Let's take a simple test here?

[chickenstanly]

"That's the bottom line.

"I pray that I'm wrong, But I'm sure I'm right!"

__________________

How are you sure?

I understand why you have come to your "opinion". You've done a good job of stating this.

To me, "sure" is something that you could only be --- after the fact?

And if you were indeed "sure", then praying that you were wrong would seem a bit silly, as it would make it impossible for your prayers to be answered.

Like saying, "I'm sure that the Spurs won the 2005 NBA Title, but I pray that the Pistons won".

[thesource966]

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I will be here regaurdless of how hard Marvin falls..

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Diesel oozes optimism

[Nicholasp27]

this walter vs childress all over again

we'll see if diesel is able to admit he was wrong...

[Lascar78]

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this walter vs childress all over again

we'll see if diesel is able to admit he was wrong...

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I think we all know the answer to that.

[Diesel]

regrets.... let me remind you Nick!

[Nicholasp27]

it took till february or so for chill to prove walter wrong

i'm not backing down after 12 games...

[Guest Walter]

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it took till february or so for chill to prove walter wrong

i'm not backing down after 12 games...

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I wanted Deng, Iggy, or Jefferson over Childress. I still do. Childress is a decent player, but no where near Iggy or Jefferson and not that close to Deng.

W

[Nicholasp27]

u said chill was a bust and not fast enough to be good in this league

by the end of the year, he had similiar numbers to deng/iggy and was on the rookie team

u spoke too soon about chill and were overly harsh on him from the beginning...by the end of the year u admitted u were wrong

it wasn't about chill vs iggy vs deng vs jefferson...it was about chill being worth of even a top 20 pick the way u were hating on him

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Almost every Hawk fan, outside of yourself, is convinced that this organization will HAVE to deal Harrington in Feb. or sometime before then. Maybe you're in denial about that, but the rest of us aren't. They HAVE to trade Al, or risk losing him for nothing. Most of us know this too.

This is the main reason why they took Marvin Williams, once Bogut was off the board.

I'll even admit that trading Al may be a mistake, but if he bounces at the end of the year, we have NO CHOICE. BK and Al can talk all they want about their relationship with each other. When a borderline playoff team or a low seed playoff team comes at Al with a 6 - 9 million dollar deal . . and we try to go a little over what they offer him . . he's taking their deal and leaving us like an ugly girl at the Prom.

And here's another angle that you and others haven't looked at with Al. He's playing with JJ, who arguably isn't even a better player than he is . . right now. I think most believe that JJ is more talented, but not necessarily playing better than Al.

Problem is . . he's being PAID like he's head and shoulders better than Al. And that could be a problem in the offseason, if we don't trade him before the deadline in Feb.

If I'm Al's agent, I'm coming at the Hawks just like this:

"Look . . you know my guy wants to stay here. But we can't stay here for cheap. Your organization hasn't been able to sign any unrestricted free agents since you've been here. And the guy that you did get last year, you had to give away not only money, but future players, in order to get him. So point blank, we're looking to get paid . . if we stay here. My client is better ( arguably ) than the guy you're paying the max for, so we want HIS kind of money . . or close to it.

Let's start with a 4 or 5 year deal worth 10 million a year, and go from there."

(( I can hear the Hawks fans now reading this, saying HELLLLLLLLLLLL NOOOOOO !! ))

It would be foolish for Al to re-sign with a bad, young team like this one, and not try to get as big of a contract as possible out of them. He's not re-signing for 6 - 7 million, if he has a similar offer from other teams on the table.

If BK TRULY wants Harrington around for the next few years, he should try to sign him to a 4 year - 32 million extension ( which is still too much, but probably necessary to keep him here and have him sign early before he tests his true market value )

If they fail to re-sign him, at least you have 7 million off the books to work with in the offseason. But I think most of us would rather have some players in a Harrington trade, than to take a risk and have to attract UFA's to the team in the summer.

***************

As far as Chris Paul goes, here's been my take on him since Day 1. If the Hawks organization wasn't convinced that he was the 2nd coming of Isaiah Thomas, they COULDN'T take him at #2.

Why?

Because in the last 25 years, only Isaiah, Kenny Anderson, Allen Iverson, Mike Bibby, and Jay Williams have been guys who were 6-1 and under, who have been taken within the top 2 picks. There have been other PG's taken that high, but they were all bigger, and most were very good defensively because of their size. ( Williams struggled big time on a bad Chicago team in his rookie year . . and it looks like Paul may very well be the next Isaiah. Oh well . . hopefully Marvin can be the next McGrady or James Worthy ).

