Hawks didn't make their lists!

[noble]

On 9/28/2023 at 9:51 AM, Diesel said:

This is not an attack on you @noble ,  This is questioning your position....

What makes a 1 in your world @noble??

Obviously it's not accomplishments or what a player does on the court.   It must be their measurables off the court.   Because anytime you care to consider accomplishments...

               

 

IF Trae Young is a 2, he is the most decorated 2 in NBA History!!!   GTFOH

It’s the ability to play elite on both ends of the floor or to be unstoppable on the offensive side. The issue is Trae isn’t efficient enough or consistent enough to be THE guy on offense and he’s awful on the defensive side of the court, a liability. If you want to be considered one of the best players in the league you can’t be a liability in any way. 

When he doesn’t have the ball he can get uninterested on the offensive end at times. The Celtics figured out to pressure him which led to a ton of turnovers. 
 

The real issue is due to his lack of length and defensive issues the team you need around him needs to be almost perfect to compensate. The margin of error is smaller just due to these things. It’s why I think he’s a top flight number 2 guy. 

 

[Gray Mule]

Total shocker!  What if, hold your breath, the plan is not what we all may think that it is.  Hawks have a new PG that they drafted that they are very high on.  He's bigger and taller than our present PG.  

Squawkers say we have a great PG who is short and can't/won't play a lick of defense.  Ask yourself, what would he be worth on the open market?  (I told you to hold your breath)  Impossible?  Nope!  Improble?  Perhaps.  Don't look too closely.  All the parts are in place for this to happen.  Insurance in case of injury?  Or something more?

Now everyone has something different to ponder on.  Don't think too much, else you might begin to believe!!

[Diesel]

On 9/30/2023 at 11:10 PM, noble said:

It’s the ability to play elite on both ends of the floor or to be unstoppable on the offensive side. The issue is Trae isn’t efficient enough or consistent enough to be THE guy on offense and he’s awful on the defensive side of the court, a liability. If you want to be considered one of the best players in the league you can’t be a liability in any way. 

When he doesn’t have the ball he can get uninterested on the offensive end at times. The Celtics figured out to pressure him which led to a ton of turnovers. 
 

The real issue is due to his lack of length and defensive issues the team you need around him needs to be almost perfect to compensate. The margin of error is smaller just due to these things. It’s why I think he’s a top flight number 2 guy. 

 

If that's your definition, then the league has lacked a lot of 1s.    But as I thought, you're just looking at measurables and not accomplishments and you're making up the rest.  Like efficiency.. Really?  Young has a PER that is higher than both Steve Nash and John Stockton.   But anyway...

Yeah, he's not long enough.   But by the time he finishes his career, barring in---y... He will finish as a top 10 PG in the History of the game. 

 

 

[noble]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

If that's your definition, then the league has lacked a lot of 1s.    But as I thought, you're just looking at measurables and not accomplishments and you're making up the rest.  Like efficiency.. Really?  Young has a PER that is higher than both Steve Nash and John Stockton.   But anyway...

Yeah, he's not long enough.   But by the time he finishes his career, barring in---y... He will finish as a top 10 PG in the History of the game. 

 

 

Let me clarify for you then. He isn’t consistently efficient. Of course I’m looking at accomplishments, you want to be considered a true top guy in the league you need to carry your team. And yea there aren’t a lot of 1s which is partially why the NBA is a mid product overall. 
 

I get it yall believe you can build a team around him as your top guy. Maybe you can but it has to be absolutely perfect of a build to compensate for his shortcomings. I’d love to see a true dominant player with Trae. Let Trae be the spot up shooting, drive and dish, pick and roll guy. Facilitate instead of be the top scoring option. 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, noble said:

Let me clarify for you then. He isn’t consistently efficient. Of course I’m looking at accomplishments, you want to be considered a true top guy in the league you need to carry your team. And yea there aren’t a lot of 1s which is partially why the NBA is a mid product overall. 
 

