lebron has really turned it on since the trade

[chillzatl]

Since they moved Ricky Williams, Lebron has really picked up his scoring. I don't know the exact count. But he's put up over 30 in several of his previous games. Not to mention a good bit of rebounds and assists. This kid is good. Now, when they can get a good team around him, he'll be something to see.

[KB21]

They fired Lenny Wilkens a year too late. Could have had Doc Rivers.

They fired Lon Kruger a year too late. Could have had Eric Musselman.

Now, we are in a position to get the #1 overall pick a year too late. Where we could have had Lebron James, there will be much debating in Atlanta over who to take: Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, or Luol Deng?

[Kaviar]

The Hawks were in good shape to rebuild this team the right way, after the S.Smith trade......thru draft picks and expiring contracts. But Babcock outsmarted himself. Knight took advantage of him on the Rahim/Gasol trade. The Clippers took advantage of him on the Wright/(2) 1st trade. The Bucks trade, etc.......

Right now they could have had a young core of Gasol/Curry,

Q.Richardson, Stoudemire/Butler, and Ford (Babcock always lost when he gave away his future). Plus players like Ratliff and Kukoc or Mutombo's expiring contract. Now this would have been a team for Hawk's fans to get excited about! Unless your a genius like Jerry West patience is the best course for most GMs to take when rebuilding.

Now regrettably the rebuilding process must start all over again. I suggested this summer that they let Terry go or do a sign and trade. Rahim (No D, lacking in Passing and Ballhandling) is not a winner either, the only player with winning traditions is Ratliff. This is a dangerous time for the Hawks and again they need to be patient. Only this time with the draft depleted for years to come it won't be as easy as it would have been.

Cleveland took the patient route and they are going to the playoffs this year (now that the R.Davis experiment is over).

[chillzatl]

They've done some good moves, the biggest being getting Lebron in the draft. But they aren't good enough to even be considerred a playoff team. The team really only has three good players and they just aren't a good enough team to do it, yet. A few more trades and another year or so and they should be a playoff contender. Especailly if Bron continues to improve.

Oh, and Cleveland wasn't patient. THey were lucky. THey got the #1 pick. Which is a combination of being really bad and getting lucky. The trade with Boston is the only really good move that team has made in 10 years.

[Kaviar]

Thanks for your opinion Chill, but as usual it was not considered very carefully. The Cavs have built around their last three drafts and have not mortgaged that. Illgauskaus will be alowwed to walk next year because of the emergence of Diop; Wagner will start when he comes off DL, and Lebron is already a force in the NBA at 18 (not to mention a couple of LUCKY 2nd round picks thrown in)! The Cavs will be in the playoff hunt THIS year.....sorry.

[Admin]

Wow you call out Chillz by saying his opinion wasnt considered very carefully and then you back that up by talking about the emergence of Diop? Are you talking about the same Diop who is always hurt and is averaging a whopping 2.8 pts and 4.5 rpg? Other than that very innaccurate statement I agree with your post and I believe that the Cavs may have a shot at the playoffs this year in the very weak east, but I think that they will miss it by a few games.

[Kaviar]

Well you cannot always tell whats going on from the boxscores. The big Diop is emerging as a force in the middle along the same mold as a guy you used to have here. He usually finishes the games now (when not on DL), while Illgauskas sits.

[chillzatl]

you're grand total of 12 posts and you're telling me that my post wasn't considered very carefully? A very dubious start indeed.

I'll say it again and slow it down in the hope that you can understand. Cleveland.. will.. not.. sniff.. the.. playoffs.. this.. season..

The cavs have done nothing in the last three drafts that they haven't been doing for a decade. They've always gotten very good young talent and have yet to put together a consistantly good team. They have 4 players with real talent, James, bigz, Boozer and Wagner. Yet you're claiming Z will walk and then you state think that Diop is going to fill that hole in the middle? I'm laughing at you.

The emergence of Diop? You talk of the emergence of a player who has been on the IL and is averaging 2ppg and have the temerity to say that my post "wasn't considered carefully"? The same player with career numbers, over three seasons, of 1.7ppg and 2.7rbg?? I think you need to take off your Cleveland Wine colored glasses and view the world like everyone else.

Clevelend is a bad team with a great prospect in Lebron. Lebron is a good player. But he is far from a force in the League yet (note the two games where the Hawks, the LOWLY HAWKS, shut him down). Come talk to me at the end of the season. If they make it, great. I'm a lebron fan. But I know reality and I know a bad team when I see it. DO YOU?

[Kaviar]

I don't care if it is a dubious start or a dubious ending, but you will get my point about these two franchises sonner or later. Otherwise, I have no problem with your grasp of the game.

