Dwight Howard and Religion....Arrogance

[Lascar78]

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We don't live in a Muslim Nation nor do we live in an Atheist Nation

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I thought we were protected by a separation of church and state. Meaning that no religion takes precedence over any other. Christianity has no more right here than Islam. Many prominent americans have been atheists. So I don't really see your point. It doesn't matter what some founding fathers believed, and it doesn't matter what percentage of citizens are religious. btw, while the majority of the country claims to believe in god, but only roughly a third attend any kind of religious service regularly. But that also is irrelevant.

The definition of religion (I'll go with definition 1a of dictionary.com) is "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe". So basically, belief in God. separation of state and religion therefore implies separation of state and belief in God.

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1 Nation, Under God.....

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well that was only added 50 or so years ago during the commie witch hunt. And it's currently being challenged, and the verdict so far was that it has got to go.

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What is more repulsive for you...

Howard promoting what he believes or the Former Chris Jackson being kicked out of the league because he wouldn't stand up for the pledge of allegiance?

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First of all, there is no pledge of allegiance at basketball games. Also he was never kicked out of the league. Mahmoud Abdul Rauf wouldn't stand for the national anthem. I understand this concern. The US has commited more great acts than most nations, but they have also commited more atrocities than most nations. He sees the flag as representative of past and current oppression carried out by the US. He wanted to raise awareness, and help people see that the US needed to change their attitude. I don't see it that way, but I think he had genuinely good intentions in trying to help prevent current and future oppression, particularly in the middle east.

So the two cases are different in this way:

-abdul rauf feels like he is forced to show respect to a flag that he does not respect on a nightly basis. So he decides that he doesn't want to be a hypocrite and starts not standing. Eventually he conceded and agreed to stand for it, but make a gesture of reading the koran as he does it, to show support for what he feels is oppressed muslims

-howard just feels like he should promote his religion every chance he gets.

These are 2 very different scenarios. It's kind of like one is provoked and the other is not. Both are taking advantage of their position to let others know their views. I think Abdul Rauf's stance was much more political than religious, which is equally inappropriate. I find them both annoying. However I can respect the fact that if a flag represented something I despised, I would not stand for it.

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So yes, in actions, everybody promotes what they believe. Hakeem would fast for his Holy month. Some would look at that as him promoting what he believed... I'm sure his teammates knew and knew why. I'm sure if they asked him, he would explain it to them... Is Hakeem Wrong for that?

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this is completely different and irrelevant

No he didn't go out of his way to do this. I never saw him bring up islam a single time. Only times I even heard him mention it is when a reporter would ask him if it was affecting his play. This is not promotion. This is a religious tradition that happens in his home. Every muslim does this every year. No different than a catholic not eating fish on friday. Or any christian having a christmas feast at home. No different than the mormon jazz owners who can't make it to weekend games. He didn't bring this up at work at all. Again, I don't mind religion popping up now and again when it's particularly relevant to the game. I don't want somebody bringing it up all the time just for the purpose of trying to convert people.

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Why then do you think Howard is wrong for what he feels?

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Again, I'm not sure you're listening. I don't care what he feels. He can be as religious as he wants and that's fine by me. He can be a hindu, a satanist or a hare krishna and I'm cool with it. Just don't tell me about your religious views in all of your basketball interviews. And don't announce that you're setting out on a mission to convert people and add your religious symbol to the NBA logo.

Do you see the difference here?

[ATLien_]

Why should he not be able to say what he wants about his religion? Are you saying he should be censored? Rather you are religious are not matters little to me. You speak of having the right of not having religion shoved down you throat, well what about his right to express his religion?Does he not have the right to say these things without people jumping down his throat?

If he had said I want to put a naked lady on the nba logo ,or if he had said I want to take the whole team to get drunk this would be a null issue. Why?

Honestly I don't want a religious debate, but people say things I don't want to hear all the time and thats their prerogative. I respond by moving away from them or ignoring them. I don't whine and complain about how they shouldn't say that and how their forcing something down my throat. (When there are more things forced upon us against my religion than for it)

To be honest many comedians, talk show host, athletes say more offensive things and noone cares.

As for your muslim situation, It honestly wouldn't affect me one way or the other. SAR was muslim and I never said one bad word about it. I never said he was corrupting the team or anything of that nature. However, if I want to acknowledge God in all I do, and give him thanks for it why should it bother you? It's Howards life and he is going to have to answer for his life not anyone elses, so let the man live his life the way he wants. Grow thicker skin, I learned to.

[Lascar78]

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Why should he not be able to say what he wants about his religion? Are you saying he should be censored? Rather you are religious are not matters little to me. You speak of having the right of not having religion shoved down you throat, well what about his right to express his religion?Does he not have the right to say these things without people jumping down his throat?

