almost surely be renounced. If you hold onto Smith's Bird Rights ( keeping his 16+ mill cap hold ) you'll probably only have room to choose between Korver, Teague, or Zaza. And even if you choose Smith + Korver or Zaza, we're going to be somewhere between 24 - 26 million in cap holds. Combine that with the 20+ million we have in guaranteed contracts, and we wouldn't have enough cap room to make a play for a Chris Paul or Dwight Howard. ( 20 mill guaranteed + 24 - 26 mill cap holds = 44 - 46 mill = 12 - 14 mill in cap room ) If it's Smith + Teague, that's a little over 22 million in cap holds, putting us around 15 million below the cap. Even that may not be enough to fit in Dwight. Even if we did fit in Dwight, we'll have to put together the rest of the team with vet minimum guys . . . and may not have a good PG in the process. So to make a play for Dwight straight up, EVERYBODY except Smith would have to be renounced ( unless the Salary Cap went up above 60 million ). So yeah . . . the cap holds definitely come into play in relation to our own players and in relation to signing big time free agents.

Add Humphries 12 million dollar 1 year deal to that and I hope you guys are happy with a back half of the first round pick plus a B level prospect to go on a really bad team next year because who is going to sign 1 year deals to replace Korver, Harris, pachulia, smoove etc while you wait "one more year?"Discussing the NBAs salary cap has never been enjoyable on HS

[coachx]

I totally get gsu's point of Brooks and a pick around #20 -22 is not enough of a payoff to take yourself out of the bidding for Howard and Paul. He obviously believes there is a chance they come to Atlanta.

I don't see a chance there for Atlanta with either Paul or Howard. I'll take the pay off of a prospect and a 1st round pick and wait another year to use the salary on a big time free agent.....rather then sitting there with egg on my face and nothing to show for it like what happened with Ferry with James leaving Cleveland for nothing.

Something is better then nothing.......we still get tons of cap space in 2014.

Potential 2013 roster

Teague / Lou

Lou / Brooks / Jenkins

Korver if resigned / Scott

Humphries / Scott

Horford

Maybe ZaZa and Ivan

three 1st round picks to use as trading chips or take young prospects.

Some 1 year rentals in the free agent market.

Expiring contracts and first round picks can be valueable commodities on draft night......and before this years trade deadline. Ferry is a wheeler and dealer........who knows what he can make out of these poker chips. The cards are in his hand. Maybe he can trade in some of those picks, prospects, and expiring contracts for an allstar caliber player on draft night while still maintaining cap flexibility for a big time free agent in 2014. Having another allstar on the roster would make us more attractive to free agents in 2014.

For Hawks to become championship caliber then Ferry will have to be a championship caliber poker player with his chips. It may take a combination of the Boston blue print (draft night trades) and the Miami blue print (cap flexibility) to pull this off.....and it doesn't alwayse happed in 1 off season.

Edited February 12, 2013 by coachx