BHD- Why I do what I do.

[Diesel]

Hey BHD,

The reason why I often put trades on the trade board is because I have been where you and some here are. Happy with what we got and hopeful. However, age and experience have taught me this...

Never be satisfied with just enough to get you in. Often times in the past, when I was more excited about Nique, Battle, Rollins, Willis, and Doc... I thought that we had a chance to win it all. But we were a flawed team even back then. Back then good solid mentally tough teams won it all.

Welp, Like I said, it taught me to never be satisfied with just enough to win a game or 40 game or make the first or second round of the playoffs.

When I look at this yrs Hawks... I see hope for getting to the playoffs (maybe) but I also see that we are flawed. We have about 10 SFs but none of them are good enough to maintain us all yr and through the playoffs. For instance:

1. Toni. Toni is great when he's healthy... Just what we need offensively. BUT Toni gets injuries. IN fact, he's expected to miss games because of his injuries. That spoils the continuity of our team.

2. CC. Another often injured player. And while CC may have the heart to be a good player, he lacks the ability.

3. Ira. Good defensive player but he's Ty Corbin Jr. Offensively, he's not a shooting threat. Teams will double down on SAR and force TCJ to beat them when the games mean something. I don't believe that he can.

4. Glover.

I would be very happy if this yr we played Glover as a 2 DJ as a three and take what we get. Howevr, Lon would never do that. He has no trust in Glover. I believe Glover has much star potential but to bring it out, Glover must be the focus (1st or 2nd option) of the team. Look it over. He was dominant at GT because he was a first option. He dominates Summer Leagues because they make him the first option. IN the regular season however, Lon has his sitting on the three point line waiting to take his shot. If you want to talk about Stiffling a player... Lon does it by making our players conform to his System.

SO, what we need is either:

1. A new coach.

2. A trade for players that would fit this team better than what we have.

My trades of the day are not always serious...But the purpose is to make people think... I get tired of visiting a Hawks board and seeing somebody say...

"Hey let's trade Hendu, CC for Allen Iverson."

First rule of trade is that you always trade what is wanted. We have some unwanted players on our roster and it would take a wanted player to make those trade work...

So, I'm somewhat serious when I say: Theo for LO/Battier.

I'm somewhat serious when I say: Theo/CC for Big Dog/EJ.

I'm somewhat serious when I say: Nazr/Hendu/Toni/CC to Portland for Pippen, DD

I'm somewhat serious when I say: Nazr to PTL for Anderson.

The motive is always the same:

1. Get us the right player.

2. Get us future Cap money.

3. Get us out of those horrid contracts.

or

4. Get us a player with mucho potential.

The biggest debate yet is:

SAR/DG/Toni to Phoenix for Outlaw/Penny/Matrix/Stoudamire.

That trade was merely a thought on the potential of Stoudamire. For those who said that SAR is not better than MATRIX or even not much better than Matrix... They are smokin crack.

Almost as fair is SAR for Matrix/Stoudamire. But to say that shows why the other parts of the deal helps Phoenix so much...

However, what Did I accomplish by bringing that up?

I sparked NEW THOUGHT. Now people are talking about how Good is SAR?

Oh, BTW, SAR was a Label that was Diesel given. Before I started using it, everyone called him REEF. I do that sometimes to see how far the names go. Check out that Phoenix discussion! Even they say SAR now. Hell even Denberg has used SAR in his articles. I say that to say people read Hawksquawk. Same thing happened with "LO". Everybody else in the world calls him REN but if they've been to hawksquawk... You might find some Lo's as in Lazy Lo.

But I do what I do to spark NEW Thought....

[andycard69]

SAR is the man for this team down low and our #1 option. JT is #2 b/c he can shoot and drive. DJ and Glover will try and fight for who is the third option b/c neither is a complete offensive player. Glover cant shoot and DJ cant drive to the hole. At this point I would rather has DJ as the 3rd option b/c he spreads the floor so SAR and Theo can do more inside.

[Guest Walter]

There aren't enough funny faced emoticons to express the emotions I feel...

In reply to:

---

"Oh, BTW, SAR was a Label that was Diesel given."

---

I remember you saying you gave 'Lo' his name. You were laughed off this sight you moron! What a farce you are, 'D'. A trained seal, a clown.

...

So, you "notice we are flawed" despite us having the most injury plagued season in the league last year and perhaps in Hawks history and despite our being a young team regardless, whose two best players are 24(?), YET you couldn't see that the Hawks with Mookie, Smitty, Deke, (Laettner), and Lenny were horribly flawed after YEARS of early and ugly playoff exits and their obviously declining skills and vastly increasing salaries!?!

