In The Clutch

[Trout7]

I have been a fan of all Atlanta teams since the early 70's.  I know we have had a few players that have the clutch gene on some of the various Atlanta sports teams over the years.  Is it just me or do the Hawks and all the other teams traditionally have a huge problem of performing in crunch times of games, while a lot of the teams we play don't seem to have a lot of issues with that.  Is this a mental thing that carries over to all Atlanta pro sports teams?

[macdaddy]

Yes and welcome.    For various reasons Atlanta teams are cursed.   For the Hawks specifically though I think this is a downside to the share the ball approach.   One guy doesn't get the chance to be the clutch guy.   They all get a chance once in a blue moon and like anything else it takes practice to deliver in those situations.   Lenny Wilkens made Steve Smith that guy and put the ball in his hands every time the game was on the line.   He grew into being a great clutch player because of it.   

As far as Atlanta sports goes it's a pretty sad history.   David Justice,  Morten Andersen,  Sid Bream.......

[Guest]

I think, in general, teams fail more often than not in 'clutch' situations.  It just feels like we're 'cursed' since we're so close to the situation.

[Trout7]

When i was a kid i can remember Dominique being way more clutch than anyone on our current team.

[AHF]

29 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

 Sid Bream

This is the standout moment.

[HawkItus]

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

This is the standout moment.

Actually David Justice and Tom Glavine should stand out more.  Actually won the chip.

[macdaddy]

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

This is the standout moment.

Sadly that's true.   Although I'd say Justice's HR to deliver a world series title was bigger.  While it wasn't a walk off it came on the heels of him supposedly dissing the fans and actually hearing boos in a world series game until he brought us our only championship.     But I'd say Atlanta teams have had a way of dumping the wrong guys, making the wrong moves, and generally being jackasses at running teams:

 

Quote

"I love the Braves, so when [Braves president] John Schuerholz looked me in my face and told me 'I'd bet my house and my family that you won't be traded' that's good enough confidence for me coming from a General Manager, and then out of nowhere, one week later I'm gone."

Justice was later traded along with outfielder Marquis Grissom to the Cleveland Indians for outfielder Kenny Lofton and relief pitcher Alan Embree.

 

[Guest]

Sid Bream is still running to home plate as we speak....

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, Trout7 said:

Is this a mental thing that carries over to all Atlanta pro sports teams?

No, it's more likely that it only appears that the team is less clutch than others. And if you go across all other cities they will also come to the same conclusion that they are "less clutch" than others. It's a similar phenomenon to the Friendship paradox that most people have fewer friends than their friends have (on average).

It only appears that Atlanta is less clutch than others. They're all around the same amount of clutchiness.

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, hawksfanatic said:

No, it's more likely that it only appears that the team is less clutch than others. And if you go across all other cities they will also come to the same conclusion that they are "less clutch" than others. It's a similar phenomenon to the Friendship paradox that most people have fewer friends than their friends have (on average).

It only appears that Atlanta is less clutch than others. They're all around the same amount of clutchiness.

I don't know.   I think most big cities can name more than a handful of clutch moments over the last 40 years of their sports history.   I agree to an extent though.   There are plenty of other hapless franchises around the country that we don't think about.   Still we're pretty much at the bottom in terms of championships right?

[AHF]

26 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

Actually David Justice and Tom Glavine should stand out more.  Actually won the chip.

I'm a mixed bag on Justice.  I loved the big hits but if he would have performed normally in the playoffs they wouldn't have needed to be so big.  Justice had an .844 OPS in the regular season and a craptastic .675 OPS in the 1995 postseason.  His career OPS was .878 compared to a career .717 OPS in the postseason.  That is not clutch.  That barely exceeds Mark Lemke's post-season OPS.

[AHF]

33 minutes ago, hawksfanatic said:

No, it's more likely that it only appears that the team is less clutch than others. And if you go across all other cities they will also come to the same conclusion that they are "less clutch" than others. It's a similar phenomenon to the Friendship paradox that most people have fewer friends than their friends have (on average).

It only appears that Atlanta is less clutch than others. They're all around the same amount of clutchiness.

There have been studies showing no real proof in the data to support clutch in baseball or basketball.

 

I always like looking at Kobe.  He is clutch right?  He is right until you actually look at his shooting %s in "clutch" situations.  Lots of big moments that are memorable but the numbers are not very good when viewed in their totality.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

There have been studies showing no real proof in the data to support clutch in baseball or basketball.

 

I always like looking at Kobe.  He is clutch right?  He is right until you actually look at his shooting %s in "clutch" situations.  Lots of big moments that are memorable but the numbers are not very good when viewed in their totality.

Well see, it's nice that there's a definition for "clutch" so you can actually evaluate whether or not it exists .... (and lack of evidence doesn't prove that clutch doesn't exist, it's just hard to convince anyone that it does exist).

I was also considering trying to explain the "clutch" aspect in how gamblers will recall a win more vividly than a loss but for whatever reason I cannot remember what that term is. But the idea being that this rolls in the opposite way, the painfulness of being on the losing end of a clutch situation sticks out more than those times that the team was really f***ing clutch. See: that Al Horford tip in for last years playoffs. That was f***ing clutch, no? So why don't we add that to the ledger of clutch events going on here? Ah....that's right, because in the next round the team lost so then that play was more/less "whatever dude, you didn't win it so it's not really that clutch huh."

This kind of stuff happens when you frame sporting events in an all-or-nothing context. Did the team win the whole thing? Yes? OK - "clutch." No? "Then f- it, we're cursed!!!" ~29 other teams, hence why there's so many that feel unclutch.