What if....

[Nicholasp27]

guys, u can't argue with tmac/gohawks...he is like most average fans (and people like babcock and bilas) that only look at the surface...they can't analyze a situation or look beneath the current year's win totals...they make illogical inferences and deductions...

he actually wanted to win 30 games this year...he's ok with missing the playoffs and not getting an impact player year after year...he needs to follow any babcock-lead team (toronto right now, his bro is just like him) or the knicks

we are finally the worst team in the league for ONE year and he compares us to the clippers...

we just dismantled the team at the end of last year...yet he wants to talk records and talk about the clippers...

[Wretch]

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Eighth seed and four games and out 2 years in a row..Wow, what a juggernaut that is..

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But you want to keep a lineup of...

JT/Jax/Sura/Hendu/Nazr I'm guessing? And this is better than a 8th seed? Explain yourself if I'm wrong. Explain to me how far the talent that we COULD HAVE kept would have taken us. Please do that.

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We are going into his 3rd season..So you are WRONG there..

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Pete Babcock was the general manager of the Hawks from 1990 to 2003. He was fired at the end of the 2003 season. We have just finished the 2005 season.

Let me do the math for you.

Summer 2003 to Summer 2005 is equal to 2 years. So, BK has had, at an absolute maximum, 2 years to control this team - considering his boss was employed prior to that. Respond to this if you will and tell me something I'm missing here.

Secondly, in the Summer of 2003...BK inherted Pete Babcock's team. Not a team that he built - or was he supposed to MAGICALLY make them better THAT summer? He didn't even have a lottery pick to deal with because Babocock dealt it away - during his control of the team in 2003. The best he could do was a mid 1st rounder that BK used to draft Diaw. You could say he passed on Josh Howard...but then you'd have to say that everyone from about 10 on down passed on him too.

Thirdly, BK was an INTERIM GM for a team that he inherited without caproom, without a lottery pick, and without true ownership. What could he really do? So you can't really count the summer of 2003 as "HIS." He couldn't do anything.

Lastly, we haven't reached the Summer of 2005 yet. So you can only judge him on the moves that he made this season.

So you've got the 2004 season through the 2005 season. That is one year. We are coming into 1 1/2 years of BK managing the team and if you expect a winning team within that short of a timeframe then you are simply a clueless, f#cknut, troll.

(...and stop trying to lable me as some kind of BK lover. I like the moves he's made so far, but I'm not stupid enough to try and judge him on BARELY a full season of work.)

[tmac13]

Idiot..You answer every question(incorrectly) except how Detroit won a championship without a single lottery player that they drafted in the starting lineup..Then you try to turn 2 full years into one..BK was the GM when we drafted Diaw, when we drafted Hansen(who he let walk for NOTHING), and when we signed JT to a new contract and signed SJax..2 years is 2 years no matter how you wanna slice it..I don't want that old lineup back, but we are talking about overpaying for average players like Dalembert when we had an average center in Nazr who BK traded for nothing for no other reason than Nazr was a Babcock player..I appreciate the good things BK has done(gaining capspace and drafting Chillz and Smoove)..But that is all he has done so far. I don't consider trading any name player we have every season a great accomplishment..I don't think the AL for SJax trade was good at all..With our current team I would rather have SJax.The only difference in me and the rest of this board is that I see boths sides of BK..The rest of you seem to be so blinded by his bull that you can't see some of the bad moves he makes..Just call it fairly, BK is 80 and 240 as a gm..80-240...damn..Any of you wanna argue that Memphis would be a better or worse team with Bibby as point?..Was that a great move too?..Was dumping Nazr for a mid 2nd a good move?..Was letting Hansen walk a good move?..Was trading Walker for a likely mid to late round 1st next year better than keeping him to use in a sign and trade this summer a good move?..Was drafting Ivy over Duhon a good move?..Was not tanking more last year and ending up 6th instead of 2nd(1 more loss and we would have drafted 2nd) a good move?..So far, his sole good move is trading for the 17th pick last year and getting LUCKY that Smoove was still there..We would have been rid of the contracts of Henderson, SAR, Theo, and CC this year anyway..We would have had alot of caproom this year anyway..Getting it a year early was lost when BK didn't sign anyone last summer..