You were blind then so unless you've seen the light your crystal ball seems useless to you now.

Yes, this team has question marks and seems a player and/or a year or two away from contention. That may not happen. However, it very well may. It COULD happen this year if as many things go right for us as they went wrong for us last year. It CERTAINLY wasn't going to happen with the late 90s Hawks and the 90 year old Lenny.

W

[Diesel]

Well some things would have to change anyway.

I think that Glover could exist as a third option, but his game can't be what Kruger has him doing... Sitting on the three point line as if he is Rick Fox and shooting threes.

Better would be if Glover were to play the same type of game that Matrix does (if he's gonna be a third option). Let him work the baseline, get tip ins, anything else but put him on the three point line. It's killing his game.

[Diesel]

I was stating that I put it into use....

But about this statement.

In reply to:

---

So, you "notice we are flawed" despite us having the most injury plagued season in the league last year and perhaps in Hawks history and despite our being a young team regardless, whose two best players are 24(?), YET you couldn't see that the Hawks with Mookie, Smitty, Deke, (Laettner), and Lenny were horribly flawed after YEARS of early and ugly playoff exits and their obviously declining skills and vastly increasing salaries!?!

---

Huh? What the hell are you talking about. Your statements kill themselves.

First off, yes we are flawed. Being that we have a weak hearted C, a hole at Sf and other things.

2ndly, Had you been around or even remembered, I wanted us to make one more pickup during the Smitty Yrs to help our flaws.

I wanted us to sign Cliff Robinson.

I wanted us to sign Rick Fox.

I wanted us to sign Ced Ceballos.

I wanted us to sign even Williamson (big Nasty).

However, Babs MESSED UP. We could have gone so much farther if he had given Cliffy a chance. INstead he said that Robinson was too old or whatever excuse he used... How many good Season have Robinson had since.

In reply to:

---

You were blind then so unless you've seen the light your crystal ball seems useless to you now.

---

If you want to talk about true blindness, look in the mirror Moron. Aren't you the one who put your stamp of approval on the JJ/JR for Smitty trade? Don't you see how that trade RUINED this franchise? JUST LIKE I TOLD YOU IT WOULD!!!

Blind?

[Guest Walter]

Robinson, Rick "I Love LA" Fox, Ceballos, AND Williamson would not have helped that team be anything more than it was under Lenny. Hell, Ced and Williams were worse than Corbin just before his retirement. For christ's sake an ALL-STAR Laettner didn't help those Hawks contend!!!!!!!!!!!! God help you if you think otherwise. Within a year Smitty turned into a $9 million per 1 dimensional sub/role player, Deke is on his way down fast and his enormous contract continues to increase for 4 more years, and Mookie was all smoked up.

The Smitty for Rider/JJ trade resulted in a rebuilding effort needed to energize the franchise with new young talent. Otherwise, we would still be chewing on Smitty's contract, might have tried to resign Deke (YIKES!), and wouldn't have gotten DJ or SAR (with the #3 pick). We would have been a dead men walking team having won nothing of importance and just about to go through an even longer rebuilding period than the relatively rapid one we have gone through.

The Smitty-led Hawks were washed up. No rumored deal for Cedric Ceballos or the like was going to change that. At least we got to rebuilding earlier, with more draft currency, and without devoting anymore long term contracts to aging, washed up veterans, particularly those without any win anything of importance experience.

The worst case regarding the Rider trade was still a better case than staying pat with that team and banking on "Lenny and the veterans" doing squat.

W

[Diesel]

Dude, that's sick. Your whole line of Logic is Sick. There were much better trades that would have resulted in us being a much better team during our rebuilding moment. How many losing Seasons did the Lakers have to endure to get to where they are NOW? NONE. They've been a playoff team the whole time... From the time that Riley became Coach to NOW. You know why... Smart Management. Never did West say... OK we will take a dump on ourselves so that we can get higher draft picks. That's an insult to FANS and a disgrace to take that kind of attitude... However, I should have realized it means nothing to you because you never ever watch games.

BTW, those were not trades that we turned down idiot. Those were free agents we passed up.

Therefore... Put

Cliff Robinson with Mookie, Smitty, Deke, and Laettner and I betcha we go to the finals.

Put....

Ced Ceballos in place of Corbin... To suggest that Ceballos was Washed up is nonesense... He was a 20 ppg player at the time.

