Will the offensive scheme be considered to be changed?

[JTB]

Here’s a knee jerk reaction from me lol but at the same time I’m actually kind of serious about this based on how the upcoming off season plays out with where we draft and all .....But I am wondering what it will take for Schlenk and LP to consider a offensive scheme change.

I like what the current scheme  on offense Is! When I sat down and really focused on rewatching plays over and over again once JC returned and also looking back at games from last year I can see what we are trying to do offensively and as I’ve mentioned in other post of mine I am understanding the concept a lot better! It’s not tough to get but it was tough when certain players were not on the floor....I’m  Not sure if LP has a name for it (8 second offense???? Heard him reference that before ...I don’t know lol)...but nonetheless it’s a great  scheme offensively that can put up a ridiculous amount of points BUT we of course need the wing players to continue to develop and continue to understand their role (which for me I’m not worried about the rookies....They’ll get it as times goes on)... but what I’m more so concerned about in this scheme is with the center position as you all probably have already realized the big men in this scheme are extremely important and you can’t just have just any ol thing out there! What’s needed at center for the scheme is going to be a hard to find because he also has to have length and defense due to trae and Collins defensive limitations and if you ask me Schlenk likely ain’t finding that guy! I’ve said this like a 100 times now.

 

To conclude this knee jerk reaction:

If you can’t build something fully outright like you planned then perhaps reassessing the offense scheme have to really be looked in to!...its no different than Schlenk making it seem like we are looking for dribble, shoot, pass players only with how often he mentioned it (not saying he actually said that word  “only” but it felt like that’s what he meant)...and that’s the thing we can have an actual plan based on how we want to look as a team moving forward but I don’t think that plan should include hard to find rare talents and skills at certain positions.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

(BONUS QUESTION)

if we had a choice between Anthony Edwards and James Wiseman who do you take if you’re in Schlenk shoes and why?

[NBASupes]

I'll answer the last question because I just think the issue we have is just experience with the rookies and defense with other youngins as well as not enough vets.

I am not feeling either Edwards or Wiseman.

Edwards reminds me of John Wall from the stance that he is a slasher with great athletic ability and size for position that really can't shoot at this stage and his defense is extremely lethargic. He also needs the ball in his hands to be effective. He will produce to a degree but it won't be effective and I honestly think we are a bad situation for him. Honestly, I would love to see him with Detroit or Charlotte. Maybe even San Antonio. 

Wiseman doesn't really have modern NBA center skills but to me he is Cam Reddish of this class from a center stance. I loved Reddish and really don't like Wiseman and you ask why? Because what I want from a center is just much different than from a wing.

Wiseman like Cam has elite physical tools and talent. But what does he do good at? In EYBL, he had a historically low TS. Some will say his college sample size looked good but my arguement he is he played v. Horrible centers and his sample size isn't useful. 

He lacks defensive versatility which Cam had. The question is simple, Wiseman moves well, has decent lateral footwork and is a tremendous athlete. That's true. Another thing is Cam his first 5 college games wasn't a good defender, couldn't Wiseman improve give time? Its possible  but the issue is his instincts never looked good on D. Wiseman tools does give you hope he could be a great defensive player one day but his motor is hit or miss. Cam motor rans very well on defense. 

Offensively, he is very talented but he's not a finisher, not a shooter,  not a slasher, not explosive and not the best ball handler for a big. What does he do that translate to the modern NBA? 

You take into account he is 7'1 245, fast as David Robinson, agile and strong, you do have trouble passing on his potential but his floor is low. He's not polished at all. Robinson was consistent and polished as a rookie. Best rookie season in the last 35 years. Only Jordan had a better rookie year. 

So with Wiseman, it's like Reddish but for me worse. You betting on potential. The question Wiseman lovers say which is different than Reddish is, we seen guys as talented as Reddish fail as wings, how many guys have failed who are as talented as Wiseman at center? No one. 

Because it's rare for centers to be this talented. He is literally as talented as Towns just different and more raw. 

For me, it's about the modern NBA. He just isn't it. His screens aren't good. Plays soft, not explosive, not a shooter, his defensive effort is inconsistent, motor runs low, does he love Basketball? Some people questioned this about Reddish but I really believe it's an issue for Wiseman. The question is, centers just aren't that talented and when they are, they usually reach their level if they are talented enough. 

I'll rather Okongwu but I get why some will take Wiseman. 

