The fat lady is warming up humbled Lakers

[Diesel]

he doesn't know it nor does he understand it. He thinks that it's something he's supposed to do to appease the coach. He doesn't embrace it in the idea of winning. That's why he will always be behind Jordan. Jordan used the team concept and made Journeymen into champions.

When you look at the Bulls, there was nothing special about them except Jordan, Pippen, and Toni. And before Toni, Jordan and Pipp did it all with Smoke and mirrors. Jordan knew how to get Horace Grant into the game. Jordan knew how to get Kerr into the game. Jordan knew how to allow Pipp to take over a qtr. So much so that Pipp is a top 50 player too.

But once Jordan hit his prime, he learned how to control the game even when he wasn't putting up the big numbers... and still how to put up the big numbers when his team needed him.

But the other main difference is the changing of MJ's game. He went from being a Dr. J. Clone to being something totally different. He was the first Post up Gaurd. He then perfected the fall away shot. He mastered scoring while being double and tripled teamed. Kobe has yet to taste that. Once Kobe leaves Shaq foo.. He will face a lot of distressing situations when defense focuses on him. However, unlike now.. He won't be able to take a break and let Shaq be the man. He's going to have to learn how to elevate those around him.

Tmac lacks desire. Yes.

But I say he's better than Kobe because at least I know what to expect from him under pressure. Kobe under pressure could be Jordan.. But signs are showing that Kobe under pressure may be more like Chris Webber. A very talented player, but will blink under pressure.

[Diesel]

We're going to have to follow the career of James/Wade/Mello to see if anybody can do it for 48 mins like mike did.

[KB21]

That's the quality Michael Jordan had that Kobe Bryant doesn't have. Kobe has the ability to be that type of player, but his desire doesn't lie with team success. He's still young, and he will eventually get it.

LeBron James is going to pass him up as the best player in the game though. At 18 years of age, LeBron is already showing the Michael Jordan/Magic Johnson ability to make mediocre players around him better.

[Traceman]

selfish when he was Kobe's age. Jordan evolved into the great player that we all respect over time. A lot of people thought he was a ball hog who shot too much. Mike didn't really become a guy who strived to make his teammates better until Phil came along. Even after Phil came along, Mike would have his moments where he was going to take over the game no matter what Phil or anyone else said but that attitude that NO ONE could stop him is what made him great.

I know its hard to believe but Kobe is only 25. Come back in two years when he enters his prime and we'll see if his name should even be mentioned in the same sentence with Jordan's. Right now, it shouldn't be.

As for T Mac stepping up under pressure, WHEN? I can only remember T Mac making ONE big shot in the clutch and even then, his team STILL lost the game. He ALWAYS gets called upon but he rarely delivers. Conversely, Kobe delivers in the clutch far more often than not. Kobe takes a lot of bad shots but when the game is on the line, there is NO ONE in the game today who I'd rather give the ball with a chance to win. Comparing Kobe to Chris Webber in the clutch is a joke! Kobe has hit more big shots in the clutch THIS SEASON than Webber has hit in his entire career!

[kudzu23]

Kobe should have went to college and played ball for 4 years....

[Diesel]

Jordan learned the team concept before Phil... It was really his desire to be better. If you recall it led him to play PG for about 1/2 a season. And he did very well. He put up abou 8 apg. BUT after Stockton/Payton/ and KJ ran circles around him... He gave it up but he learned how to make those around him better.

When I talk about Kobe being selfish.. I'm not talking about a play or 2, I'm talking about personality in general. He hasn't changed much since coming into the league (personally). In HS, they say he would allow his team to get behind so that he can bail them out. That is something that is ingrained into his personality. Jordan didn't have those personality flaws. Jordan was all about winning.

Here's the contrast...

Jordan was the ultimate Competitor. Whatever it was, Jordan wanted to win. It was his personality. Through and through. That's why you hear about Jordan hitting Kerr in the eye over a card game. That's why you hear about Jordan betting on golf shots ($100,000 a hole) that's why you hear about Jordan going to Las Vegas and gambling a lot. He was/is so competitive that he can't/couldn't rest. That was bad in a lot of ways, but it was good in this one way. It gave him the drive to do whatever it took to win.

Kobe is not ultra competitive. In fact, Kobe is more like a person who wants recognition. I think he is got ego, but it's not about winning for Kobe. It's more about looking good. Listen to the press conferences. Kobe doesn't seem to take exception to losing. He treats it like... Oh well we lost.

As far as Tmac under pressure. I'm talking about the pressure of being targeted by most defenses he face. Kobe doesn't get targetted much. However, if you want an example of Tmac rising. Look at the playoffs a few years ago. He went on a streak of scoring 50+ against the Hornets. My concern about Tmac is that he won't easily evolve his game. He's not as competitive as Jordan either. It's not a bad thing, but Jordan's competitiveness caused him to change his game to cover his weaknesses. When he lost his speed advantage, Jordan learned how to post up. When he lost his athleticism edge, Jordan learned how to hit the fall away. He was always constantly bettering himself.