It's no use reasoning with somebody who think that losing is the way to win?

[Guest]

So you are saying that it's a good thing to get fleeced in what was the most disastrous trade in Atlanta Sports History?

Whatever you say, Mister Logic.

[Admin]

That was the worst trade ever for Atlanta fans. Manning totally screwed us and that killed our franchise.

[Diesel]

The Nique trade hurted so badly because there was nothing in exchange for Nique..

However, we had the TALENT to recover from the Nique fiasco. Even with Manning out of there. We were able to take Willis and get Long and Smith. Abd we had money that we wasted on Ken Norman.

BUT with the JR/JJ trade... What made it sooo bad was the fact that that was the yr we had 4 1st round draft picks. Name any playoff team that had four 1st round draft picks and ended up at the bottom of the division the next yr?? Horrible trade.

What did we get for Smitty??

Welp.

Didn't get Lo.... So that means that SAR was not from the trade.

We got JJ. Trade him and Lrob and Anthony... for BK.

We didn't get JT or Glover out of that trade.

We didn't get Toni or Theo out of that trade.

So basically, we got NOTHING from that trade.

My point is that there were better deals out there if we HAD to trade Smitty.

AND had we not traded Smitty, I'm sure that JT's development at PG would have gone a whole lot faster.

So this horrid horrible trade costed us the most important thing of all... TIME.

[Admin]

Yeah but didnt Manning leave as a FA the next year and we got nothing for him? We could have gotten much more for Nique I think than nothing.......dont u? I agree the Smitty deal was horrible and it really set us back, but I dont think it killed the spirit in Atlanta like that Nique deal did, and thats before Manning left us.

[Guest]

The Nique deal is still hurting us years later.People that

aren't Hawk fans knew the Nique deal looked bad.And

it has costed this team respect every since and it still

does to this day.

[MoonKnight]

the Nique trade. Ehlo (a great team player and solid bu) said after the trade that he didn't understand the trade. He said if it aint broke, then why fix it? If you recall, we were the top seed in the east (certainly in the Central) I believe at the time of the trade. If Nique was such a team chemistry killer, then why would Ehlo not want him traded. As soon as the team made the second round of the playoffs that year we could not score in the slow down half court series with the Pacers. If Nique were still on that team we would have no problems scoring in a half court type game. The trade was a very foolish trade that might have kept us from a shot at a championship that year.

[BlackHawkDown]

Thanks for explaining yourself. I agree with a lot of what you said.

[Guest Walter]

...without their best player coming through the draft or draft day trade.

We took a gamble with Rider knowing that worst case we get the currency to rebuild, a prospect we were trying, right or wrong, to avoid by trading for Rider and his huge upside given he could stay sane. Didn't work but we got our best player in SAR as a result of a draft day trade and we got DJ to top it off. WAY better than languishing on with Smitty.

The draft and draft day trades sounds like the only way to do it in today's NBA even moreso than the past as there hasn't been a rookie FA class worth a d@mn in YEARS (meaning there isn't the talent available to rebuild through FAcy), there isn't money to go spending on them anyhow (meaning there isn't the money to spend on the lack of talent available), and we get to keep our draft picks at rookie scale for up to 5 years.

Why are you adding Uncle Cliffy to Laettner? Laettner was gone long ago? Cliff had been a Sun, what, 2 years before we traded Smitty? Regardless, RUMORS don't win anything for you.

Also, Ced Ceballos was a 20 PPG scorer the year we traded Smitty?

Sorry Charlie.

You cry over rumored missed FAs like you cry over your hometowning fantasy trades. You are so ridiculous.

W

[Guest Walter]

If you think getting SAR and DJ as an indirect but forseeable result of the Rider trade is that bad then that is your peragative.

Unfortunately, the Nique trade left us with a veteran team (and a veteran-loving coach) good enough to play itself out of not only the draft lottery but the mid to high draft lottery. That was never going to happen ( and didn't happen) with a starting lineup of Bimbo, JJ, Mcleod/CC, ????????? (because we didn't have Lo and Hendu and Ellis were injured), and Deke.

Unless you are the Lakers, history dictates champions draft or trade their draft picks to aquire their best player. In fact, our top two players in JT and SAR were a result of the draft or draft day trade of our #3 pick. That's better than staying pat with Smitty or trading him for a lesser talent than Rider, having him play to his lesser talent, then playing to the same level of mediocrity the franchise had been in for almost a decade.

W