Dennis Schröder: Dwight Howard Only Plays Well Against Former Teams

[davis171]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

What would you call Plumlee in this scenerio??  I guess we have a 12 Million dollar floor buffer than don't work.  And over his time left on contract, we will pay Plumlee more than we would have paid Howard.  That's the dumb shit. 

 

 

No the dumb shit is judging a trade like that less than a year in. TBH if you look Dwight has actually hurt the Hornets in +/- from last year. Plumlee's contract is significantly easier to move than Dwight's. 20+ million a year is an albatross that almost never comes off clean so saving an extra 5+ million in cap space for now while we look for options for Plumlee makes sense for a hawks team that isn't competing regardless. the money saved per year is more valuable than the length imo.

Edited March 22, 2018 by davis171

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Charlotte.. also has NO SHOOTERS.  They rank 21st in 3pters per game and 26th in FG%.

That means that their outside shooting and midrange shooting is crap.   Rebounding they are 4th in the league and Off Rebounding they are 10th.   That means that they get a lot of second chance shots and take away a lot.. but if you're 26th in the league in FG% then those 2nd chance shoots goes for shit.   The proof in that is that they are 23rd in FGs made. 

Think about that.. they are pulling down offensive rebounds better than 2/3rds of the league and yet, they are scoring worse than 2/3rd of the league?

 

 

 

Agreed.  Good 3pt shooting is much more impactful than what Dwight does in the league where it is today.  Also agree with the premise that Dwight is at his best when surrounded by a bunch of good shooters (like pretty much every good interior player).

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

What would you call Plumlee in this scenerio??  I guess we have a 12 Million dollar floor buffer than don't work.  And over his time left on contract, we will pay Plumlee more than we would have paid Howard.  That's the dumb shit. 

 

 

We wanted Dwight gone because he was an add for a team to win now and not an add for a team that was heading to the draft at the end of the year.  If he had caused us to win 3 more games this year we would be in a coin flip for the 8th or 9th pick right now and he would likely be frustrated with the team and his role.  That would all be a bad thing.

Plumlee is a just filling space.  We will end up paying Plumlee $37.5M.  We would have paid Dwight $47.3M.

[Diesel]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

We wanted Dwight gone because he was an add for a team to win now and not an add for a team that was heading to the draft at the end of the year.  If he had caused us to win 3 more games this year we would be in a coin flip for the 8th or 9th pick right now and he would likely be frustrated with the team and his role.  That would all be a bad thing.

Plumlee is a just filling space.  We will end up paying Plumlee $37.5M.  We would have paid Dwight $47.3M.

if you are dismantling a team, you do it right and you do it so that the team has a better future.   Dwight would have been gone but we will still have that waste of roster space taking up 12 more million in capspace. 

[davis171]

12 minutes ago, Diesel said:

if you are dismantling a team, you do it right and you do it so that the team has a better future.   Dwight would have been gone but we will still have that waste of roster space taking up 12 more million in capspace. 

If it is so easy to move him without bringing cap back why haven't the cap strapped Hornets dealt him? The hornets were dangling Kemba to get rid of some of their overpaid players for draft picks and expiring deals.

[Diesel]

33 minutes ago, davis171 said:

No the dumb shit is judging a trade like that less than a year in. TBH if you look Dwight has actually hurt the Hornets in +/- from last year. Plumlee's contract is significantly easier to move than Dwight's. 20+ million a year is an albatross that almost never comes off clean so saving an extra 5+ million in cap space for now while we look for options for Plumlee makes sense for a hawks team that isn't competing regardless. the money saved per year is more valuable than the length imo.

No.. This Dumb trade can be judge now.   That's BS to have to wait.   We could have moved D8 for better.    Period.   Instead, now, it will be 2020 and we will still be paying Plumlee 12.4 Million dollars for doing absolutely nothing but repping Duke.   Please spare me the BS. . 

 

[davis171]

Just now, Diesel said:

No.. This Dumb trade can be judge now.   That's BS to have to wait.   We could have moved D8 for better.    Period.   Instead, now, it will be 2020 and we will still be paying Plumlee 12.4 Million dollars for doing absolutely nothing but repping Duke.   Please spare me the BS. . 

 

I just don't see Dwight as an asset on his current contract so we disagree don't cry.