[tmac13]

I also don't want a 13 win team.I have never seen so many people thrilled to be bad..I really pray we get a top 2 pick, cause if we slip to forth and the best we can do is a very average Deron Williams type, this board may commit mass suicide..As far as Babcock goes, until his last 4 years here is was considered a very successfull GM..When BK build a team that is any better than we have had in the past I will give him all the credit in the world, until then just look at his goods and his bads..Its you guys that are blinded .Like I said above, for every good, I can give you a headshaker when judging BK's moves.

[chillzatl]

[tmac13]

Get what..PLEASE EXPLAIN IT TO ME>>Account for the GOOD things BK has done, but also account for the stupid things he has done..Just explain one of them to me..WHY was trading a serviceable center in NAZR for NOTHING a good move? Then turning around and getting the dynamic duo of Collier and DRob?..Make me understand the brilliance of that move and I will assume my BK ass kissing position like the rest of you.

[Wretch]

Hansen...

YEAH MAN! Let's keep Hansen! Yeah!

SJax, you're right. He did sign Jack that summer...for an NBA minimum, and got Al Harrington out of it. So...what's your point? He signed JT? What was he supposed to do? Let him walk? He signed him at a bargain deal for 3 years.

Where is the bad GMing here? I don't understand?

Secondly, Summer 2003 to Summer 2005 is 2 years. We haven't got to Summer 2005, so how can BK have managed the team for 2 years? When he makes management decisions this summer, it will be two years. Right now, it's about 1 1/2.

Thirdly, and what you are forgetting...is that he didn't inherit a playoff team. He inherited a lottery team, that didn't have a lottery pick, that was well over the salary cap. Not to mention the team didn't really have an owner at the time. F#cknut...what planet are you from? What did you expect him to do? What would you have done with that team that summer?

Now, let's breakdown the rest of your nonsense...

You'd rather have SJax?

That's cool. But would Jax rather have had you? The answer is no. Jax opted out of his contract to test the FA waters, and was going to get a good offer from someone who wasn't a lottery team. So whether or not you wanted to keep him is completely irrellevant. Knight made something out of nothing.

Letting Hansen walk...was it a good move?

BWAHAHAHAH! Does anybody care except you?

Was trading Walker for a draft pick a good move?

Well, we don't know where that draft pick is going to land first of all. And secondly, did you want to pay a max contract extension to Walker - who couldn't get us to the playoffs and would be past his prime at the middle of that contract? I didn't.

Was dumping Nazr for a 2nd round pick a good move?

I don't think so. I never said I approved of this deal. Not once. What I said is that Nazr is a role player. He might have helped us to get to the 1st round of the playoffs, which apparently matters to you, like the Grizzlies that Knight built, but that you don't like because he built them...I guess. You are a muddled ball of contradicting confusion. Figure out what you want... If you want a team that just makes the playoffs then respect what Knight for what he did in Memphis.

Was drafting Ivy over Duhon a good move?

Was drafting any of these guys taken after 10 over Josh Howard a good move? Then that means every GM that ever passes on a good player...sucks!

As far as Bibby is concerned...

Again, at the time nobody thought it was a lopsided deal. You probably didn't either. You just look at the outcome and say, "I would have made a better deal than that." That shows how much you know about the NBA. Secondly, people have gone out of their way to give you information about that deal...but you fail to read it and comprehend.

Summer 2003

Regular Season 2003 to Regular season end 2004

Summer 2004

Regular season 2004 to right now.

That is the timeframe of BK's resume. He inherited a lottery team. He didn't build one in 2003. Babcock did that and didn't leave him a draft pick that year. So the 2003-2004 season was on Babcock's shoulders more than anything...those losses were on Babcock because he built that team...or are you saying that BK somehow telepathically influenced Babcock into signing Theo Ratliff and SAR and drafting JT? LOL, BK was the guy who fleeced Bobcock into trading the #3 pick and LoWright for SAR. But he somehow knew that he'd be running the Hawks 2 years later and thought SAR would be the player for that team in 2003...so he is in fact responsible for his performance?

Good Lord man...what are you smoking while you type this crap up? Are you like 12 years old? I'm tired of talking to you. You are such a moron. Not because you are not knowledgeable about how NBA teams are run...but because you try to make arguements based on your own ignorance and inability to read.

You are either a moron or a troll f#cknut. Either way, I'd be foolish to continue this with you.

[Wretch]

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As far as Babcock goes, until his last 4 years here is was considered a very successfull GM..

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Now I understand completely!