( Note about the 1998 draft: That class that had a HORRIBLE Top 3 back in 1998 that saw Olowokandi go #1, Bibby #2, and LaFrentz #3 taken as "need" picks . . while guys like Antwan Jamison, Vince Carter, Larry Hughes, Dirk Nowitski, Paul Pierce went after them, but were all top 10 picks. By the way, there's a lot of high quality SF's/swingmen in that group )

If we draft Paul, he'd have to almost be the focal point of our offense. He just couldn't be a guy that managed the game. He'd have to provide some big time scoring punch along with it, for us to be competitive. If he averaged 17 ppg here, would that mean JJ's or Al's produciton would suffer, or could they play at the same level or even better?

And people just can't sit there and say that if he were here, things would be different. Paul's presence may help Al and JJ, but what about the other guys? Even with open looks, they're still not knocking down shots. A few of Paul's assists may lead to easy baskets, but he can't shoot the ball for Smoove and Childress.

And keep in mind, the JJ talk didn't start until AFTER the draft. So who's to say that we even go after JJ, if we draft Paul? We'd probably be looking at Eddy Curry or Tyson Chandler here.

With a team that is rebuilding like we are, it's more important for us to try to amass talent, at whatever position, than to try to fill a "need". You talk about a SF being a "dime a dozen". Well, there have been a lot of quality PG's taken in this league, that weren't taken in the top 5 of the draft just in the past 10 years.

- Hinrich and TJ Ford went #7 and #8 in 2003. In that same draft, Ridnhour goes #14

- Tony Parker went #28 in 2001

- Dre Miller went #8 in 1999

- Bobby Jackson, a guy I'd love to have here, went #23 in 1997

- Nash went #15, and Derek Fisher went #24 in 1996

- Damon Stoudamire went #7 in 1995

I won't deny that even I would liked to have Paul here. But like people said, it's over and done with. WE took Marvin, not Paul.

But this team is strapped for talent just about everywhere. For us to complete any type of rebuilding process, we're not only going to need a PG, but also a couple of superstar players to play with him. Without Marvin, we'd be counting on either Al ( if we're able to re-sign him ), or Smoove or Chill to become stars.

Here are some factors that has contributed to Paul's immeadiate success.

- Byron Scott is his coach, a guy who coached the Nets and Jason Kidd when they were winning the East.

- Speedy Claxton: A true luxury for the Hornets in the fact that he can push tempo just as well as Paul. That team doesn't lose a step if he plays the point for Paul. And they're damn good when he AND Paul handle the ball. They let him play the point, while Paul plays the 2. That's a luxury we just don't have here, seeing that we can't even get one of our PG's to even be consistent with JJ at the 2.

- PJ Brown: A wiley veteran who is tough defensively and can still rebound with the best of them.

If, like you say all the time, we can get a guy like Rajon Rondo to run the point, push the ball up the court, drive and dish, and drive to the basket and score, it'll only make the Marvin Williams pick that much better when he starts to be comfortable with the NBA game. We'll have our PG and our "potential" superstar.

Or . .

Maybe the Hawks could re-sign your boy Al, and get a guy like Claxton to run the squad next year.

My prediction is that if this team doesn't re-sign Al before Feburary, he'll be traded. We can't risk losing him for nothing, so we have to do it.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It might take the Phoenix game in order to show Woodson how we should be playing. That team, while it tries on defense, knows that they're not beating anybody with their defense.

But we try to play like the Pistons, and shut people down while running a half court game.

I hope Woodson will see that maybe this team just needs to play a little faster, instead of worrying about getting into our offense. Most of our guys are good enough ball handlers to at least push the ball into the frontcourt, then get it to one of our guards to possibly set the offense.

Phoenix will show the team how to play "team ball" . . then we'll beat them with a good 2nd half showing.

[Diesel]

Northcyde, you have a very Naive view of the draft and of FAcy...

First off, you don't pick a guy #2 overall (the highest pick in franchise History) because you think that you may lose a starter to free agency... That's the kind of stuff you do when you have a #24 pick not a #2 pick... At #2, you pick the player who will make you team a great team. If you already have 5 players with good potential at the position, you look over the next position of need...

Us picking Marvin was a statement that we believed he would be head and shoulders better than Paul, Deron, Chillz, and Smoove.... That's the bottom line on that.

About Al... You are a little Naive about that too.