Like i said, we have to look to the new guys to see if any of them has that. The new guys and KG.

[OGRat]

You guys have been hard on him, but I think the jury is still out on Tmac. The guy needs some players around him who can at least hit the a shot when he passes the ball to them. He can create all he wants, but if no one will hit the shot, what more can he do? He's ended up having to score the bulk of the points for his team. This does not win games, because b-ball is a team sport. Ask Jordan.

[Traceman]

Saying that he's not is just ridiculous. I don't know of ANY player in the league who's more competitive than Kobe. In fact, it is his competitiveness combined with his immaturity that gets him in trouble sometimes. He thinks that he is the best player in the game and he doesn't believe that anyone can stop him from scoring whenever he wants to. That misguided belief sometimes leads to him taking ridiculous shots as he tries to get his shot off over 2 (or 3) defenders.

As for T Mac, no question the guy is a terrific player and he can go off for big scoring nights like he did against Charlotte. But what does he do with the game on the line and his team needing a bucket? That's what I'm talking about. When has he came up big in a pressure situation?

[chillzatl]

Jordan didn't do jack [censored] by himself. He did it with teammates that had the skills to complement his own and weren't scared to take the shot. You put him on a lakers team with NO outside shooters and nobody else with the balls to take a shot, he would NOT win. I don't care if he had shaq or not.

The pistons showed everyone in the league how to beat this lakers team and any team of this type. Let shaq have his, put 3-4 guys around Kobe and know that nobody else has the guts to shoot the ball. I don't care of it's kobe or jordan.. Jordan would end up doing the exact same thing kobe did. He would take as many shots as he had to because he would recognize that his teammates can't score and are too scared to shoot the ball.

you seem to forget how little jordan won before he got teammates around him who could score and weren't scared to try. Before he got those things he was nothing more than a chucker with great stats.

[Wretch]

He was a young player with a very big ego trying to make his mark.

Jordan made his teammates better - not the other way around. Stever Kerr? John Paxon? Craig Hodges? BJ Armstrong? Bill Winnington? Will Purdue? Scott Williams? These guys are any better than this Laker's supporting cast? And the Lakers have guys who can hit the outside shot, but they didn't.

But to hell with an outside shot, if (and when) Jordan gets flooded by defenders, he would zip that ball into Shaq with who to cover him - unless you're saying the Pistons would be allowed to have 7 guys on the court...

No, Jordan did not win it by himself. That's a foolish point to argue because nobody could do that. It takes a team to win basketball games. However, MJ only had Pippen on offense and (later) Rodman on defense. And everyone saw the extent of Scottie Pippen without Michaeal Jordan - both in Chicago and when he left. There was nobody out there that drew attention away from Michael that allowed him to dominate the game. It was the other way around. MJ drew so much attention that it opened up the game for everyone else on the court; but the biggest factor in his game was not his dominance - it was his ability to use that dominance to get everyone else involved.

Against these Pistons, Jordan would have scored his points on penetration and fall aways. But when they were forced to double or triple, he would have picked them apart. And we're not even going to get into what his defense would have done against Rip or Billups. Michael Jordan, Shaq, and this Gary Payton would have destroyed this Pistons team.

This isn't even worth debating.

[Weez]

I hate it when people disrespect Scottie.

[Diesel]

Jordan had 2 scorers when the Bulls were their best. Pippen and Toni. Pipp was a good player who's game was magnified because he played with Jordan. Pipp had good skills as a ball handler and a scorer. Toni was a carbon copy of Pipp. Good ball handler and scorer. Pipp and Toni never spent long stretches in the game together.

However, the point is that for most of his career, Jordan only had Pippen. He had Horace, BJ, Paxson, Kerr, Wennington, Cartwright, Longley, Williams, Blount, ... Most of these guys were JOKES. They were like Basketball outcast who developed into a specific role. Their games were magnified by Jordan's dominance of any given game.

Look at Jordan's last game for the Championship against Utah. No Scottie or Toni... Jordan put the team on his back and rode them into the championships.

I hate to disrespect Scottie but Scottie was a regular season all star. In the playoffs, Scottie pulled some of the biggest disappearing acts this side of Kobe 2004. You must have forgotten the migranes and the backaches.

The honest truth is that if Jordan would have been in Kobe's place.. First off, it would be Jordan's team not Shaq's and Jordan would have made Shaq Better...

Detroit took advantage of the Lakers inability to be a team. The original Jordan rules had that very aim and they failed because Jordan's game became well rounded.