[AHF]

My view is that Dwight was likely viewed as a negative asset at his price but Plumlee was an even more negative asset.  I don't know why we weren't the ones improving our draft pick if anyone was going to do that but I do think the matchup of them having Dwight going for the playoffs and us getting the waste of space while tanking was aligned.  Didn't like us giving up draft value to make it happen when it felt like we should have picked up some value.  I am guessing we thought we could flip for another asset.  Still not sure why nobody wanted a guy shooting .555 TS% in our distressed offense.  He is shooting .590 TS% in 16 games for Philly.

[Diesel]

40 minutes ago, AHF said:

Agreed.  Good 3pt shooting is much more impactful than what Dwight does in the league where it is today.  Also agree with the premise that Dwight is at his best when surrounded by a bunch of good shooters (like pretty much every good interior player).

Good 3pt shooting is not much without rebounding and inside scoring.   When We lost to the Cavs in the ECF, when the Cavs beat the Warriors in the finals... the only real reason was INSIDE Shooting, rebounding, and those other things that enhance 3 pt shooting... and vice versa. 

The Kings are  ranked 2nd overall in 3pt%... yet they only have 23 wins. 

[Diesel]

20 minutes ago, davis171 said:

If it is so easy to move him without bringing cap back why haven't the cap strapped Hornets dealt him? The hornets were dangling Kemba to get rid of some of their overpaid players for draft picks and expiring deals.

They have their own thoughts as far as how they want to move forward.  Unlike Hawks fans who are trying to make D8 to be the scapegoat in Charlotte, maybe Hornets FO feel that D8 is not the problem.  If Kemba is so great, why hasn't he been able to elevate this team out of the lottery prior to D8 getting there?

[Diesel]

19 minutes ago, davis171 said:

I just don't see Dwight as an asset on his current contract so we disagree don't cry.

An asset to WHO?  And for what?

If you're talking about to a tanking team, I agree.    For that matter, try getting rid of Dennis, Plumlee and Baze too while you're at it.  

Davis this is where your argument loses it's appeal.

What difference does cap mean if you're tanking??  What good FA wants to come to a tank team? I guareentee you that when FAcy Period opens up, we can offer 150 Million dollars to whatever free agent that you think is good and they will turn us down.  Straight like that.   Why?  Because they know that we're not going anywhere. 

So all of your huffing and puffing about cap and contract means ABSOLUTELY Nothing.   We're going to spend that same money on Plumlee and some other ham and egger who couldn't hold Dwight's jockstrap and you won't complain one bit...  Why because you don't care about team building or getting better as we move forward.   Your objective is to lose and have the best draft lottery party you can.. and if we miss the player in the draft, we'll do it all over again next year.  And we will be turrible for years to come and be one of those teams that never gets mentioned as a contender but only mentioned as a feeder team to other teams who know how to build teams. 

 

[davis171]

29 minutes ago, Diesel said:

An asset to WHO?  And for what?

If you're talking about to a tanking team, I agree.    For that matter, try getting rid of Dennis, Plumlee and Baze too while you're at it.  

Davis this is where your argument loses it's appeal.

What difference does cap mean if you're tanking??  What good FA wants to come to a tank team? I guareentee you that when FAcy Period opens up, we can offer 150 Million dollars to whatever free agent that you think is good and they will turn us down.  Straight like that.   Why?  Because they know that we're not going anywhere. 

So all of your huffing and puffing about cap and contract means ABSOLUTELY Nothing.   We're going to spend that same money on Plumlee and some other ham and egger who couldn't hold Dwight's jockstrap and you won't complain one bit...  Why because you don't care about team building or getting better as we move forward.   Your objective is to lose and have the best draft lottery party you can.. and if we miss the player in the draft, we'll do it all over again next year.  And we will be turrible for years to come and be one of those teams that never gets mentioned as a contender but only mentioned as a feeder team to other teams who know how to build teams. 

 

George Hill starting PG for the Cleveland Cavs signed for 10 million with the Kings... I don't see Dwight on a contract worth a 1/4 of the cap is valuable to anyone... at 10-15 hell yeah. Idk I see it as we traded a negative asset for a less expensive negative asset.

Edited March 22, 2018 by davis171

[davis171]

29 minutes ago, Diesel said:

They have their own thoughts as far as how they want to move forward.  Unlike Hawks fans who are trying to make D8 to be the scapegoat in Charlotte, maybe Hornets FO feel that D8 is not the problem.  If Kemba is so great, why hasn't he been able to elevate this team out of the lottery prior to D8 getting there?

They are worse this year what do you mean lmao!