[terrell]

Okungwu is intriguing..Trade down to 5 again with a team that needs a pg.. Gain another 1st and take OKungwu? If TRavis does this(pass on Edwards and Wiseman) the board will go CRAZY..lol

Edited December 30, 2019 by terrell

[terrell]

23 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I'll answer the last question because I just think the issue we have is just experience with the rookies and defense with other youngins as well as not enough vets.

I am not feeling either Edwards or Wiseman.

Edwards reminds me of John Wall from the stance that he is a slasher with great athletic ability and size for position that really can't shoot at this stage and his defense is extremely lethargic. He also needs the ball in his hands to be effective. He will produce to a degree but it won't be effective and I honestly think we are a bad situation for him. Honestly, I would love to see him with Detroit or Charlotte. Maybe even San Antonio. 

Wiseman doesn't really have modern NBA center skills but to me he is Cam Reddish of this class from a center stance. I loved Reddish and really don't like Wiseman and you ask why? Because what I want from a center is just much different than from a wing.

Wiseman like Cam has elite physical tools and talent. But what does he do good at? In EYBL, he had a historically low TS. Some will say his college sample size looked good but my arguement he is he played v. Horrible centers and his sample size isn't useful. 

He lacks defensive versatility which Cam had. The question is simple, Wiseman moves well, has decent lateral footwork and is a tremendous athlete. That's true. Another thing is Cam his first 5 college games wasn't a good defender, couldn't Wiseman improve give time? Its possible  but the issue is his instincts never looked good on D. Wiseman tools does give you hope he could be a great defensive player one day but his motor is hit or miss. Cam motor rans very well on defense. 

Offensively, he is very talented but he's not a finisher, not a shooter,  not a slasher, not explosive and not the best ball handler for a big. What does he do that translate to the modern NBA? 

You take into account he is 7'1 245, fast as David Robinson, agile and strong, you do have trouble passing on his potential but his floor is low. He's not polished at all. Robinson was consistent and polished as a rookie. Best rookie season in the last 35 years. Only Jordan had a better rookie year. 

So with Wiseman, it's like Reddish but for me worse. You betting on potential. The question Wiseman lovers say which is different than Reddish is, we seen guys as talented as Reddish fail as wings, how many guys have failed who are as talented as Wiseman at center? No one. 

Because it's rare for centers to be this talented. He is literally as talented as Towns just different and more raw. 

For me, it's about the modern NBA. He just isn't it. His screens aren't good. Plays soft, not explosive, not a shooter, his defensive effort is inconsistent, motor runs low, does he love Basketball? Some people questioned this about Reddish but I really believe it's an issue for Wiseman. The question is, centers just aren't that talented and when they are, they usually reach their level if they are talented enough. 

I'll rather Okongwu but I get why some will take Wiseman. 

I wish OKungwu was 6'11/7'0 instead of 6'9. He has a long wingspan, but still. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, terrell said:

I wish OKungwu was 6'11/7'0 instead of 6'9. He has a long wingspan, but still. 

I agree. Then again, let's see what his measurements will be at the combine. I want to see his wingspan. 

[NBASupes]

In Baseball, they have this thing called ETA. It's where it talks about the readiness of a player year for this level of play in this league.

For Atlanta

Trae 2020 graduated early and shined in 2019.

John 2018 Polished prospect

Kevin 2019 polished prospect 

Hunter 2019 polished prospect 

Cam 2021 raw prospect 

Bruno 2021 raw prospect 

2020 draft

Toppin 2020 polished prospect 

Cole Anthony 2020 polished prospect 

Ball 2021 high ceiling prospect 

Edwards 2021 high ceiling prospect 

Okongwu 2021 high floor prospect playing center 

Halliburton 2022 adjustment to the league

Deni A 2021 polished prospect 

Hayes 2022 polished prospect 

Wiseman 2022 raw prospect 

McDaniels 2022 raw prospect 

Zeke N 2022 raw prospect 

[JTB]

@NBASupes I haven’t been that high on wiseman or Edwards either. Edwards has grown on me but the fit with trae in the back court isn’t one that’s going to gel. I don’t think trae or Edwards move greatly off ball but we do need another player who can go get a bucket outside of trae and the young man Edwards do seem to have a great scoring instinct (at least in college) 

wiseman is just too raw. He has potential like you said but he’s extremely raw. It’s going to take him a few years to develop. 
 

in all honesty Im all for a trade down if we get a top 2 pick ...I’m still high on cam being the future SG of the hawks with hunter at SF. For the center position I would be ok with dedmon and Len for the next 2-3 seasons 

[NBASupes]

Assuming KAT is available,  that pick, others picks and Collins are assets that should be available for him. 