You think that Al is just going to walk and we get nothing. I ask you to examine Stephen Jackson. The year we had Stephen Jackson, there were a whole lot of BS trades we could have made with him during the season. You see a player in the last year of his contract have lowered value in trade. The reason being is because teams think the same way you are talking... That they can scare the other team into trading their player because he's in a contract year. However, BK is smarter than that... BK knows that many of the trade propositions he will get for Al won't be worth 1/2 of Al's value.

Also, Look at the Market... How many teams will be going after Al in the offseason.. I mean seriously... you must consider supply and demand.

Al plays the most dime a dozen position in All of Basketball.

I have heard Chicago.. However, Chicago is also saying that they might trade Deng because they won't have space to play him after they get Peja... In other words, Chicago is not caring about Al. NY can only offer the MLE. Toronto will have no money either. Utah would have to move Boozer. And everybody else is pretty much at the cap. The only team with the money and the space to get Al is N.O. I would like to take my chances with that.. I think Al would work a SNT before just walking.

Let me explain why a SNT for all you who are Naive..

If Al Works a SNT, he gets paid Significantly More over the course of his contract. This is the same thing that Jax discovered. With his contract now, if he just leaves, he will get a contract with 7% raises. IF he does a SNT he gets a contract with 10% raises. What would you do? Would you be a bastard to the guy who brought you into the league and has been you friend... and take a pay cut... OR would you leave with a good relationship with your friend and in the same breath get the most money that you can make...

BOTTOM LINE...

There's no rush to trade Al... Unless a good deal comes along. And at his position, that's prolly not going to happen.

[Traceman]

$10M a season. He is a very good player and I think he MIGHT get an offer from a team other than us starting around $7M to $8M a season but I don't think he will get any more than that. What has he done to warrant more than that? He has proven that he can be a 6th man of the year candidate on a very good team and a solid, but not spectacular, starter on a horrible team. He is NOT going to get a huge offer unless we get a lot better all of a sudden. Who is going to give him big money? The Bulls might like to have him but they are going to have to pay Hinrich, Deng, Gordon and company at some point so I don't look for them to break the bank to sign Al. Portland already has Randolph and Miles signed to big deals. Who else is going to have the room who will give him a huge deal? I think Al knows full well that the best chance he has of getting a big contract is here and if we come in around $8M a season to start, I think he stays here.

[Guest Walter]

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it wasn't about chill vs iggy vs deng vs jefferson...

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Uh, that's exactly what it was about. Just like it is about Marvin vs Paul and Deron (among others).

Imagine if we had Iggy (or Deng or Jefferson) and Paul or Deron. I'd feel better right now. How many if any Hawksquawkers wouldn't?

W

[CrawDaddy]

Yes, I think we could have benefitted from having Paul here as the PG. However, I sincerely believe that with the right coaching and development, Marvin will be a true superstar in this league. He has a great looking shot for a guy his size. Once he "grows" into his body, learns to put the ball on the floor, and puts some muscle on, we're going to be happy we picked him.

Everyone on this board talks about patience. This is one guy we're going to have to be patient with. He's 19 years old for God's sake.

[Diesel]

Wow.

[Guest Walter]

I will say that MW producing 25% less than JS in either's respective rookie year or during the same age is even a disappointment to me. I thought MW was supposed to be more ready for the NBA having more skills entering it. Not so. That is a disappointment.

...But no more disappointing than drafting a Sf of MW moderate talent over IMO two of the three badly needed Pgs. Just a lame-ass move.

W

[Guest Walter]

He's always been better and has been 25% more productive as a rookie and at the same age. Is there something bigger than a "superstar"? How about mega-superstar? Which would you trade, a superstar or a mega- one?

W

[Yeti]

Are we running out of gas and have to resurrect old threads to make it look like anyone gives a #$@% about the Hawks?

[Diesel]

No. I just figured since people wanted to pull up my old post... Why not pull up an old Diesel post when Diesel was 100% correct...

I mean, if the guys want to spend the time to try to convince, themselves that Diesel was wrong or that he saw things differently... Why not show them when Diesel was SPOT ON.. and then let me watch them cower in silence...

Like i said then.. I don't need a pat on the back to be right. Right is right all by itself.

[Seano]

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No. I just figured since people wanted to pull up my old post... Why not pull up an old Diesel post when Diesel was 100% correct...

I mean, if the guys want to spend the time to try to convince, themselves that Diesel was wrong or that he saw things differently... Why not show them when Diesel was SPOT ON.. and then let me watch them cower in silence...

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Diesel, why is Diesel referring to Diesel in the 3rd person all of the sudden? What's going on, buddy? Is Diesel feeling alright?