[troubleman]

What is this fascination with Chris Duhon? The guy shot 35% from the field, averaged 6 pts, and dished out 5 dimes in 26 minutes a game. I know he is part of a Bulls team that is making a playoff run, but please don't over-inflate his value. I personally don't see anything special about his game that would make me say damn Billy really screwed up that pick, unlike taking Diaw over Josh Howard which still has me scratching my head.

With the right picks over the next couple of years, the Hawks will be playoff ready. I have stated this before, and apparently some people didn't get the memo, but the Hawks have only been "rebuilding" since the Reef/Theo trade. Before that, the Hawks always thought they were a playoff caliber team, which is why they always felt they could add a piece.

[tmac13]

Listen Wretch, whats with all the name calling..You are the one thats acting 12..You are like many others that are 10 feet tall and bulletproof behind a keyboard.If you want my number let me know, I will be happy to talk with you in real life..If I don't like our GM's track record that my opinion, just like you choosing to kiss his ass regardless of the outcome of his moves is your perogative.

Why draft Hansen to let him walk..Even Jaywalker thought that was a mistake because of a lack of communication between BK and Hansen.And sure SJax opted out of his lowpaying deal..But we never tried to give him a better offer..As far as AL is concerned, he is NOTHING but a role player..His numbers actually went DOWN after we traded Walker..That shows a ton about his ability to be the man on a team. Then, I never said give Walker a max contract extention, I said use him for a sign and trade like we did SJax..You loved it then, why not with Walker? As far as Duhon goes, many here were hoping for Duhon with that pick and we were scratching our heads when Ivy was announced..Turns out that most here were right, Duhon is a better player. Like I said, this is a basketball forum, not a streetfight, so if you choose to continue the namecalling, I will happily help you do it in person..If you are man enough that is..

[tmac13]

Look at his teams before his last four years, then speak..It is true though, he never had such a successful run as BK's 80-240 mark..Thats really something to strive for.Hey Wretch, I am in the plastics business, maybe I can have you a latex model of BK's ass made so you have one handy to kiss..

[tmac13]

That being said, I apologize for calling you an idiot..We simply have a difference of opinion.

[gohawks11]

"The team has a great foundation to build upon. They have Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Al Harrington, a top draft pick this year, and potentially two very high picks a year from now"

kbBatPCSON I agree we do, but i thought we want him to trade harrington. i bet these three will no longer be with us in 5 years.

[Wretch]

As for the name calling, you're doing it too! Lol...sorry it offends you man, but I just don't respect people with narrowminded opinions based on shallow "facts." I also don't think anybody in the NBA "sucks." I'd love to "suck" and get paid 500K to watch basketball games year round.

I also don't respect people that can form an honest opinion on a GM from a season and a half of dealing - especially considering the team he inhertied. I mean...that's just so shallow that it boggles my mind.

So, as long as you take an aggressive stance on that and ignore rational reasoning...I'll call you sh#t like f#cknut. What's really funny is in life, I don't have this problem. I run into people like you all the time and express my opinion the same way. The difference is, people don't argue as hard when they run out of sh#t to say in 2 minutes.

And that's really what you have - 2 minutes worth of debate in you. And you misunderstand so much. I don't kiss BK's every move. I even said in the last arguement that I didn't think the Nazr deal was good. But it doesn't matter because Nazr is a role player.

I don't think he's proved anything yet. I never said he did. I said he's made some good moves and I would rather have him than MANY of the GMs in the league. I wouldn't want a Clippers situation or a New York situation. I wouldn't want a Portland situation. The list goes on...

I'll take my chances with BK.

[Wretch]

You are right about one thing - I feel very confident in my ability to affect people through the written word. That would be all that you would be safe to assume.

You wanna fight me over some words? Some internet words at that... That's funny right [censored] right there. And sad.

I'll give you some life advice man. Hopefully, you're smart enough to take it.

A) If you wanna fight someone, don't tell them. Don't let them know that you're aggravated and don't act tough or strong.

B) Never assume anything.

As for me? I don't assume. I know who you are and why you're aggravated - and it goes beyond this conversation. I'll give you a heads up because you need it. I am a very grown ass man, with a family and a life. This sh!t doesn't affect me the way it does you. I have absolutely nothing to prove to you. Nothing. So, that whole "meet me outside" thing doesn't connect. BUT, just in case y'know Hawksquawk ever gets together for a Hawks game or something and we end up in the same area. You don't want to put your hands on me. You don't even want to stand next to me and act like you want to touch me.

[ATLJA316]

i have nothing to say but Wretch... your awsome

i couldnt agree more with everything you've said