OMG! This Just In! Reef Is Not A Pure PF!

[Traceman]

We are in trouble folks. Our best player is too small to play PF. He can't guard any of the best PFs in the league by himself. what are we going to do? To make things worse, Theo is not a true Center, Ira is not a pure SF, DJ is not a pure SG and JT is not a pure PG. Oh no! Cancel the season!

This "pure" anything business is so overrated. Alan Houston is probably the "purest SG" in the NBA but does that make him a better SG than T Mac? Deke is a "pure Center" but I think Zo is better.

The bottom line is that JT is not only a good PG, he's a good basketball player and a damn good one at that. He more than holds his own against all the top PGs. Even if DD is more of a "pure PG" than JT (I still question that) he is nowhere near the basketball player he is and therefore, we are better off with JT/DJ (or DG) in the backcourt than we are with DD and Spree, DD and Brenty Barry or DD and any number of RIDICULOUS proposals I have seen for JT. Unless we are talking about bringing in a superstar or soon to be superstar for JT (REGARDLESS of position) all these trade proposals involving him need to stop.

I swear, if this board had existed back when Nique was here, half the board would have been trying to trade him! Just wait, Reef will be next. I can already see the writing on the wall. he's too small to play PF and not a good enough perimeter player to play SF, we need to trade him while he still has the value of an All Star. I wonder if we could get a true PF like Amare Stoudemire for him or maybe we could send him to Denver for Hilario.

[Guest]

It's funny because it's true.

[Teeareess]

[Diesel]

Maybe you don't understand it... BUt this is true... Championship teams have REAL PGs.

If there were no need for a real PG, then San Antonio could have kept Antonio Daniels at the PG and not gotten killed in the playoffs.

If there were no need for a REAL PG, then Miami could have gone with Eddie Jones, Jimmy Jackson Caron Butler, Grant, and Mourning.

If there were no need for a Real PG, then Orlando could go with Tmac, Hill, and Miller.

If there were no need for a Real PG, then LAL could have played Kobe, Fox, and Richmond at the same time.

However, the Difference is that The Point position (weather Gaurd or Forward) is the MOST IMPORTANT position on the court. It's nice to have good Big Man, but you don't need it. It's nice to have a dominant PF... But you don't need it. Hell it's really good to have a Sharp Shooter.... BUT you don't need it.

The reason why people are concerned with "PURE" in terms of PG is because if we are to be of Championship Calibre, we will need someone who can start the offense. A Floor General. Very important. A lot of times I hear people Claim JT as being a Leader... However, ON THE FLOOR when has he actually RAN the offense. When has he called Plays and made sure they were executed.

I grew up a Hawks fan but I was also a fan of the Bad Boys. Watching them with Zeke at the helm shows the epitome of what PGing is all about. Zeke didn't have to be the High Scorer but he was in control at all times.

[jaywalker72]

When you ask "when has JT REALLY run the offense", are you even fishing for an answer, or is simply a case of picking at an area so vague and so ambiguous in order to be able to refute any example?

With each game down the stretch, at the point, Terry drove the team offensively.

It was his speed that got the offense going early in the shot clock.

It was his ability that got defenders attention and helped others play better in the second half.

He got the ball moving in transition and used his speed to make plays happen.

He played the point well last season, after being plopped back into the role after the first of the year.

The stats have shown it.

The people who are at the games saw it.

The coaches have even said that Jason did a nice job at the point last season, especially considering the sudden role reversal from the first half.

If your point is that the Hawks need a "true" PG, fine. Make that point.

However, the current Lakers and the Bulls didn't have a true PG RUNNING the offense either. The Hawks aren't either of those teams, of course, but it does mean you don't have to have a true PG to win a championship.

But Diesel, making that point doesn't have to mean that JT was not good at running the offense last season.

JT often got his teammates involved early in those games in the second half of the season, often gathering his fourth or fifth assist before he got his fourth or fifth point.

We watched as the Hawks moved well with JT at the point, the offense flowed, and the Hawks controlled the game at both ends.