[AHF]

47 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Good 3pt shooting is not much without rebounding and inside scoring.   When We lost to the Cavs in the ECF, when the Cavs beat the Warriors in the finals... the only real reason was INSIDE Shooting, rebounding, and those other things that enhance 3 pt shooting... and vice versa. 

The Kings are  ranked 2nd overall in 3pt%... yet they only have 23 wins. 

You know the Kings are 25th in the league in made 3pters, right?  

The teams that are top 10 in both 3pt made and 3pt% are the Warriors, the Cavs, the Rockets and the Celtics.  Those teams have the #1, #2, #4, and #5 best records.  The #3 record is Toronto which is #4 in 3pt made but not in the top 10 for %.

Only 1 team in the top 14 for rebounding is among this group, the #4 Celtics.  None of the top 14 teams in offensive rebounding are among the top teams in the league.

[davis171]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

You know the Kings are 25th in the league in made 3pters, right?  

The teams that are top 10 in both 3pt made and 3pt% are the Warriors, the Cavs, the Rockets and the Celtics.  Those teams have the #1, #2, #4, and #5 best records.  The #3 record is Toronto which is #4 in 3pt made but not in the top 10 for %.

Only 1 team in the top 14 for rebounding is among this group, the #4 Celtics.  None of the top 14 teams in offensive rebounding are among the top teams in the league.

Lol the starting center on the best team in the NBA rotates between Zaza and Javale Magee

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, davis171 said:

George Hill starting PG for the Cleveland Cavs signed for 10 million with the Kings... I don't see Dwight on a contract worth a 1/4 of the cap is valuable to anyone... at 10-15 hell yeah. Idk I see it as we traded a negative asset for a less expensive negative asset.

George Hill lost his position to Shelvin Mack Last year and that was before Exum got back.  when his free agency came up, he was a cheap pick up for anybody. 

[davis171]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

George Hill lost his position to Shelvin Mack Last year and that was before Exum got back.  when his free agency came up, he was a cheap pick up for anybody. 

You have a foggy memory I guess... he averaged 35 mpg 15ppg and 38% from 3 in the playoffs last year in 8 games(started all 8).... but if that's being benched I guess I'll agree.

Edited March 22, 2018 by davis171

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

You know the Kings are 25th in the league in made 3pters, right?  

The teams that are top 10 in both 3pt made and 3pt% are the Warriors, the Cavs, the Rockets and the Celtics.  Those teams have the #1, #2, #4, and #5 best records.  The #3 record is Toronto which is #4 in 3pt made but not in the top 10 for %.

Only 1 team in the top 14 for rebounding is among this group, the #4 Celtics.  None of the top 14 teams in offensive rebounding are among the top teams in the league.

Why limit it to just OFFENSIVE rebounds.   Offensive rebounds mean missed shots.  GS is #3, PTL is #4, and Houston #11 and Boston - #6 in Defensive rebounding. It's a part of their success. 

The bottom teams in Def. Rebounding:  Sacramento, Memphis, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Us, and #6 = Orlando. 

 

 

[AHF]

Just now, Diesel said:

Why limit it to just OFFENSIVE rebounds.   Offensive rebounds mean missed shots.  GS is #3, PTL is #4, and Houston #11 and Boston - #6 in Defensive rebounding. It's a part of their success. 

The bottom teams in Def. Rebounding:  Sacramento, Memphis, Milwaukee, Minnesota, Us, and #6 = Orlando. 

 

 

I didn't limit it to offensive rebounds - talked first about total rebounds.  Only Boston is among the top 14 teams in total rebounds. 

3pters have the biggest correlation for any of these statistics.  Here are the stats for the league's elite:

Houston Rockets - (per game) #1 in 3pt made, #17 in total rebounding

Golden State Warriors - #7 3pt made, #15 in total rebounding

Toronto Raptors - #4 3pt made, #16 in total rebounding

Boston Celtics - #5 3pt made, #7 in total rebounding

Cleveland Cavs - #3 3pt made, #23 in total rebounding

I do agree that defensive rebounding is more important than offensive but I was thinking Dwight was near league leader in offensive.  He is top 5 in both so my premise was wrong there.

[Diesel]

What contributes More to losing?  I introduce.. THE BOTTOM Six.

 

Team                Def Rebounding           3PTers Made

Memphis            #29                              #24

Phoenix               #17                              #23

Atlanta               #26                               #10

Orlando             #25                               #17

Sacramento       #30                               #25

Dallas                #21                               #6

 

It don't take a whole lot of figuring here.  You can be pretty good at making three point shots, but if you can't get a rebound, you're sunk.