For me: Trae, Cam, Hunter are untouchable. I would prefer to keep Kevin at all cost as well.

[JTB]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Assuming KAT is available,  that pick, others picks and Collins are assets that should be available for him. 

For me: Trae, Cam, Hunter are untouchable. I would prefer to keep Kevin at all cost as well.

If we can pair trae and Towns our offensive worries are over with!
 

But got dammit the defensive issues would really really set in! However if we can keep cam and hunter that would help the defense out big time . We’d then need another big who’s just mainly defense (maybe Noel) so I’m all for that plan.

i like JC but towns can flat out drop buckets with the best of em.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, JTB said:

If we can pair trae and Towns our offensive worries are over with!
 

But got dammit the defensive issues would really really set in! However if we can keep cam and hunter that would help the defense out big time . We’d then need another big who’s just mainly defense (maybe Noel) so I’m all for that plan.

i like JC but towns can flat out drop buckets with the best of em.

Any big who just rebounds, sets screens and defends in space works with those 4 guys long term.

[JTB]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Any big who just rebounds, sets screens and defends in space works with those 4 guys long term.

How far would you go into getting towns paired with Trae? 

like how crazy would you make a deal to get them together????....asking because it seem like a great plan that may at least catch the wolves attention but then you’d have to be so certain that trae and towns work out which shouldn’t be an issue honestly.

now that I’m thinking about it I’d go as far as offering Collins, huerter, both 1st rd draft picks for this upcoming draft and possibly a 3rd first rd pick in like 2024....and as long we can keep our cap space flexibility I’d do the deal

[NBASupes]

21 minutes ago, JTB said:

How far would you go into getting towns paired with Trae? 

like how crazy would you make a deal to get them together????....asking because it seem like a great plan that may at least catch the wolves attention but then you’d have to be so certain that trae and towns work out which shouldn’t be an issue honestly.

now that I’m thinking about it I’d go as far as offering Collins, huerter, both 1st rd draft picks for this upcoming draft and possibly a 3rd first rd pick in like 2024....and as long we can keep our cap space flexibility I’d do the deal

No Cam, Hunter, and Trae. Due to salary reasons, no Kevin either. Other than that, sky is the limit. Maybe no Wiggins either. Taking back Dieng is okay but Wiggins is overkill. This trade will likely eat up all of our capspace.

[JTB]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

No Cam, Hunter, and Trae. Due to salary reasons, no Kevin either. Other than that, sky is the limit. Maybe no Wiggins either. Taking back Dieng is okay but Wiggins is overkill. This trade will likely eat up all of our capspace.

Right I would hope we only want KAT in the deal. 
They can keep Wiggins and pair him with Collins along with the draft picks

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, JTB said:

Right I would hope we only want KAT in the deal. 
They can keep Wiggins and pair him with Collins along with the draft picks

If you are trading KAT, you want to get rid of any negative asset as possible. Wiggins might be tough though. He might kill the positive value.

[JTB]

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If you are trading KAT, you want to get rid of any negative asset as possible. Wiggins might be tough though. He might kill the positive value.

Yeah it’s a no deal if they put Wiggins on us.

unfortunately...

i just don’t believe Wiggins and KAT can help us win games. Plus to me Wiggins just don’t fit with trae and kat. 
 

it’d be a desperate move to pair those 3 together ...on one hand I’m not sure if I’d criticize Schlenk cause well this is the hawks franchise but on the other hand I know it’s a move too risky with a high chance at failing to have trae, Wiggins, KAT....then again good thing I’m not the gm cause I might just make that move lol 

[NBASupes]

25 minutes ago, JTB said:

Yeah it’s a no deal if they put Wiggins on us.

unfortunately...

i just don’t believe Wiggins and KAT can help us win games. Plus to me Wiggins just don’t fit with trae and kat. 
 

it’d be a desperate move to pair those 3 together ...on one hand I’m not sure if I’d criticize Schlenk cause well this is the hawks franchise but on the other hand I know it’s a move too risky with a high chance at failing to have trae, Wiggins, KAT....then again good thing I’m not the gm cause I might just make that move lol 

I agree. 100%

Dieng is a reasonable ask to me.

[AHF]

Dieng and Wiggins are toxic assets.  Taking one or both of them on means Minny would have to forego picks and/or players they would otherwise want to get.  They would kind of have the choice of a combo meal:  you can get three of these young players, these draft picks or unloading these toxic contracts.  But as you pick from one category, options in the other two categories come off the table.