We also watched as the "true" PG, Vaughn, would come off the bench and often dribble the shot clock down to 10 or lower before getting off his first pass.

We saw him hesistant to feed the post, no matter who was in there.

We saw him make fourth quarter turnovers, also, and most of these were largely ignored by his supporters.

Vaughn hustled, was quick, and seemed to play good defense, but I think he greatly benefitted from what he was labeled as (True, veteran PG who does the point guard things better than JT) by the media (largely Rathbun and Glenn who thought Vaughn never did anything wrong) rather than actual on court performance.

That's what I saw, and it's from being at the games, but it's only an opinion, because this area of argument can only be opinion.

[Traceman]

is why they couldn't beat LA, not because Daniels was not a "real PG."

Your argument has no basis in fact. JT might not be a so called pure PG but he is a GOOD PG and he's certainly a better PG than any of the players that you named for ORL, MIA and LAL.

You said:

"However, the Difference is that The Point position (weather Gaurd or Forward) is the MOST IMPORTANT position on the court. It's nice to have good Big Man, but you don't need it."

If that's the case, why did LAL DESTROY NJ when they had the best big man in the NBA and NJ had the best PG in the NBA? Clearly the big man was more important.

In addition, why has no team with a dominant "pure PG" won an NBA title in 13 years? The Pistons were the last team with a dominant PG to win a title. The other teams have either had Jordan (6 times) or a dominant big man (Olajuwon twice, Duncan and D Rob, Shaq 3 times). Obviously, a dominant big man will beat a dominant PG in most cases.

[Traceman]

be no response because your post is right on point and D knows it!

[BlackHawkDown]

One thing. I actually would like to see reef log more minutes at SF. He would overmatch every SF in the league in the post and wouldn't lose much of an advantage in terms of speed.

[Guest]

Yes he would cause SF's can blow right passed him.Maybe

againest backup SF's.

[Diesel]

Down the stretch, It's good that Terry can take the ball in his hand and drive down the lane for either a score or a scoring opportunity...

HOWEVER, that is not RUNNING the offense.

We need something more tangible than that. We need him (AS OUR PG) to call the play to "RUN" the offense. We should know the difference between that and all these one on one details that anyone can see in any given pickup game.

In reply to:

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However, the current Lakers and the Bulls didn't have a true PG RUNNING the offense either. The Hawks aren't either of those teams, of course, but it does mean you don't have to have a true PG to win a championship.

---

I agree with that. The Lakers and Bulls didn't have true PG... BUT they did have a true Point position. Weather it was Pippen or Jordan calling the play or Kobe calling the play or Phil calling in a play from the sidelines.... Somebody was calling the play making sure that the play got ran.

Your question... "Does it Matter?" I believe so. I think it matters in that if we do make the playoffs, all this streetball will be easily SHUT down. If you doubt... Look at the Orlando Magic for the last 2 yrs. They have been ushered out of the playoffs because pickup game skills are easily countered in a playoff environment.

Now as a HAWKFAN, I'm sure you probably want to see us make the playoffs. MY QUESTION is... IS THAT ALL YOU WANT? Do you want us to make the playoffs and experience a first round defeat? Would that satisfy you? Would you look at us making the playoffs and say... "Good Job Babs?" If so, then we have become a sad franchise.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

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If that's the case, why did LAL DESTROY NJ when they had the best big man in the NBA and NJ had the best PG in the NBA? Clearly the big man was more important.

---

Is the best BIg man all that LAL had? The truth be told, NJ was beat before they even stepped on the court. It has nothing to do with how good Kidd is or is not, it has more to do with inexperience and believing the press. The true Bottom line is Jason Kidd is the reason that NJ was in the finals to begin with. However, was SHaq the only reason that the Lakers made it? I seem to remember a Lucky play made possible by the efforts of Horry. Let me put it another way.

If you put JT on the NJ nets..... And take Jason Kidd off the NJ nets... Do they make it to the finals?

[Guest]

If you put JT on the NJ nets..... And take Jason Kidd off the NJ

nets... Do they make it to the finals?That's not fair.Kidd is a top

10 player and Jt is not.PLAIN AND SIMPLE.Kidd is a top ten player

for other things than just his passing...he is also the best rebounding

guard in the league.