By the way, the boys in Orlando took the same route Atlanta did when they started giving draft picks away wholesale. I even said so on this forum whem they were doing it. You just do not get quality starting Centers and PGs through the trade route, they usually have to be drafted. Those are the conerstones of rebuilding a team.

Oh...and this is just in from Hoopshype: Another center from Cleveland whom the Mavericks like is DeSagana Diop, the third-year behemoth from Senegal, a homeland shared by Dallas director of scouting Amadou Fall. Diop, though, is injured and likely unavailable anyway. Dallas has inquired about him, but the Cavs think Diop is finally starting to blossom as an athletic defensive presence -- and they aren't peddling centers like they were before sending Chris Mihm and Yogi Stewart to Boston in the Ricky Davis trade.

[Gray Mule]

Chillzatl, you are mostly right about the Cavs. I said before

the season began that they would be the most improved

team in the N.B.A. this season. I still believe that.

They were so bad last season that some believed that

they deliberately lost games to improve their draft.

They have a core of young players and a new head coach.

These young players have matured some. That helped

them this season. Then, they added a young super star

from the draft. James qualifies for this title if any one

ever did.

Lebron James makes the other players on the floor with

him better. He rebounds and picks up assists. His

ability to score opens up the floor for the other young

players. If something happened to him, the same thing

that happened to the Falcons this year when they lost

Michael Vick would occur for the Cavs.

You said that the lowly Hawks shut down L.J. What

really happened was, our rookie shut down their rookie.

Boris Diaw was the real reason he was shut down. We

don't get the ink for our rookie that the Cavs do for

L.J. but he is just as important to the Hawks.

How many games has Atlanta won since Boris Diaw went

down? Hawks weren't doing THAT well with B.D. on

the floor. They have been dead meat without him.

The Cavs are starting to roll. They are way down as

far as the standings are concerned. They may be too

far behind to get to #7 or #8 in the playoff picture.

They may win a few and stumble or fade out after that.

Then again, they may gather steam. Confidence comes

from winning, especially with young players.

Are the Cavs the most improved team in the N.B.A? Yes,

right now they are. They were so far down, the only

direction to go was up.

Wil they make the playoffs? I believe that their chances

are getting better all the time, just like their team.

Whether they do or don't will be a close call. Then,

when playoff time comes, if they do make it, there is

the problem of winning games there. I'm afraid their youth

and inexperience will let them down if they get there.

But, they are on the borderline of making it now. We'll

just have to wait and see how things play out for the

rest of the season.

[chillzatl]

The only thing cleveland has done is get lucky in the draft, period. THey aren't a good team and they won't make the playoffs. So far Diop is nothing but Olowokandi with a lower draft pick and worse stats. He could turn out to be a servicable center, even a very good one. But right now he's nothing but a big body with limited potential and a long history of injury. Of course Dallas would covet him. They have all the inside size of a highschool girls golf team.

But what point were you supposed to make me understand again? You didn't seem to make one in your last post, though you said I was supposed to "get it".

[chillzatl]

That has to go to Denver. They went from being the Cavs in the west to leading their division for a few weeks.

Cleveland has done nothing but make some interesting moves via trade and draft a very very good player.

Your assessment of James is correct though. He's good and he makes those around him better. But he hasn't translated into many wins for them yet. Sure they're doing better than last year, how could they not. They were tanking games.

The only way a team deserves being considered most improved, is by wins. Having young talent means nothing unless you put W's on the board.

[Weez]

I think that's why they moved Ricky - they realized that James actually did make thaose around him better while icky, a very good player, didn't..and the two generally canceled ch other out.

Now it's truly LBJ's team.

As for Diop in and Z out at the end of games...that cmoes down to defense...and the fact of the matter is, Z really doesn't fit in with LB's playing style He's a very good, serviceable scoring center...for a team that's willing to play a half court offense. But he's slow afoot, doesn't get up and down the court...and that team is young and wants to run. You think pin foot wants to pound the hardwood at a furious pace?

Diop can get up and down the court cause he's young, boards and tries to block, and doesn't demand the ball...which is what they really need in a c right now.

[Diesel]

I don't disagree with your statements... BUT...here are some things to consider.

1. Juanny has never saw a shot he didn't like. If there was an AI2, it's Juanny Wagner. I like Juanny, I just know that he's not a PG.

2. I have always expected Diop to emerge. The way that Lucas used to talk about Diop, I thought he would move to a more prominent position much sooner than now. It's evident that Illgauskas will be moved but because it seems that Cleveland is trying to get UNDER the Cap in order to get some player? MY thinking of Course is Kobe or Wallace... But you never know.

3. I agree that the Cavs will make the playoffs (if Orl doesn't come roaring back)... But Their future depends on their next 2 FA moves....