I get it yall believe you can build a team around him as your top guy. Maybe you can but it has to be absolutely perfect of a build to compensate for his shortcomings. I’d love to see a true dominant player with Trae. Let Trae be the spot up shooting, drive and dish, pick and roll guy. Facilitate instead of be the top scoring option. 

Given the standard you set out, I agree that Trae doesn't meet it.  He isn't overwhelmingly dominant on offense due to scoring efficiency and isn't a stud player on both sides of the court.  There are probably only a few people who do meet this standard but I've got no problem saying that Trae wasn't one of them last year or for the totality of his career to date.  Hope he gets there (by becoming overwhelming on offense - improved D would also be great but he will never dominate on that end).

[noble]

On 10/2/2023 at 11:21 AM, AHF said:

Given the standard you set out, I agree that Trae doesn't meet it.  He isn't overwhelmingly dominant on offense due to scoring efficiency and isn't a stud player on both sides of the court.  There are probably only a few people who do meet this standard but I've got no problem saying that Trae wasn't one of them last year or for the totality of his career to date.  Hope he gets there (by becoming overwhelming on offense - improved D would also be great but he will never dominate on that end).

It’s why I’ve long held the NBA and its parity and distribution of talent has been lacking for some time. 
 

This all said I do believe if you put a guy like that with Trae the Hawks would be one of the top teams in the league. I’m just not sure Trae without a perfect cast around him can be that guy in this era of the league. 

[Diesel]

On 10/7/2023 at 8:51 PM, noble said:

It’s why I’ve long held the NBA and its parity and distribution of talent has been lacking for some time. 
 

This all said I do believe if you put a guy like that with Trae the Hawks would be one of the top teams in the league. I’m just not sure Trae without a perfect cast around him can be that guy in this era of the league. 

Well Noble, 

Blame the league then.  It's watered down.   But hasn't it always been?  Hasn't it always been a mid product using your measures?

I mean, you want a player that is dominant on offense and defense.  There's really 2 or 3 that fit that bill in the history of the game.

Jordan and Kareem....  and maybe Duncan...  Otherwise, players lack something based on your measures.  Bird, Erving, and Magic all lacked defense.   Wilt was a terror on offense but a pussycat on defense.   Russell offense would put him in the same breath as Draymond. 

So yeah, we can spend all day talking about why we don't have more Jordan's and Kareem's.   By your measures those would be the only true 1s in history because the league is so mid. 

Again though, I don't know what you're comparing it to... there's always been flawed players that were considered greats... but... continue.

 

[noble]

On 10/8/2023 at 10:22 PM, Diesel said:

Well Noble, 

Blame the league then.  It's watered down.   But hasn't it always been?  Hasn't it always been a mid product using your measures?

I mean, you want a player that is dominant on offense and defense.  There's really 2 or 3 that fit that bill in the history of the game.

Jordan and Kareem....  and maybe Duncan...  Otherwise, players lack something based on your measures.  Bird, Erving, and Magic all lacked defense.   Wilt was a terror on offense but a pussycat on defense.   Russell offense would put him in the same breath as Draymond. 

So yeah, we can spend all day talking about why we don't have more Jordan's and Kareem's.   By your measures those would be the only true 1s in history because the league is so mid. 

Again though, I don't know what you're comparing it to... there's always been flawed players that were considered greats... but... continue.

 

I did say unstoppable on offense too, not just on both sides of the court. We haven’t had an unstoppable player since Nique. Maybe Dikembe on defense, but really having that guy on offense is a huge get. Now maybe if this team was all offense it would help with how mid at best they are on defense, but that’s not the case. I’d love to see us get a marquise player, those are hard to get, sure, but there’s way better than the players we’ve run through since we traded Nique for Manning. At least get close, ya know?

 

and I do blame the league for the product. I’m all for punishing players, not just front offices, for collusion.