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I never said he should be censored, or that he doesn't have a right to say whatever he wants. I don't believe in censorship of any kind. I'm saying it's awkward and he should be repectful and keep his religious advertisment separate from his hoops career.

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If he had said I want to put a naked lady on the nba logo ,or if he had said I want to take the whole team to get drunk this would be a null issue. Why?

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If he said he wanted to put a naked lady and people thought he was actually SERIOUS about it, of course it wouldn't be a null issue, people would ridicule and condemn him. but of course no one would ever seriously want to do that

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Honestly I don't want a religious debate, but people say things I don't want to hear all the time and thats their prerogative. I respond by moving away from them or ignoring them. I don't whine and complain about how they shouldn't say that and how their forcing something down my throat. (When there are more things forced upon us against my religion than for it)

To be honest many comedians, talk show host, athletes say more offensive things and noone cares.

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Again, it's not what he says, it's the when and where. People pay comedians to hear them rant about mind provoking things, including poking fun or promoting various religions, races, or other sensitive issues. People pay talk show hosts to engage in conversation about controversial issues. That's why it belongs there. I would have no problem with him being on every talk show 24/7 talking about his faith that's fine. Just don't tell me that I need to find God when being interviewed in a post game interview

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As for your muslim situation, It honestly wouldn't affect me one way or the other. SAR was muslim and I never said one bad word about it. I never said he was corrupting the team or anything of that nature.

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He never brought it up. That's my point again. I don't recall any NBA player ever bringing up his religion regularly. Other than maybe thanking God. However Howard is saying he wants to promote christianity in all his actions and interviews etc... That's very different than just being a very religious person

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However, if I want to acknowledge God in all I do, and give him thanks for it why should it bother you? It's Howards life and he is going to have to answer for his life not anyone elses, so let the man live his life the way he wants. Grow thicker skin, I learned to.

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Honestly man, I have as thick a skin as anyone. And my whole family is Christian. It's not like I feel like I'm being violated or anything. All that's gonna happen is every time he goes on a rant I'll roll my eyes. And to tell you the truth I bet he'll grow up, and he really won't be as bad at this as he says he's gonna be now.

The point is he shouldn't be bringing it up while he's at work. If I was at work and my boss was talking at a meeting, and he all of the sudden started telling us about how we need to follow Allah, I'd feel like it was inappropriate. If I was at school and the teacher suddenly said, oh by the way you really should all follow the Bhudda's teachings, I'd feel it was inappropriate. would you? You shouldn't be bringing up religion when you're on the job, and being paid to do something else. We are treating this differently because:

a)we tend to forget that they are on the job and think of pro athletes more as buddies / role models than hired pros

b)we live in the bible belt and there's such a high rate of christianity that it doesn't bother christians

Again, it's not a huge deal, just an awkward annoyance. It was brought up as a topic and I'm posting my opinion.

btw, I don't think this would be a detriment to howard's career, especially in atlanta, given the fact that it's in the bible belt and all

[Vol4ever]

My father is a minister and we could go for hours on this subject.

In my opinion the Media to include TV and print, goes to no end to criticize religion in any way possible. Why? We are now living in an American society that is quickly turning to Socialism.

I suggest those who would want to keep our country free study what socialism is all about.

We all have our beliefs and I'm glad to say "I am on the Lord's side"

[Diesel]

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thought we were protected by a separation of church and state. Meaning that no religion takes precedence over any other. Christianity has no more right here than Islam.

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Mainly, we live in a nation that does not give you freedom from religion. You may want to think that and you might try to live that, BUT.... The majority of this nation believe in God. Notice, I didn't say Christianity has more rights than Islam. I said we don't live in a muslim nation.

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Many prominent americans have been atheists. So I don't really see your point. It doesn't matter what some founding fathers believed, and it doesn't matter what percentage of citizens are religious

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One nation Under God.

In God we trust.

Sworn IN

The belief in God is why this nation was Founded and is integrated into just about everything this nation has done.

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-howard just feels like he should promote his religion every chance he gets.

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If Howard is giving credit to God for his abilities and opportunities. I don't see a problem. If he is living his life as an example of his belief. I don't see a problem. What's the problem? IS the problem that he's not a Thug somewhere trying to influence young people (inadvertantly) to go out and beat your wife and commit crimes and get into fights in the bowling alley?

[ATLien_]

It's all good man, but Reef did refuse to stand during the pledge that one time. What do you consider work? I was under the impression that Howard was in an interview when he said this. The only time he is working is when he is on the basketball court or in the practicing facilities imo. The interview was not the case. The guy asked him a question and he answered it as he saw fit.

NBA players get payed to play basketball, they are not trained public speakers. I realize it may be awkward for some,but for others it may be a blessing. So who's rights should be protected?

All in all eventually he won't say things like that because he will get tired of getting bashed by people who have tolerance for everthing but religion. It's ashame because in a since that is censorship.