That's isn't a fair compare at all.

JT vs. Steve Nash or Bibby is alittle closer to being fair.

[JTFan31]

Oh yes Diesel you make perfect sense because Derek Fisher is a top notch PG, right? yea right, hehehe

Oh and wait and Ron Harper, Bj Armstrong and Steve Kerr are also top notch PG's the best in history right, Diesel? wrong again.

The reason the Bulls and Lakers are practically unstoppable was/is because they have the best of the best. So that pure position thing is crap. So lets see your analogy Diesel, Houston and Miller are better sg's than T-mac and Kobe, because they are better shooters? according to your posts thats what it sounds like, I have to laugh at that. lol

[JTFan31]

Ok lets see Diesel. You take Kidd out of NJ and have JT step in as the pg, would they make the finals? Maybe not because J kidd is the best PG in the league. So lets ask thsi question, because some times you really dont make any sense. Take Shaq out of Lakers and put in Theo, would they be champions, of course they wouldnt. Rest my case, your analogies dont make any sense.

[jaywalker72]

Yes, I want to see the Hawks make the playoffs this year, because it would be a strong indicator of improvement.

No, that's not where I ever want it to end.

Shoot, I get upset after every loss like everybody else in this forum. I take it hard, so no, unless we win them all, I am not happy.

But, if the Hawks make the playoffs this year, I would still see it as an improvement this season, even if I am disappointed about not going further.

For all you "if we don't win it all, we suck" fans out there, it's called perspective.

For the record, Terry did call the plays out there, and they did run them. Some of them required JT to take the ball back and create, and he did that.

He is still improving there, and I seriously disagree with moving him away from the point.

As we have said for over a year, if the Hawks are serious about winning it all, Terry must be the point guard on the floor.

It's no coincidence that the Hawks played better defense (less PPG), played more efficiant offense (less TO per game), and won more (19-17) after Terry and DerMarr made up the backcourt.

I have been against the Dickau signing, if it meant that the end was near for JT's PG career, as it means we are either settling for a small backcourt or trading JT.

For this season, Dickau will replace Vaughn as the backup PG, but that doesn't mean he isn't going to be the starter next season.

So JT has one season to show he is the man, else he moves back to SG, where his skills are not maximized.

It's a waste of a good core, as now we move Terry and Johnson over and make them less of a matchup problem at SG and SF, just so we can breathe easier that we now have a "true" PG.

No, D...The Ring is the Thing, which is why I am fighting so hard to keep JT at the point....IMO, it's our best move.

[Teeareess]

Are you saying that replacing Kidd with Dan Dickau (or Vaughn or Maloney or Knight, or whatever pure point guard you want to name) would make them even a playoff team. Kidd is the best point guard in the game. No other point guard carries them as far as he did.

JT does not have to be better than or even as good as Kidd to be successful. After the allstar break last season, JT did a great job at point. He created for others and himself, he hit clutch shots, and controlled the offense. He also got better as the season went on.

To give up on him, after a great 2nd half, because you were able to draft Dan Dickau doesn't make any sense.

[Guest Walter]

and 20.35% of its points in the last month of the season (after having readjusted to the switch back to the Pg position) using your own idea of what makes a "true Pg". I compared those stats like you did to the game's elite Pgs. Those stats showed that he not only can be a "pure Pg" (whatever that is) but that he can put up more of his team's assists than Gary Payton while nearly scoring as much as Payton.

Considering JT is such a team leader despite your pathetic attempts to construe him as otherwise, his expressed strong desire to remain here FOR HIS CAREER, and his character shown throughout the community, IN ADDITION TO YOUR OWN STATISTICAL ANALYSIS SHOWING HE WAS NOT ONLY A PURE PG BUT AN ELITE PLAYER AT THE END OF LAST SEASON, how can you show your face making such ignorant and pathetic arguments against JT as the Pg for the Hawks?

The question is rhetorical as you couldn't provide an intelligent answer anyhow.

W